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[turbob16hatch]

 found this thread to be quite funny, i though bisi made the best parts ever. huh?

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2700221

thats twice it has cracked and he says a section of the header is about to fall out/off.

here is the image flipped 180 to make it easier to identify


Here is a picture i found of the bisimoto d series header..... lol



discuss.....

ps: i don't have the balls to post this all over that thread so can someone do the honers...

[Corey]

as much as id love to bash bisi, i dont like bashing people for fab work failing like that because it can happen to anyone. ive had things that should not have cracked crack, and cannot figure out why it did so.

im wondering if he back purges those headers though, i would never build a 16ga manifold and not backpurge it, theres just too many welds to crack on such thin metal.

[turbob16hatch]

hey i don't normally bash people on fab also, but he has it coming.

[Corey]

if you wanna out him on blast just go there and respond

"give bisi a call, im sure he will fix all the issues because customer service is paramount at bisimoto"

[chris]

Bisi doesnt weld them so a 40 year old mexican is to blame.

[bigdaddyvtec]

You mean a 10 year old Somalian on a hooker and crack binge???

That thing looks more complicated than my Turbo manifold. LOL...

[turbob16hatch]

look at the nice o2 placement.... 

[Joseph Davis]

Tubular headers/manifold on a dynamically unbalanced inline four cyl will crack, period.  It's just a matter of time.  What I find interesting is that the bead cracked down the center, can any of you fab guys offer a fair analysis?

FYI, customer service is not paramount at Bisimoto.  Call David Peters at Over The Top in Knoxville/Marysville, TN, and ask him about the header that ran directly into the oil pan when fitted, and how Bisi spoke to him "like a dog" when he called about it.

[dvst8r]

...What I find interesting is that the bead cracked down the center, can any of you fab guys offer a fair analysis?

Looks like a lack of filler as all of the welds look concave. Judging by the poor consistency of the welds around it, I would guess that it is not back purged nor was there proper prep when starting out.

Looks like Brine04's OG CC-Fab ramhorn if they wouldn't have used any filler.

[turbob16hatch]

Yeah lack of filler/proper welding technique killed that header.

the guy just posted that the first header he receaved wasn't welded fully on some joints and it leaked everywhere. LOL

[Passenger]

Tubular headers/manifold on a dynamically unbalanced inline four cyl will crack, period.  It's just a matter of time.  What I find interesting is that the bead cracked down the center, can any of you fab guys offer a fair analysis?

Simply false. Just because 98% of all fabricators in the automotive sector don't actually have any idea how to make proper welds shoudln't condemn a style of manifold to imminent failure. I haven't had a single manifold, downpipe, exhaust etc fail ever, and I've literally made thousands.

I doubt that weld was properly purged. The bead is terribly inconsistent, along with the other welds you can see in the picture.

[Joseph Davis]

Right. 

[Passenger]

Right. 

You are going to doubt what I say because you lack knowledge on the subject?

[turbob16hatch]

Simply false. Just because 98% of all fabricators in the automotive sector don't actually have any idea how to make proper welds shoudln't condemn a style of manifold to imminent failure. I haven't had a single manifold, downpipe, exhaust etc fail ever, and I've literally made thousands.

I doubt that weld was properly purged. The bead is terribly inconsistent, along with the other welds you can see in the picture.

I agree in the fact that there are a lot of poor welders in the automotive field. simply no money in it 99% of the time so they go where the money is.

But JD has a point in the fact that the 4 cyl doesn't help anything, just look at supra ebay manifolds they stay together quite well compared to the ebay garbage the honda crowd has experienced.

Plus tubing isn't something that can hold up when welded using improper welding technique, etc...

There is a reason i don't touch n/a headers and thin wall manifolds. lack of skill to make it work with any reasonable amount of reliability.

[Corey]

pretty much.

if i had to guess on that header when that runner was built there was some shrinkage when welded and that stress pulling on the runner found the weakest weld, and probably at at hottest point (closest to port) and it failed. im sure its a mixture of poor welding and no backpurge. ill give the guy credit it looks to be assembled well and id hate to have to build one of those over complicated POS.

[Passenger]

pretty much.

if i had to guess on that header when that runner was built there was some shrinkage when welded and that stress pulling on the runner found the weakest weld, and probably at at hottest point (closest to port) and it failed. im sure its a mixture of poor welding and no backpurge. ill give the guy credit it looks to be assembled well and id hate to have to build one of those over complicated POS.

Agreed, most fabricators underestimate the importance of fit up on tube assemblies. If it doesn't fit like this:




than you don't weld it.

[Corey]

yep. i will usually tear stuff back apart if i assemble it and realize thereis a gap. especially tubing because filling gaps on such thin matl is hard as hell and looks like shit.

[danz]

dave im going to come out to your shop some day with a lot of beer, and you are going to teach me how to use filler with a tig.

i cant do it for the life of me, and im stuck doing fusing passes on pie cuts, that are always too hot, sometimes tuning into what appears to be vagina lips.  its crazy. 

[Passenger]

dave im going to come out to your shop some day with a lot of beer, and you are going to teach me how to use filler with a tig.

i cant do it for the life of me, and im stuck doing fusing passes on pie cuts, that are always too hot, sometimes tuning into what appears to be vagina lips.  its crazy. 

Deal.

[1991civicsi]

Nice work there. ^^

[Joseph Davis]

Right. 

You are going to doubt what I say because you lack knowledge on the subject?

On dynamic balance?  No, I'm pretty up on the subject.  You aren't the only master class welder I've spoken to in my life, and I'll bet Greg hermann knows more about machining/tool and die/etc than you do.  The problem isn't joining the pipe it's the fact that it's a load at the end of the pipe that's being shaken by a super complicated paint mixer.  You will get cracks, it has nothing to do with the weld joints, if any, and in fact they won't neccesarily manifest at the welds.

[malichite]

Its obvious there was an excessive lack of flux core on that joint and lack of turbo which lead to the ultimate dimese.  Any fabricator worth a shit knows you need to flux that shit, and a properly placed turbo would have helped support and lessen any vibration that would have caused those cracks.

Amatures!

[Joseph Davis]

Its obvious there was an excessive lack of flux core on that joint and lack of turbo which lead to the ultimate dimese.  Any fabricator worth a shit knows you need to flux that shit, and a properly placed turbo would have helped support and lessen any vibration that would have caused those cracks.

Amatures!

Sweet jesus.

All the tech debate aside, thank you for reminding us of the wholesome turbocharged goodness of our heritage.

[sewell94]

Its obvious there was an excessive lack of flux core on that joint and lack of turbo which lead to the ultimate dimese.  Any fabricator worth a shit knows you need to flux that shit, and a properly placed turbo would have helped support and lessen any vibration that would have caused those cracks.

Amatures!

Quoted for truth...............

[Passenger]

Right. 

You are going to doubt what I say because you lack knowledge on the subject?

On dynamic balance?  No, I'm pretty up on the subject.  You aren't the only master class welder I've spoken to in my life, and I'll bet Greg hermann knows more about machining/tool and die/etc than you do.  The problem isn't joining the pipe it's the fact that it's a load at the end of the pipe that's being shaken by a super complicated paint mixer.  You will get cracks, it has nothing to do with the weld joints, if any, and in fact they won't neccesarily manifest at the welds.

No, I was referring to fabrication. I will admit I am no master tool and die guy, I am working on it, but it will take years of time. I realize, understand, and partially agree with what you are saying. However I disagree in the sense that I know how it can be avoided by using quality material, techniques, and design. It is the ignorance of these three things that lead to this type of failure, the widespread of this ignorance has created the acceptance of " it will fail, it is a matter of when not if".

[arsenio]

Right. 

You are going to doubt what I say because you lack knowledge on the subject?

On dynamic balance?  No, I'm pretty up on the subject.  You aren't the only master class welder I've spoken to in my life, and I'll bet Greg hermann knows more about machining/tool and die/etc than you do.  The problem isn't joining the pipe it's the fact that it's a load at the end of the pipe that's being shaken by a super complicated paint mixer.  You will get cracks, it has nothing to do with the weld joints, if any, and in fact they won't neccesarily manifest at the welds.

No, I was referring to fabrication. I will admit I am no master tool and die guy, I am working on it, but it will take years of time. I realize, understand, and partially agree with what you are saying. However I disagree in the sense that I know how it can be avoided by using quality material, techniques, and design. It is the ignorance of these three things that lead to this type of failure, the widespread of this ignorance has created the acceptance of " it will fail, it is a matter of when not if".

bitch, that is JOSEPH DAVIS. your ignorance of that fact has led you to homosexual acceptance. you will eat a dick, its a matter of how often, not if.

[Corey]

arsenio, youve trolled much better then that. shame on you

[Joseph Davis]

Right. 

You are going to doubt what I say because you lack knowledge on the subject?

On dynamic balance?  No, I'm pretty up on the subject.  You aren't the only master class welder I've spoken to in my life, and I'll bet Greg hermann knows more about machining/tool and die/etc than you do.  The problem isn't joining the pipe it's the fact that it's a load at the end of the pipe that's being shaken by a super complicated paint mixer.  You will get cracks, it has nothing to do with the weld joints, if any, and in fact they won't neccesarily manifest at the welds.

No, I was referring to fabrication. I will admit I am no master tool and die guy, I am working on it, but it will take years of time. I realize, understand, and partially agree with what you are saying. However I disagree in the sense that I know how it can be avoided by using quality material, techniques, and design. It is the ignorance of these three things that lead to this type of failure, the widespread of this ignorance has created the acceptance of " it will fail, it is a matter of when not if".

I've seen some sweet bracing rigs, but ultimately it's a paint machine.  Metal fatigue sets in at some point.


Also, Matt, you have some interesting shit in your PB.

[88dx]

^^^^ LOL NooB

[nock]

just think what the world would be like without bisimoto

bisi invented the internal combustion engine
bisi discovered gasoline
bisi has counted to infinity twice
bisi can walk on water






































but he sucks at boat racing