:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: 89shithatch on August 03, 2009, 02:58:54 AM
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Started out over 3 years ago with a clean 1990 ef that i did a mild build and turbocharged. had fun with that.Parted it out, and the block ended up tossing a rod on the dyno the week after i sold it. Did the whole school thing got a job etc. Still in the pay off bills from school mode and love turbocharging and dont feel like waiting so im deciding to turbo my daily driver.Car has a shit ton of miles but still runs very well and is healthy. does burn a small amount of oil but nothing thats going to keep me from messing with it. Plan on doing an almost complete junkyard/Rhmt build to keep costs low. Progress will be added as soon as its done. Im kind of taking it slow since it is my daily and i find myself pretty busy during the week.
Vehicle: 1996 geo prizm 4afe.
Mileage:238k
Plans for car: t25 turbocharger, supra injectors, safc, custom ic piping, ebay manifold (unless there is a better quality/cheaper route, open down pipe, etc etc. Dont plan on making an ass load of power cause i know a 4afe wont. just a daily drivable turbocharged geo that will end up being towed home from GLD when i get the "some boost is good so more has to be better" attitude on some hungover sunday. anyway enough with babbling onto the slow progress i have made.
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Front mount. Free
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Battery relocation to trunk. 50.00 total. Ran 2/0 loomed cable. Overkill, i know. oh well.
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Boost Gauge. HF. 20.00. Works Great. couple zip ties and a drill and shes mounted.
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Rice Muffler. Found it on the ground at the junkyard. couldnt pass it up. 10.00
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Some of the IC piping. old intake piping from various cars. 10.00 maybe for a bunch of pieces. i have some laying around from previous builds that should be enough.
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glory shot of the engine. clean for almost 240k. all Stock except for my free intake. haha.
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condom wrapper i saw with some sand in my trunk. the geo is a panty dropper.
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My old EF that i shoudl have kept. pry rotting away in some ally somewhere now.
more will be added as soon as i can get ahold of more free/junkyard parts. will be doing piping from IM to Ic tomarow so ill get pics up asap.
a/c has also been completly removed except for the evap. the bumper support has also been removed. the bumper is back on also.
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I made a bunch of piggyback hate threads on ohmt in referance to anything small bore toyota. I don't feel like repeating myself except to say you need ign. Timing control if you want to make more power than a minivan for more than five minutes.
Meh.
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Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu ;)
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Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu ;)
Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?
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Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu ;)
Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?
toyota to honda dizzy adapter
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The honda dizzy will read backwards. There's a thread on PGMFI forums about that very subject. Go search for it. Suffice to say it works 10x better than the factory toyota failure ecu.
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how old is your geo?
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AEM F/IC ??
Has fuel and timing control.... not expensive.
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AEM F/IC ??
Has fuel and timing control.... not expensive.
Honda ecu/ wiring harness is cheaper if you do it your self!
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A buddy of mine ran his 4afe for 2 years at 10psi with nothing but an fpr lol.
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i ran my 5efe-T 14b car at 10 psi for a few years off of a safc and a msd dis2
toyota motors are good for 250 to the wheels on stock blocks.
boost that pos.
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The honda dizzy will read backwards. There's a thread on PGMFI forums about that very subject. Go search for it. Suffice to say it works 10x better than the factory toyota failure ecu.
Nice, thanks much. Also, is it boosted yet?
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I was running like 15psi on my stock 3E-E with gangster setup... Celica 315cc injectors and an SAFC .. thats it.
Held together well until I parted it out.
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how old is your geo?
obd2. im looking for something to control fuel very cheap. not looking for insane amounts of power. im just sick of turbo civics. i am gathering parts currently and wil be installing in the next few weeks. turbo geo is something i havent seen before. any ideas on whick junyard injectors i can run?
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how old is your geo?
obd2. im looking for something to control fuel very cheap. not looking for insane amounts of power. im just sick of turbo civics. i am gathering parts currently and wil be installing in the next few weeks. turbo geo is something i havent seen before. any ideas on whick junyard injectors i can run?
AEM FIC has my vote.
Do you have the oval connectors on your injectors or the squarish bosch style?
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He should have oval since most of those engines came with Denso type inj's. ;D
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yeah they should be the oval ones
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Yeah ... oval injectors.....
See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's
Neither set will be expensive.
Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.
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i already know im not getting it fully tuned. so you think some celica injectors and safc shoudl suffice for 8 psi? anything else fuel related i should loook into?
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Yeah ... oval injectors.....
See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's
Neither set will be expensive.
Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.
Black top 440's came from the turbo 7mgte mk3 supras. Im sure you meant that.
8psi with an safc should be fine, provided your engine is in decent shape and you tune with a wideband and not off the tip of your hat.
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Yeah ... oval injectors.....
See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's
Neither set will be expensive.
Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.
Black top 440's came from the turbo 7mgte mk3 supras. Im sure you meant that.
You're right ...totally miseed the mark on that one. I was thinking of somthing else. You think Id remember that, Ive had like 3 sets of the fuckers.
.... shit. I was thinking of the NA ones since that, and a MR2 2bar map, was the "setup" to boost a 5SFE on the stock ECU .. at least that's what Burien Toyota said they used.
The n/a ones are 365cc or somthing no?
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Yeah ... oval injectors.....
See if you can get some blacktop 440's (N/A 3g Supra) or Celica (GT-S with the 3SGE) greentop 315's
Neither set will be expensive.
Just shave the little tabs off the sides of them and use the existing injector plugs.
Black top 440's came from the turbo 7mgte mk3 supras. Im sure you meant that.
You're right ...totally miseed the mark on that one. I was thinking of somthing else. You think Id remember that, Ive had like 3 sets of the fuckers.
.... shit. I was thinking of the NA ones since that, and a MR2 2bar map, was the "setup" to boost a 5SFE on the stock ECU .. at least that's what Burien Toyota said they used.
The n/a ones are 365cc or somthing no?
Its really not important. Different literature says different flow rates at the same pressure, so I generally ignore Denso's whitepapers. Close enough is close enough.
Personally, I feel toyota really dropped the ball on engine management in the late 80's early 90's as honda was YEARS ahead (and still is) in that department. The stock toyota stuff was Denso's attempt to rip off Bosch and get away cheap, but the design was obsolete before it hit the ground.
Id rather have CIS than stock toyota computer. Ouch.
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Id rather have CIS than stock toyota computer. Ouch.
AGREE .. OEM toyota engine managment is mad weak. I didnt realize it till I got a Honda though.
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Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu ;)
Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?
a VR signal looks the same no matter which direction the tooth approaches the sensor. the only way to reverse waveform of a VR signal is to reverse the polarity of the sensor.. incidentally, this is why the 24 tooth wheels in toyota dizzies won't work. the polarity of the sensor is reversed (well, actually it's normal compared to every other OEM, honda is actually backwards) and the sensors in the dizzy all share the same ground, so they can't be rewired to work.
my vote goes to the honda ECU. i've been running my MR2 turbo on CROME for 3 years now. i used a honda distributor mounted in the 3SGTE head, but i'm working on crank triggers so i can get rid of the dizzy and run wasted spark DIS (or COP if i can afford a good CDI).
the toyota sensors are all compatible with the honda ECU, too.
the toyota ECUs are quite good for what they are- a barebones engine management box. the code in them is really tight and there's nothing superfluous within them.but that being said, the honda stuff is 100% superior to them in every way. driveability is better on a half-tuned honda ECU than the stock ECU anyday.
an easier way to do it would be the GM '7730 or '7749, since you would only need a single crank trigger installed. the $59 code has closed-loop wideband AFR control, as well as autotune, so it might be a very easy setup comparatively.
neither one is rocket science to set up though.
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Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu ;)
Does it matter which way the distributor spins? Thought toyotas spin the dizzy backwards?
a VR signal looks the same no matter which direction the tooth approaches the sensor. the only way to reverse waveform of a VR signal is to reverse the polarity of the sensor.. incidentally, this is why the 24 tooth wheels in toyota dizzies won't work. the polarity of the sensor is reversed (well, actually it's normal compared to every other OEM, honda is actually backwards) and the sensors in the dizzy all share the same ground, so they can't be rewired to work.
my vote goes to the honda ECU. i've been running my MR2 turbo on CROME for 3 years now. i used a honda distributor mounted in the 3SGTE head, but i'm working on crank triggers so i can get rid of the dizzy and run wasted spark DIS (or COP if i can afford a good CDI).
the toyota sensors are all compatible with the honda ECU, too.
the toyota ECUs are quite good for what they are- a barebones engine management box. the code in them is really tight and there's nothing superfluous within them.but that being said, the honda stuff is 100% superior to them in every way. driveability is better on a half-tuned honda ECU than the stock ECU anyday.
an easier way to do it would be the GM '7730 or '7749, since you would only need a single crank trigger installed. the $59 code has closed-loop wideband AFR control, as well as autotune, so it might be a very easy setup comparatively.
neither one is rocket science to set up though.
Got pic's?
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dizzy modifications:
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since the dizzy spins backwards, you need to line the CYP sensor up so that the signal occurs between TDCs of cylinders 3 and 4 for the reverse rotation. i forget off the top of my head how it changes, but i think it's like 180* out of phase or soemthing like that.
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$4 GM oil vapor separator catch can from a quad 4:
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pinouts for genII and gen3 3SGTE to PGMFI:
www.apexology.com/files/schematics/3SGTE_to_PGMFI.xls (http://)
the 'yota pin names are the same for any model. it is possible to wire the honda distributor with the CKP-M, CYP-M and TDC-M wires combined at the distributor and run through a single, shielded wire to the ECU (use the G- pin in the toyota harness).
they do have some weird names for some of their circuits. the fuel pump relay, toyota calls the "circuit opening relay, and is the FC pin in the factory wiring diagrams ("fuel control." on a comical note, one of the more revered engineers on the MR2 boards used to preach left and right that this was the "fuel cut" pin that was responsible for cutting fuel on overboost. needless to say, engineers can be and often are 100% wrong. don't let their "education" tell you otherwise.)
VSS signals are the same between the two makes. there are really only 2 VSS frequencies out there- 2000ppm and 4000ppm (pulse/mile). most squinty-eye-type cars are 4000ppm. all you have to do is change the gear corrections in crome to whatever your speed (in km/h) at 8k rpm would be for the first 4 gears.
the toyota idle solenoid is the same as the OBD2 3-wire idle solenoids used on some civics (rotary solenoid as opposed to the OBD1 plunger). the trick to using it is to either ground the coil that closes the valve, or install a MOSFET with the drain connected to the coil, source to ground and gate connected through a 270ohm resistor to the coil that opens the valve. in the oem ECU, the signals are inverted between the coils- when one is energized, the other is not. this results in very precise valve control.
the only issue with these type of valves used with the OBD1 ECU is that the rotary solenoids bypass enough air to be used as the cold engine fast idle, so they have no external FITV. i just installed an OBD1 FITV and routed it to the intake manifold, using the coolant lines that previously went to the throttle body.
i think most folks would be surprised how similar the honda and toyota lumps are in terms of tuning. the 3SGTE started right up on a slightly tweaked B18c map and drove better than it ever did on the 3SGT ECU.
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Nice car guy. Mr2 Guru is on this forum, he holds the horsepower record for a stock cam 3sgte, 413 corrected.
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manning?
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No, Harry Davis aka Mr2Guru.
That one dude who claimed like 427 or whatever couldnt produce a dyno sheet.
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interesting.. i know manning on mr2oc has most of the "stock" records on the 3SGTE. his motor is a freak of nature.. i don't even know if he's on this forum...
he's one of the only people on that board whose posts i look forward to reading. most of the other guys are just masturbating publicly. the guy without shoes is the worst- thinks he's jesus with a laptop.
i'll have to do a search for some of harry's posts here..
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he's one of the only people on that board whose posts i look forward to reading. most of the other guys are just masturbating publicly. the guy without shoes is the worst- thinks he's jesus with a laptop.
Ha ha thats funny. Your one of the few intelligent mr2 owners. Chris noshoes is a fucking wanker. Harry has called him out a few times but the majority of the mr2 community thinks noShoes and douchebagwankerwhomadenemesis are gods or something, when neither of them could build a decent reliable high-power streetcar to save their lives.
Harry doesnt post on the net' much. He's a phone talker.
Where are you located btw?
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Send me one of those adaptors immediately. All mine are fail because I'm using hand tools.
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he's one of the only people on that board whose posts i look forward to reading. most of the other guys are just masturbating publicly. the guy without shoes is the worst- thinks he's jesus with a laptop.
Ha ha thats funny. Your one of the few intelligent mr2 owners. Chris noshoes is a fucking wanker. Harry has called him out a few times but the majority of the mr2 community thinks noShoes and douchebagwankerwhomadenemesis are gods or something, when neither of them could build a decent reliable high-power streetcar to save their lives.
Harry doesnt post on the net' much. He's a phone talker.
Where are you located btw?
i'm in minneapolis. i'll probably end up in colorado eventually. i was on the other HMT since like '02 under a different name.
i looked through the MR2guru site and i'm actually very familiar with node's work. that guy is a fucking genius, i wish he still posted regularly on the forums. we had an interesting discussion on replacements for the 3sgte- namely the 2AZ and 2RZ/3RZ. his twin turbo 5VZ was a work of art :D
i agree on all counts with the other "guru" members. noshoes posted a build thread (500WHP, how would noshoes do it?) where he openly pointed out that he was using rods he wasn't sure about. i made the mistake of asking him about it and he had a hissyfit and made fun of my honda ECU.
i was devastated. haha.
anyway, he finally posts a "500whp daily driver, how did noshoes do it" thread and in the first post he stated that he ran out of injector so he turned the boost down so it wouldn't blow up. i laughed my ass off. effectively, he DIDN'T do it. he built it with the wrong parts and turned the boost down so it would be reliable.
mr.nemesis regularly posts delicious little paraphrased niblets of most of the decent turbocharging books out there (mcinnis, a. graham bell, etc), under the guise that he's doing us all a favor by sharing "his" knowledge, and the people there eat it up.
the egos there are nearly unfathomable.
i like the guys like manning, node, orphan, mr2man, bruce H, ebaker.. genuinely decent guys who don't need to pad their egos with masturbatory posts.
Send me one of those adaptors immediately. All mine are fail because I'm using hand tools.
email me. grue0038 at umn dot edu. i may have one or two left.
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node & weasy are cool
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node & weasy are cool
Node is a good friend of mine, he lives here in Asheville. We've partied together many times. He is very bright, and a stand-up guy. His fence-post intake on his first v6 mr2 was a thing of beauty.
I have seen first hand the sort of work noshoes does, and quite frankly I wouldnt trust the dude to change my oil. I mean, braging about building a 500hp daily driver? Please. The mr2 community has been brainwashed by those losers into thinking that no one else can build or tune mr2's. Hell, Joseph has tuned one of noshoes' abortions that with Harry's touch and JD's tune, made 425hp and stopped because the owner decided it was too much for him past that, probably had alot more in it, but only made 325 with chris' tune.
Mr. Nemesis tried to tell harry that 3S oil pumps dont fail. I have a box full of them at the shop, and the cracked crankshafts to go with, that say otherwise.
Its weird like the mr2 people are too scaried to step up to either of them in fear that they will catch a ban-hammer or something. Very Honda-Techish.
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^^ I say we do a good old rhmt fourm war :evil:
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best friend had a >450awhp celica at one time.
he ate 2 oil pumps in his. first time he got away with it. parked it on the interstate and i got him on an 18' trailer. second time i couldn't get him and he tried to make it home. siezed that bitch about 10 miles down the interstate. sold his pistons to an MR2 guy
robb, the 2 big mr2 forums became a circle jerk quite awhile back. the names youve listed, all they are looking to do is sell people shit. afa noshoes, idk i dont play ith the i4's. i can tell you that i ran into afew problems ith people doing v6 swaps where they had talked to noshoes and he had giving them shit information about the process, end results & problems.
idk man, node is one of those guys i dont know personally & like many i had to question the existance of the 850hp 4runner. but time marched on and i cant name anyone whos played ith the toy-truck based v6's more so... i always gave him the benifit of the doubt. seemed cool, knoledgeable & always willing to go the extra mile to help people. its hard for me to remember, but he may have given me a set of stock 5vz-fe injectors for a friend one time. i kno someone did, seems like itwas him looking back. idk years go by and you forget shit.
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Wait a minute here. I am turboing a 86 MR2 that has a 4AGZE converted to turbo. You all think it is possible to run a Honda ECU on it? As to the issue of the dizzy rotating opposite directions why not just swap the plug wires around on the cap?
Too the OP the 4AFE's came in several different iterations. The later ones are the best as they share the same crank and rods as the 4AGZE. If you really wanted to make big power you could use the 4AGZE shortblock and swap the 4AFE head onto it but I would just swap too the entire 4AGZE. Also some of the 4AFE's used a MAP sensor and others used the AFM. The Map is better of the 2 and would be best for the turbo swap. The early 4AFE's are only good for about 180hp and that is pushing them.
A Greddy Emanage Blue would work fine for you and finding them used are cheap. I have less then $150 in mine and it came with both Ignition and Injector harness's. Plus it can Datalog and there are programs that will self tune it for you, all you have too do is set AFR you are shooting for.
All a 4AFE is is a 4AGE bottom end with a AFE head on it. The cranks are 6 bolt. I think all pre 90 4AFE's are the 3 rib small rod versions and post 90 are 7 RIB large rod version. The wrist pins are 18mm on the small and 20mm on the large. The large version rods can handle 20psi. I would also get a thicker HG to lower CR. I think the 4AFE is .6mm (I know the 7AFE is) so you could use a 4AGE one that is 1.2mm. There is an eBay gasket set for the 4AGE that has one that is 1.75mm and that would work pretty good.
Post results.
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swapping plug wres wont fix anything on the issue of dizzy roatiaon backwards... it dosetn work like that those timing sensors (magnetic pick up coils) are there to measure the angel of the crank for fuel injectorn and timing work.
by having the dizzy spin the other way the signals to the ecu will be all backwards and the honda ecu wont really work
so by re repositioning is a must to have the signals from the dizzy to the ecu in proper sequence and all.
and if you boost that corolla motor thos shits have composit head gaskets how well do they hold up to boost. i would not boost much on a motor with a shity gasket. metal hg and studs is the way id go
but some one chime in who knows.. how well they hold up.
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swapping plug wres wont fix anything on the issue of dizzy roatiaon backwards... it dosetn work like that those timing sensors (magnetic pick up coils) are there to measure the angel of the crank for fuel injectorn and timing work.
by having the dizzy spin the other way the signals to the ecu will be all backwards and the honda ecu wont really work
so by re repositioning is a must to have the signals from the dizzy to the ecu in proper sequence and all.
and if you boost that corolla motor thos shits have composit head gaskets how well do they hold up to boost. i would not boost much on a motor with a shity gasket. metal hg and studs is the way id go
but some one chime in who knows.. how well they hold up.
The head gaskets can hold up fine to boost, just retorque the bolts and move on. Stock 7m's have been posting 550+whp #'s on stock retorqued head gaskets. No they are not better than metal, but they can work. Stock toyota hg torque is too low. Retorque em and dont knock, your hg will be fine. If it blows, replace it with another $5 gasket and spend all your $$$ on engine control.
Wait a minute here. I am turboing a 86 MR2 that has a 4AGZE converted to turbo. You all think it is possible to run a Honda ECU on it? As to the issue of the dizzy rotating opposite directions why not just swap the plug wires around on the cap?
Too the OP the 4AFE's came in several different iterations. The later ones are the best as they share the same crank and rods as the 4AGZE. If you really wanted to make big power you could use the 4AGZE shortblock and swap the 4AFE head onto it but I would just swap too the entire 4AGZE. Also some of the 4AFE's used a MAP sensor and others used the AFM. The Map is better of the 2 and would be best for the turbo swap. The early 4AFE's are only good for about 180hp and that is pushing them.
A Greddy Emanage Blue would work fine for you and finding them used are cheap. I have less then $150 in mine and it came with both Ignition and Injector harness's. Plus it can Datalog and there are programs that will self tune it for you, all you have too do is set AFR you are shooting for.
All a 4AFE is is a 4AGE bottom end with a AFE head on it. The cranks are 6 bolt. I think all pre 90 4AFE's are the 3 rib small rod versions and post 90 are 7 RIB large rod version. The wrist pins are 18mm on the small and 20mm on the large. The large version rods can handle 20psi. I would also get a thicker HG to lower CR. I think the 4AFE is .6mm (I know the 7AFE is) so you could use a 4AGE one that is 1.2mm. There is an eBay gasket set for the 4AGE that has one that is 1.75mm and that would work pretty good.
Post results.
This entire post lends me to believe you have never built anything in your life, and have found all your "information" on mr2 forums. There are a few members here who are running or have built 4a powered vehicles. You havent, and it is very clear you dont know what your talking about.
I would never use emanage. Absolute junk.
honda ecu, megasquirt, AEM FIC, MAF trans Pro, all MUCH better units.
You have been fed piss poor information, by people who lack experience or intelligence.
There has been quite a lot of speculation as to how much power X version of the 4A can handle. I dare say you quoted your #'s from someone who has no clue what they are doing, since you stated its power restrictions in "psi" and not power. Please dont bring that ignorant sort of thinking here.
Ribbed blocks are stronger, but the fools who claim to have split the three ribs (ive never seen pics) understand nothing about vibration from detonation, or the fact that small bore engines in general are sensitive to ignition timing changes (D-series anyone?) Idiots who break 4a's were using piggybacks and didnt have a clue what they were doing.
Basically, of your 10 posts so far, not one of them has been useful or technically inclined. Also, you have failed to make a proper intro post, which is a banning offense here. I suggest you get on board.
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turbo geo prizm is in the works. safc and some injectors is good enough for me. ill have pics up once i get enough done to make it worth taking pictures.
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Swap in 4ag 20v+ boost and run off honda ecu ;)
That's kind of hard to do since alpha-n is TPS based and boost requires MAP as load and there is no boost comp for alpha-n in anything Honda. I could ask Calvin to support it in eCtune, it's really no different than a fuel or ignition correction vs bottle pressure for nitrous.
AEM FIC, or MAF Translator Pro would do the job very well on an older EFI or very early OBD2 vehicle. I have little love for the E-manglage, all I ever get from them is noise on the sensor inputs. I've had one SRT-4 turn out decently, and four abortion tunes on S2000 to Scion, thanks to E-Manglage. No more, please.
i looked through the MR2guru site and i'm actually very familiar with node's work. that guy is a fucking genius, i wish he still posted regularly on the forums. we had an interesting discussion on replacements for the 3sgte- namely the 2AZ and 2RZ/3RZ. his twin turbo 5VZ was a work of art :D
Jim Persek's somewhat bright but has a very hard time finishing anything. I think he's much happier since he got a mainstream job, sold off all his projects, and bought an Elise. He has all of the cognitive faculties and latent abilities of any household name in the industry but he can't be bothered to put the time in he needs to in order to develop his skills because he doesn't like hard work. In many ways he's like a c0mpl3x who can think but not do anything with his hands.
You'll not find him posting on Toyota forums because that widebody V6 car of his was sold to a guy in the midwest, and promptly strapped to a dyno where it made less power than a stock Taco. Self pwnage at it's best. I kinda figured it was going to go that way when I asked for a ride in the car and he never got on it.
Just airing this out because Andrew Shinn from pgmfi.org was best friends with the guy who bought the widebody car, and I really don't care for the way he treated Wes Buckner. We hold our own to a higher standard than that on this forum, why should we let it slide for those we know in real life?
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swapping plug wres wont fix anything on the issue of dizzy roatiaon backwards... it dosetn work like that those timing sensors (magnetic pick up coils) are there to measure the angel of the crank for fuel injectorn and timing work.
by having the dizzy spin the other way the signals to the ecu will be all backwards and the honda ecu wont really work
so by re repositioning is a must to have the signals from the dizzy to the ecu in proper sequence and all.
the signal voltage is close enough with the dizzy spinning backward. VR sensors output the same signal regardless of the direction the tooth is approaching from.
you're right about the sequencing though. i repositioned the dizzy in mine so that spinning the wrong way, it still gets the CYP singal between 3 and 4. there's about half a tooth offset between the CKP and TDC sensors, and a slight offset on the CYP, but the only thing i've noticed weird about it is on the FTL with no load on the engine, it cuts very slowly. as soon as the engine loads up when i dump the clutch, it cuts like any honda engine does.
strangely enough, i had it set up wrong the first time i started it. i had the CYP lines up to cylinder 1 TDC, and it still ran, and ran surprisingly well. it also runs just fine without the TDC sensor, though it cranks a lot longer before firing.
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You'll not find him posting on Toyota forums because that widebody V6 car of his was sold to a guy in the midwest, and promptly strapped to a dyno where it made less power than a stock Taco. Self pwnage at it's best. I kinda figured it was going to go that way when I asked for a ride in the car and he never got on it.
Wrong car Joseph. That widebody failure isnt the same car he's talking about. I think he's refering to the black twin turbo car the dude from NY with too much money had Jim build. As I recall, dude bought it off ebay, had it sent to Jim, who built it and then sent it to the guy, who had never seen the car IRL. Too much money. It made decent power as I recall but dont remember #'s.
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I know, Jim's widebody was a single china turbo car.
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Wait a minute here. I am turboing a 86 MR2 that has a 4AGZE converted to turbo. You all think it is possible to run a Honda ECU on it? As to the issue of the dizzy rotating opposite directions why not just swap the plug wires around on the cap?
Too the OP the 4AFE's came in several different iterations. The later ones are the best as they share the same crank and rods as the 4AGZE. If you really wanted to make big power you could use the 4AGZE shortblock and swap the 4AFE head onto it but I would just swap too the entire 4AGZE. Also some of the 4AFE's used a MAP sensor and others used the AFM. The Map is better of the 2 and would be best for the turbo swap. The early 4AFE's are only good for about 180hp and that is pushing them.
A Greddy Emanage Blue would work fine for you and finding them used are cheap. I have less then $150 in mine and it came with both Ignition and Injector harness's. Plus it can Datalog and there are programs that will self tune it for you, all you have too do is set AFR you are shooting for.
All a 4AFE is is a 4AGE bottom end with a AFE head on it. The cranks are 6 bolt. I think all pre 90 4AFE's are the 3 rib small rod versions and post 90 are 7 RIB large rod version. The wrist pins are 18mm on the small and 20mm on the large. The large version rods can handle 20psi. I would also get a thicker HG to lower CR. I think the 4AFE is .6mm (I know the 7AFE is) so you could use a 4AGE one that is 1.2mm. There is an eBay gasket set for the 4AGE that has one that is 1.75mm and that would work pretty good.
Post results.
i don't know the first thing about yota motors, and after reading that garbage i feel like i know even less. emanage? ebay gasket sets? seriously?
for fuck's sake, don't open your mouth to give advice to people unless you know what the fuck you're talking about.
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throw a bluetop 4ag head on. theyre practically free. solves dizzy and injector problem
go with 4age harness and msII.
dsm 450 plug right into that harness.
fuel lines and pump???? your on your own. i hear old school turbo 300z fuel pumps are a direct swap. bend up some of your own fuel lines.
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re torque the stock head gasket sounds like a good free way of fixing the problem i like the ideal no money spent on extra shit. :yes:
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you guys are over complicating this. its a car with 235k. runs very well doesnt burn oil but its still a dated car. not looking for power. im just sick of seeing turbo hondas and feel like playing around with something i dont need to spend money on. battery is relocated to truck. ripped the a/c out. boost gauge is installed. also removed bumper foam/brace for the fmic that will be going on as soon as i can get one cheap. been looking into a diesel truck lately or a 4 runner to play with so i think the turbocharger can take the rest of the cars life away for all i car. safc some injectors and a cheap WB tune will be good enough. anyone in the madison/kenosha area feel like doing a decent WB street tune for some beer and cash?
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not looking for power.
Then why bother turbocharging it? Or even making this thread for that matter? If you just wanted a simple setup, why bother asking?
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because i can. and of course im looking for some power. but am i looking for 450hp out of a geo, no. it was a figure of speech. and i was just asking for info on cheap tuning possibilites. ive had a turbo ef hatch i did a build on with s200b and blah blah blah just dont know much about lower budget tuning options.
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Cheap doesnt always mean simple. If it were simple, everyone could do it. :noel:
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yeah then just build it blow it and then post pics.
dont even ask for help.
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Cheap doesnt always mean simple. If it were simple, everyone could do it. :noel:
never said it was going to be simple. didnt you read where i said a WB and someone who has a clue on EFI tuning comes into place? im a diesel mechanic not a EFI guru like JD.
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you guys are over complicating this.
never said it was going to be simple.
At this point im just twisting your words lol.
No but seriously, do you have a budget in mind?
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i'm still working on the design right now, but i think i may have come up with a daughterboard that can translate the denso 24+2 distributor signals into something the honda ECU can read.
that means the honda ECU could work with the stock dizzy. with a few add-ons to convert the ignition signal, it could be totally plug and play :D
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i'm still working on the design right now, but i think i may have come up with a daughterboard that can translate the denso 24+2 distributor signals into something the honda ECU can read.
that means the honda ECU could work with the stock dizzy. with a few add-ons to convert the ignition signal, it could be totally plug and play :D
Dave B was working on a box that could distribute, fabricate, and/or insert timing pulses, including ones didn't exist in the input signal. Contact him at blundar at gee mail and he might share design, source, snippets, or absolutely nothing - but it never hurts to ask, right?
FYI you can do this neatly as a daughterboard solution, insert it in place of the vertical H1C1 card that intercepts the analog positioning sensor signals and converts them to digital signals. This would allow you to send your 24+2 signal in through the existing circuitry and then output it as a digital signal going directly into IC10 which is a 74HC14 schottky/inverter that acts as a signal driver to the MCU. I'd be inclined to use the H1C1 on your board to do the initial analog-digital conversion, but the Toy sensors might be a little off compared to the way the H1C1 is set up for. A scope on the outputs going to IC10, bench powered ECU, and Toy distributor spun on your lathe tells all.
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the toyota analog is backward compared to the honda, so i don't think HIC1 would work as well as a similar circuit. the only issue i can think of is that the ND distributors tend to be pretty noisy. i wonder if grounding the unused sensor would help eliminate some of that.
the reason i wanted to do a separate card is so i can add things to make it more plug and play- i.e. ignition inverter/clamp, cold idle circuit, TPS rescale, and possibly even P&H injector drivers.
dave's project sounds pretty cool though. for the honda community it may be a bad thing since the added demand might drive up the cost of OBD1 ECUs, but for everyone else it would be nice to just configure the triggers in some software to work with almost any engine.
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Nah, don't worry about demand. OBD1 Honda is dying off. I've officially tuned more everything else put together than Hondas this year. It'll be cool for a while like old carbed SBC were cool 10-15 years ago, but the train has pulled into the station at the end of the line and everybody's getting off.
Also, don't worry about Dave's project. It's bottom of the pile compared to 2-3 others.
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pics added of my christopher reeves progress.
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Seeing that car makes me miss me '96 Prism/Corolla. :'(
I always wanted to do a 4agee 20v Blacltop w/ 6-spd conversion w/ a 5-lug Celica Gt brakes (4-wheel disc). ;D
But I keep finding Honda stuff for ubercheap. :o
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Holy off topic :o Get this Prism of death rolling and post vids of smashing all motor Hondas :noel:
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doin some ic piping tom after work. was going to today but i cant say no to overtime. ill have some pics up.
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all plumbing from intake manifold to intercooler is done. will have pics up this weekend.
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all plumbing from intake manifold to intercooler is done. will have pics up this weekend.
sweet
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Picked up an abused t25 and a 2g bov today for 50. installed the bov. also got a t25 dp for 20. ill get pics up asap. should only be a few weeks untill shes done.
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hurry, and order your mani, order your mani, order your mani!
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where is your intro post? Porn? pics of GF naked?
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just thought i'd throw this up here...
since i don't have a scope, i drew the TDC signal conditioner circuit on the HIC1 board in LTSpice and ran it through a simulation with a sine wave input.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv77%2FscarecrowX%2FHIC1.jpg&hash=99badaffb23e2f5632b16cb15a3256ee6387ba59)
if you're working on getting a honda ECU to run on another distributor, you'll notice that the rising edge of the signal is the one that corresponds with the zero-crossing portion of the wave (i.e. tooth lined up with sensor). the output signal of the HIC1 is inverted before it's sent to the MCU (so the MCU is a falling edge trigger).
if you try to drive it with a signal that goes positive first (most other distributors), the output pulse width is really wide, and can potentially stay high long enough to miss the next tooth at high rpm:
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv77%2FscarecrowX%2FHIC1inv.jpg&hash=abfb4658cc09312987ea1bdd56c69fd82a83709e)
either way, it should be pretty easy to run almost any distributor provided you can get the reference edge correct, and use the right logic to get all 3 signals.
i'd really like to check what toyota uses for signal conditioning for their ECUs, but i sold my stock one. i'll have to see if i can swipe another one locally for a day to pull a schematic from the dizzy inputs.
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This is one of the hotesst piece of african engineering ever O0
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Spice is a nice software, but I dont want to touch it again in my life. I've learn a couple of thing with it tho...
Reverse engineering FTW :noel:
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This is one of the hotesst piece of african engineering ever O0
id say this build is def more HMT style build. Not so much nigger'd. The workmenship is there just the quality of the parts is not. buts its simply a function over form build. these junkyard parts will boost feed the engine just as well as any other components would. and its not like much is needed to destroy the engine anyways. got my drain line today and hopefully gettin the fmu this weekend. im lacking on pics im aware.
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also trying to talk a friend into a festiva/bp project. sounds fun if it where boost fed.
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also trying to talk a friend into a festiva/bp project. sounds fun if it where boost fed.
Saw in SportCompact Magazine a few years back were the took a Mazda B6T ('88 323 GTX).
Bolted up to the Festiva trany then there was a little wiring to do.
That car was a kick ass sleeper. ;D
Links: http://www.cwstuning.com/gallery/Fastiva (http://www.cwstuning.com/gallery/Fastiva)
http://sportcompactcar.automotive.com/71602/0110-sccp-1990-ford-festiva/index.html (http://sportcompactcar.automotive.com/71602/0110-sccp-1990-ford-festiva/index.html)
You could have your buddy do a shogun setup in his Festiva that be bad ass with a turbo or S/C. :yes:
Make sure you reinforce the chassis, can you say twisted can of scrap on the track? ;D
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ok its been over a month since the last post, this bitch should be shredding tires by now. UPDATES
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ok its been over a month since the last post, this bitch should be shredding tires by now. UPDATES
+1
i did not read all the posts,don't know what manifold your going to run but i vote eleaphant/sinktrap manifod.
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ripped the turbo kit off and its just my daily. ill admit at being a sellout but i could not pass up a deal on a no rust ef so now thats what im playing with. still have access to the kit so if i can scoop another vehicle itll be on.
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It's okay, because you weren't really the first xHMT turbo Prizm.
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wheres the other?
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On ex-HMT. I guess it was '03-'04?
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is this similair to an old man saying "in my day i walked 10 miles to school" thing. except any car that someone boosts that hasnt been done on hmt before technically has been according to gpa JD? haha
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No, it's more like you didn't follow through so I became sad and decided to shift a larger portion of the unhappiness onto you.
BTW, the guy put a MAPhack on it and I thought it was going to blow up and told him so. I think it lasted a week and then let go? The kid who did it was all heart, wasn't afraid of work, but he was one of those exciteable types who didn't listen to warnings because failure was inconceivable. Sort of like hotrex with regards to everything he's ever built.
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i stand corrected.
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That doesn't mean you have to stop busting my onions. O0
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I am equally sad. I work full time as a diesel tech and 99 percent of my friends are into anything from turbocharged probe engines in escorts to pulling trucks. So ive gotten my fair share of dissapointment. but oh well priorities are first.
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but oh well priorities are first.
So that means you're putting the fucking kit back on? :o
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blow it up and walk 22 miles to work when we got 18 inches of snow last week. YES. :yes:
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blow it up and walk 22 miles to work when we got 18 inches of snow last week. YES. :yes:
If you do that no one would ever call you a pussy again.
BTW, late 90s Mazda Protege/MX3 with manual trans are sub $1000 for a decent ride. Get one, and then boost your bitch.
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and what about this minty ef shell in my garage? sell it?
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blow it up and walk 22 miles to work when we got 18 inches of snow last week. YES. :yes:
If you do that no one would ever call you a pussy again.
BTW, late 90s Mazda Protege/MX3 with manual trans are sub $1000 for a decent ride. Get one, and then boost your bitch.
isn't that the same shit as a ford probe? a buddy and myself have been contemplating a UCAR build for next year