:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: onlyflash944 on December 27, 2009, 11:57:07 PM
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Ok, so I've been sitting on this information for a while just because I've been WAY too lazy to actually post something about it. Part of it probably is because I don't have the right tools to accurately measure the runout that several other people have mentioned with the latest generation of OBX 40mm LSDs from Chinaland. So what I will tell you is what I found and what I did to 'fix' the problem. This included brand new hardware and springs
Straight out of the really crappy packaging that didn't really protect the unit. It's a solid chunk of steel so I wasn't too worried about it.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FJoes%2520OBX%2520Rebuild%2FP1010322.jpg&hash=975b836db61e1e031198250f2865b8c79b0f4d82)
Shot of the spring washers like they came from the factory
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FJoes%2520OBX%2520Rebuild%2FP1010323.jpg&hash=b89497e08223dc115bb5bbb06eb054c1a4c71297)
Starting to unscrew the SHCS. Right off you notice that a few of the screws were way harder to get out than others
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FJoes%2520OBX%2520Rebuild%2FP1010324.jpg&hash=968a9331faf25d8aeff1e03b27ae04e746e58f13)
As you can see, a couple of the screws seem cross threaded. I marked which holes the hard ones were on the case
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FJoes%2520OBX%2520Rebuild%2FP1010325.jpg&hash=26ef74ec8383575966613ecf62ebfbb0fb243974)
Close up of the worse ones
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FJoes%2520OBX%2520Rebuild%2FP1010326.jpg&hash=d0f57607edfdc014ee27fcbdc867f39cab207498)
Bevelle spring comparison. A typical problem with these LSDs is that the springs fail. So, I found some from MSC that were a bit thicker and felt way better. Factory installed are on the right
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FJoes%2520OBX%2520Rebuild%2FP1010327.jpg&hash=d2ac672fb41dce875ec95f50ce8b0419a7fe3e26)
Ok, so here is the money shot. Those screws are not cross threaded. When I was looking over the unit after pulling out the screws, a few of the holes in the top half of the case didn't really match up with the threaded holes in the bottom half. Oddly enough, the ones that looked like they didn't match up too well were the ones that the screws were hard to get out. There was just enough room so that when you fooled with it a bit, you could get the screws started, but they were not happy being tightened down. So what to do? The easy solution was to drill out the upper half to make the holes a little bigger so that the poor machining wasn't as noticable. I did this with a drill bit that was just a size or two bigger than the hole was to begin with. Now it was much easier to get screws in and out and it didn't take enough material off the top half to hurt being able to hold the case together
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FJoes%2520OBX%2520Rebuild%2FP1010329.jpg&hash=107c8429f00f7e4dec2581e15d4caa894adb0cad)
Here is the thing. With the LSD straight out of the box, I was able to clearly notice the runout wobble with the unit installed in the clutch half of the transmission case. When I took the unit apart, and installed just enough screws to hold it together in holes that were 'good' the run out wobble went away. I'm not saying it was completely gone, but I couldn't see it with my eye and I looked really closely. After the above modifications, I tested it again after locktiteing all the screws, installing the upgraded springs and re-tapping the screw holes for good measure. Same thing, no wobble. The screws went in much easier now that they were not having to deform themselves to get in the hole. Now I don't have a nice dial gauge with magnetic base to test things and get real numbers, but I was more than happy with the results of my modifications. LSD got installed, and I've put about 1600 miles on it, no problems with the modifications. Even snapped a half shaft at the drag strip. I also did the same thing for a unit that went in Dr. D-Series' car and he hasn't had any complaints. Only thing we both noticed, which had been documented by other people on the interwebz, was that one of the axles is snug and could use a little bit of loving from a brake hone to make it easier to get in and out.
So I submit this post to you, RHMT. Take it or leave it, maybe someone will find it useful. I also have a bunch of extra beefier bevelle spring washers and one grade stronger SHCS bolts that fit these suckers cause MSC sells bulk, so if anyone wants to just buy enough to do one, I got you covered for nog cheap.
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buddy has the first gen fail were the pass axle doesnt come out they work great though
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buddy has the first gen fail were the pass axle doesnt come out they work great though
different problem. what he has is where they didn't machine a shoulder in the internal teeth so the snap ring gets stuck. this is where they didn't make a hole big enough for the smooth part of the axle but if you grease it up, it will go in with some persuasion
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You pull the DS Axle out and mid shaft first.... Then you can stick a 1/4" extension through the middle of the washers and tap the slut out.
No biggie, but everyone bitching about it wasnt smart enough to think about it
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I was wondering when you were going to post this up. Too bad you didn't have a dial indicator to measure the runout, interesting nonetheless.
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Nice writeup, Blake. If you think about it, the chinese are trying to be precise within the limits of their understanding, so it makes sense that some of the bolt holes line up while others do not.
FYI, China Freight sells a serviceable dial indicator and magnetic base for ~$25.
You pull the DS Axle out and mid shaft first.... Then you can stick a 1/4" extension through the middle of the washers and tap the slut out.
No biggie, but everyone bitching about it wasnt smart enough to think about it
I modified mine out of the gate.
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Does anyone know for sure if the latest gen. of the obx is the same as the mirage lsd?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91-CIVIC-SOHC-HELICAL-TORSEN-LSD-SLIP-DIFFERENTIAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33559b5797QQitemZ220479575959QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91-CIVIC-SOHC-HELICAL-TORSEN-LSD-SLIP-DIFFERENTIAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33559b5797QQitemZ220479575959QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
If the fix for the runout issue is this simple I may have to snag a backup...
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Taco Taco
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Taco Taco
sticky sticky or post a link in JD's useful threads please. ;D
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Does anyone know for sure if the latest gen. of the obx is the same as the mirage lsd?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91-CIVIC-SOHC-HELICAL-TORSEN-LSD-SLIP-DIFFERENTIAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33559b5797QQitemZ220479575959QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/88-91-CIVIC-SOHC-HELICAL-TORSEN-LSD-SLIP-DIFFERENTIAL_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem33559b5797QQitemZ220479575959QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
If the fix for the runout issue is this simple I may have to snag a backup...
Do you honestly think that company went out and found a NEW supplier for the Quaife knockoff?
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300 is less than the group buy that was attempted a while back. Found a few more pics in photobucket
Packaging
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FTransmission%2FP1010149.jpg&hash=af3261db7239d331df2aeb61af426e35db6fc9a5)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FTransmission%2FP1010152.jpg&hash=26fe6f6d6a2c4d30b5db4acaa07e2826d0e46dff)
Here is the other problem that I had when installing the unit. While putting the FD on, I used the stock left hand thread bolts and the flange didn't clear the casing on one hole. Again true precision from the slant eyes
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FTransmission%2FP1010209.jpg&hash=02d8859f0af521eddfa8f4920d16045ffbc44ff0)
As with every diff install, you need to re-shim the casing
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FTransmission%2FP1010195.jpg&hash=40321e29b4528472c62917a272bcc4bcbfbd3d89)
Another comparison of the stock washers vs. my beefy MSC ones
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi91.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fk295%2Fonlyflash944%2FRed%2520CX%2FTransmission%2FP1010189.jpg&hash=56b408b0720354b890363250c650621479c03bf7)
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so, split open a new OBX POS, correct the issues, void any warranty, then try to use it.
Guess what, for the time and effort wasted you could buy a diff from my competitor for $650, drop it in, check shim, and go.
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Really? You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware?
The problems I can think of w/the obx: the axle sticking, ring gear bolts hitting the body, the runout/bolt hole issue, and having to grind the case to install sometimes... I don't see these things as a major issue.
I think the warranty issue would be a worthwhile arguement if there was a high rate of failure among the obx units. I just haven't seen any come apart.
I don't see the mfactory diff saving $350 dollars of labor w/the above problems. I'm sure this info. sucks for aquafina, as he seems to be a stand up fellow and his finger wand is kind of cool too, I think he's gonna have a hard time being the middle child now...
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so, split open a new OBX POS, correct the issues, void any warranty, then try to use it.
Guess what, for the time and effort wasted you could buy a diff from my competitor for $650, drop it in, check shim, and go.
from what i understand, you build transmissions for some customers that are very serious about racing. sounds like a lot of them are willing to pay good money to get the quality work you do and the quality parts you install. to each his own. i am all about doing shit myself, saving money, and most of the time i actually enjoy working on the car as much as driving it. i intended this stuff to be for the cheap DIYer like me, hence why it is on this website and not elsewhere
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so, split open a new OBX POS, correct the issues, void any warranty, then try to use it.
Guess what, for the time and effort wasted you could buy a diff from my competitor for $650, drop it in, check shim, and go.
from what i understand, you build transmissions for some customers that are very serious about racing. sounds like a lot of them are willing to pay good money to get the quality work you do and the quality parts you install. to each his own. i am all about doing shit myself, saving money, and most of the time i actually enjoy working on the car as much as driving it. i intended this stuff to be for the cheap DIYer like me, hence why it is on this website and not elsewhere
The motherfucking RHMT way!
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I was just going through my pm box and was gona ask you about this....lol Good find!
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You get what you pay for. OP you did not have the tools to check and see if what you did fix the issues. You may have help the issues, but with out checking it the right way there is no way to tell. Thus this info can be useless.
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You get what you pay for. OP you did not have the tools to check and see if what you did fix the issues. You may have help the issues, but with out checking it the right way there is no way to tell. Thus this info can be useless.
true
i highly doubt the modifications made things worse. but if two people have been using them on the road and haven't had any problems, that says something
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Don't know if there is a ton of difference between the Honda units and the Neon units, but a ton of TD guys have been running the neon units with few failures. They upgrade the washers, retorque all of the bolts and go.
The failures I am aware of mostly came from wheel hopping the hell out of them in dry burnout boxs and on launches.
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Really? You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware?
The problems I can think of w/the obx: the axle sticking, ring gear bolts hitting the body, the runout/bolt hole issue, and having to grind the case to install sometimes... I don't see these things as a major issue.
I think the warranty issue would be a worthwhile arguement if there was a high rate of failure among the obx units. I just haven't seen any come apart.
I don't see the mfactory diff saving $350 dollars of labor w/the above problems. I'm sure this info. sucks for aquafina, as he seems to be a stand up fellow and his finger wand is kind of cool too, I think he's gonna have a hard time being the middle child now...
Ya oi posted in that thread over there.. Hope he dont get pissed. I even tried to be nice :yes:
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link to said hardware repair kit.
well.. whats taking so long?
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I have it bookmarked at home.....
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Oh, BTW you do have to clearance the case in d series cable transmissions to clear the diff bolts. If you don't, the diff will do it for you :noel:
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv203%2Fryan89crx%2Fobx03.jpg&hash=1ed9ae00da800a768f8f0a39f408e069fec38c09)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv203%2Fryan89crx%2Fobx04.jpg&hash=f89bdeee0ac8e851a688e83f163b7db29863c667)
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link to said hardware repair kit.
very useful website that I used to go over the two units i have messed with
http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm (http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm)
p.s. i'm not trying to steal this guy's business, i'm just trying to get rid of some of this extra hardware i had to order
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link to said hardware repair kit.
very useful website that I used to go over the two units i have messed with
http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm (http://rbryant.freeshell.org/obx_washers.htm)
p.s. i'm not trying to steal this guy's business, i'm just trying to get rid of some of this extra hardware i had to order
Thats the site i ordered mine from. Theyre holding up Saweet.
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Really? You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware?
When he signs his name to his work, and if there's anything else defective with the OBX unit that results in him eating shipping, dropping more $ in time/parts/etc, it doesn't make sense for him to fool with it.
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Really? You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware?
When he signs his name to his work, and if there's anything else defective with the OBX unit that results in him eating shipping, dropping more $ in time/parts/etc, it doesn't make sense for him to fool with it.
exactly
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almost worth picking up an OBX just to try it on the NA car... RHMT discount on hardware too. hm.
not to mention i got a base and dial gauge here..
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not to mention i got a base and dial gauge here..
I unpacked mine today.
Now to find a HT kid who's read the bad press, and scoop theirs off of them. I need one for the classic Si.
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not to mention i got a base and dial gauge here..
I unpacked mine today.
Now to find a HT kid who's read the bad press, and scoop theirs off of them. I need one for the classic Si.
$279 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HELICAL-LSD-88-89-90-91-HONDA-CRX-CIVIC-SOHC-ENGINE-LSD_W0QQitemZ140339701812QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item20ace5e834 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HELICAL-LSD-88-89-90-91-HONDA-CRX-CIVIC-SOHC-ENGINE-LSD_W0QQitemZ140339701812QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item20ace5e834)
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Sir, what good does a D-series diff do me when I own an LS swapped ED and a Z6 swapped classic Si? :'(
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Sir, what good does a D-series diff do me when I own an LS swapped ED and a Z6 swapped classic Si? :'(
You have a car? That runs?
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Sir, what good does a D-series diff do me when I own an LS swapped ED and a Z6 swapped classic Si? :'(
You have a car? That runs?
Nonsense. I thumb rides everywhere.
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This would be even more cool if the b-series part wasn't 30% more. MFactory parts arent bad at that point. Actually, does the b-series OBX have these issues?
BTW with the ITR helical, is it tru that's a POS? I know the stock disc-type aren't great, but the ITR is a torsen style. I ask because I found an old mista bone post elsewhere...
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I have no experience with anything B series
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This would be even more cool if the b-series part wasn't 30% more. MFactory parts arent bad at that point. Actually, does the b-series OBX have these issues?
BTW with the ITR helical, is it tru that's a POS? I know the stock disc-type aren't great, but the ITR is a torsen style. I ask because I found an old mista bone post elsewhere...
he lied.
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This would be even more cool if the b-series part wasn't 30% more. MFactory parts arent bad at that point. Actually, does the b-series OBX have these issues?
BTW with the ITR helical, is it tru that's a POS? I know the stock disc-type aren't great, but the ITR is a torsen style. I ask because I found an old mista bone post elsewhere...
he lied.
So seriously, what's the truth on the JDM ITR helical diff? Assuming you have a tranny it indeed fits.
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onlyflash944 - if I were you, I'd offer these "upgrading" services to H-T and turbod16 or wherever else. I'm sure people would be willing to pay some money to avoid actually having to do this work :P
I wish I had purchased a LSD before putting the swap together, but damn that's a lot of money :P
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onlyflash944 - if I were you, I'd offer these "upgrading" services to H-T and turbod16 or wherever else. I'm sure people would be willing to pay some money to avoid actually having to do this work :P
I wish I had purchased a LSD before putting the swap together, but damn that's a lot of money :P
$305, about $60 cheaper than OBX if you want to take a stab at the fix
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Civic-crx-del-sol-LSD-Helical-D15-16-88-00-SOHC_W0QQitemZ180474249591QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2a051a8177 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-Civic-crx-del-sol-LSD-Helical-D15-16-88-00-SOHC_W0QQitemZ180474249591QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2a051a8177)
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i almost want to buy one of these sluts to go in the NA car...
too bad i dont even have money for mr noodles and knock off mac/cheese
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Really? You'd rather spend $650 than $300, re-drilling some holes, n grabbing some hardware?
The problems I can think of w/the obx: the axle sticking, ring gear bolts hitting the body, the runout/bolt hole issue, and having to grind the case to install sometimes... I don't see these things as a major issue.
I think the warranty issue would be a worthwhile arguement if there was a high rate of failure among the obx units. I just haven't seen any come apart.
I don't see the mfactory diff saving $350 dollars of labor w/the above problems. I'm sure this info. sucks for aquafina, as he seems to be a stand up fellow and his finger wand is kind of cool too, I think he's gonna have a hard time being the middle child now...
I strongly agree with all of this.