Topic: University of Minnesota TC Formula SAE fab thread (Read 8896 times)

Colin · « **on:** May 04, 2009, 09:26:30 PM »

I've been on the team for about a year. We're headed to competition in Detoilet in about a week and half. Figured I would show you guys a few pictures of the car and my fab work.

308 18g Stainless header with a muffler made by yours truly. The muffler in the pic is an old one, see other pictures for the new one. Hemmholtz resonator ftw!

Made 8 more horsepower over last years header design on the R6 motor we use.

Us hooking the engine up to the dyno in our Center for Diesel Research. I'm on the left in the yellow shirt

Bad ass glow at ~15k rpm

Me in the car while setting up the suspension

Alignment bars

Testing

This fucker rips. Oh yeah, it can almost pull the front tires off the ground too

jagojon3 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2009, 09:37:22 PM »

Lookin good. I was on our FSAE team a couple years ago, and they do fuckin RIP

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:33:41 PM »

Quote from: Colin on May 04, 2009, 09:26:30 PM

http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n390/formulamn/IMG_2639.jpg

Reason #1 why MEs shouldn't be allowed near a wiring harness, much less a soldering iron or PCB.

Chassis looks tight. Got vids?

Colin · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:50:45 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 04, 2009, 10:33:41 PM

Quote from: Colin on May 04, 2009, 09:26:30 PM
http://i337.photobucket.com/albums/n390/formulamn/IMG_2639.jpg

Reason #1 why MEs shouldn't be allowed near a wiring harness, much less a soldering iron or PCB.

Chassis looks tight. Got vids?

No vids yet. Disassembled and sending the frame to paint tomorrow. Should be back testing this weekend and I'll grab some video.

Yeah.. about the wiring harness. It's rough, but under those wires is a Motec M4. We kicked the person who originally started the harness off that task when they decided to hook the Motec's ground up to a +12 volt source. We have a competent EE guy on it now

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:57:26 PM »

Sounds like overkill. You should tuck the Motec into your backpack and replace it with a $400 AEM.

onlyflash944 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2009, 11:24:49 PM »

VT's FSAE car looks almost the same, only it has a turbo

DmC · « **Reply #6 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:40:45 AM »

You formula sae guys think to much. want to win a race here's how ninja 250 motor lots of boost. You all go for the biggest engine you can get and then you draw through a 22mm restictor plate

Guess what man with a ninja 250 motor and a properly sized turbo you could draw through just fine and make more power and better torque. You guys need to stop getting stuck up each other intellectual assholes (*1)and Build something better then all the other SAE cars that for some reason alll have the same sized engine with no turbo.

It sucks the rules say you can't spray any (oxides) into the motor

*1 OMG Treveor your new plenum design really gives me a big ole stiffy your so smart and intelligent I'm really glad I'm on your team. Your right Ethan omg your idea to use the 600cc engine made me tingle inside I can't wait to install your velocity stack. Let me shine it up for you.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #7 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:58:06 AM »

That's wrong on so many levels, yet so right.

DmC · « **Reply #8 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:10:55 AM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 05, 2009, 12:58:06 AM

That's wrong on so many levels, yet so right.

Yup the scary thing about that wiring harness is that you could probably pop open a few access panels on the space shuttle and find the same work.

Toysrme · « **Reply #9 on:** May 05, 2009, 02:21:32 AM »

baller wish the one i worked on was half as organized & had stuff simpler.
not sure how a 2 cylinder engine chocked with the restrictor would do trying to spool a small turbo. youd be pulling some tricks out trying to get as much midrange as possible.

i want to drive one unrestricted. with 200-300hp. JD get to work on that!

t_cel_t · « **Reply #10 on:** May 05, 2009, 03:07:23 AM »

buddy of mine was on the uw madison team couple years back and he was telling me about the super complicated pneumatic shifter/clutch engagement the team had thought up.(he joined after this was thought up). they apparently where having a lot of trouble getting it to work right, so he tells them you dont need to clutch on a motorcycle tranny. apparently noone rode bikes, he races in the 600cc sportbike class. they ended up dropping that shifter/clutch bullshit.

Toysrme · « **Reply #11 on:** May 05, 2009, 11:19:26 AM »

bout the same thing they told me. they used a pneumatic shifter on their last 2 cars, decided to go back to a normal stick. did keep a clutch / pedal in it tho.
gives you an interesting choice to make if you keep a clutch pedal. there's no room around the steering colum so do you want your brake pedal on the left to for left foot braking or do you want it on the right for heal & toe. imo, the brakes work so god damned good keep it on the left & keep the pissy motors wound up amap

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #12 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:04:04 PM »

One of those hotshot engineering types should send me their pneumatic shifter design. I'm curious about fitting one to a Honda.

t_cel_t · « **Reply #13 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:30:35 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 05, 2009, 12:04:04 PM

One of those hotshot engineering types should send me their pneumatic shifter design. I'm curious about fitting one to a Honda.

its called an automatic transmission, lol
they wanted it to act exactly like an auto because you know shifting in a race car is just such a chore.

i wish someone would reverse engineer an H-to-sequential pattern shifter so we can make them for $50 in sheet metal, that would be sweet.

Colin · « **Reply #14 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:56:09 PM »

Our car isn't anything fancy. We tried a pneumatic shifter, got it to work on the dyno but ran out of time to implement.

There are very few cars that are reliable enough to finish all events. Most that finish all events do well, so that's what we're aiming for - reliability.

Quote from: DmC on May 05, 2009, 12:40:45 AM

You formula sae guys think to much. want to win a race here's how ninja 250 motor lots of boost. You all go for the biggest engine you can get and then you draw through a 22mm restictor plate

Guess what man with a ninja 250 motor and a properly sized turbo you could draw through just fine and make more power and better torque. You guys need to stop getting stuck up each other intellectual assholes (*1)and Build something better then all the other SAE cars that for some reason alll have the same sized engine with no turbo.

It sucks the rules say you can't spray any (oxides) into the motor

*1 OMG Treveor your new plenum design really gives me a big ole stiffy your so smart and intelligent I'm really glad I'm on your team. Your right Ethan omg your idea to use the 600cc engine made me tingle inside I can't wait to install your velocity stack. Let me shine it up for you.

Sounds like a bunch of fags on the teams you've encountered. You're right people get too into design and out there ideas. Simplicity is what we're aiming for. We ran a 250 turbo the year before last, it ran well. I wish we would have done it this year but we had 3+ R6 engines laying around from last years car.

DmC · « **Reply #15 on:** May 05, 2009, 02:13:07 PM »

Cool if you had engines laying around it would beak the RHMT code of ethics to not use them.

Quote from: Toysrme on May 05, 2009, 02:21:32 AM

baller wish the one i worked on was half as organized & had stuff simpler.
not sure how a 2 cylinder engine chocked with the restrictor would do trying to spool a small turbo. youd be pulling some tricks out trying to get as much midrange as possible.

Yeah your right turbo honda's are slow too.

Pretty much dude when the comprssed air meets the restictor plate it's just going to pick up velocity going through it. then the air cools itself off running through the innercooler regains some density and your fine again. the key here is a smaller engine will run more efficiantly with the restiction then a larger one would with the same.

bigwig · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:14:32 PM »

Quote from: DmC on May 05, 2009, 12:40:45 AM

You formula sae guys think to much. want to win a race here's how ninja 250 motor lots of boost. You all go for the biggest engine you can get and then you draw through a 22mm restictor plate

Guess what man with a ninja 250 motor and a properly sized turbo you could draw through just fine and make more power and better torque. You guys need to stop getting stuck up each other intellectual assholes (*1)and Build something better then all the other SAE cars that for some reason alll have the same sized engine with no turbo.

It sucks the rules say you can't spray any (oxides) into the motor

*1 OMG Treveor your new plenum design really gives me a big ole stiffy your so smart and intelligent I'm really glad I'm on your team. Your right Ethan omg your idea to use the 600cc engine made me tingle inside I can't wait to install your velocity stack. Let me shine it up for you.

Turbos on SAE cars are a cluster fuck and a half typically. Read where you need to put the turbo on the intake stream. It's fucked. It causes serious oiling issues too. The only solutions are typically borderline"illegal".

Why SAE cars are typically failures? A bunch of 18-22 year olds with minimal build experience building a car from nothing and waiting the last minute to do so. Getting a car done a month and a half before competition and then actually working out the bugs and driving it would result in a top 20 finish guaranteed. Look how many cars don't finish yearly. See how many points you are awarded for finishing.....

Toysrme · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:27:16 PM »

Quote from: bigwig on May 05, 2009, 06:14:32 PM

Turbos on SAE cars are a cluster fuck and a half typically. Read where you need to put the turbo on the intake stream. It's fucked. It causes serious oiling issues too. The only solutions are typically borderline"illegal".

Why SAE cars are typically failures? A bunch of 18-22 year olds with minimal build experience building a car from nothing and waiting the last minute to do so. Getting a car done a month and a half before competition and then actually working out the bugs and driving it would result in a top 20 finish guaranteed. Look how many cars don't finish yearly. See how many points you are awarded for finishing.....

quoted for the truth.

Foowee · « **Reply #18 on:** May 10, 2009, 03:59:36 PM »

Quote from: DmC on May 05, 2009, 02:13:07 PM

Cool if you had engines laying around it would beak the RHMT code of ethics to not use them.
Quote from: Toysrme on May 05, 2009, 02:21:32 AM
baller wish the one i worked on was half as organized & had stuff simpler.
not sure how a 2 cylinder engine chocked with the restrictor would do trying to spool a small turbo. youd be pulling some tricks out trying to get as much midrange as possible.

Yeah your right turbo honda's are slow too. Pretty much dude when the comprssed airmeets the restictor plate it's just going to pick up velocity going through it. then the air cools itself off running through the innercooler regains some density and your fine again. the key here is a smaller engine will run more efficiantly with the restiction then a larger one would with the same.

Yup, five days late to the party... They can't push compressed air though the restriction, it must be drawn through. I'm sure there is a turbo with a 19/20mm inlet. With a 2 cylinder engine there are no overlapping exhaust events, spool shouldn't be a problem. I don't see why more of these kids don't realize there is no minimum weight in this competition and exploit the fuck out of it...

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2009, 04:43:35 PM »

Its like this old dude I knew that worked at NASA, they kept him around to solve the Engineer's equasions. usually using a ruler and pencil, and whatever manually run machine he needed to turn out a working piece. Never would touch a CAD program, wouldn't even look at a screen, all he went on was a description of use and application. Never hesitated to evaluate metallurgy or integrity, but some of his work has left the atmosphere many times.

snm95ls · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2009, 01:34:18 AM »

Lol. If I end up on a FSAE team, I will be the crotchety old man telling them to keep shit simple.

That wiring does look like a total clusterfuck.

glustic · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2009, 02:07:30 AM »

Pretty sick. That glow is purple as fuck. Any vids?

bigwig · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2009, 06:36:44 PM »

It has nothing to do with simple or not simple. Plenty of teams do some completely ridiculous things that flat out work well. The important thing is building it early enough to actually static test the part. If you wait 2 weeks before the competition to start testing a car you built from the ground up, you're pretty fucked no matter how simple the part. The biggest issue on any FSAE team is getting shit built with enough time to test it.

Toysrme · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2009, 04:21:43 AM »

Quote from: Foowee on May 10, 2009, 03:59:36 PM

Yup, five days late to the party... They can't push compressed air though the restriction, it must be drawn through. I'm sure there is a turbo with a 19/20mm inlet. With a 2 cylinder engine there are no overlapping exhaust events, spool shouldn't be a problem. I don't see why more of these kids don't realize there is no minimum weight in this competition and exploit the fuck out of it...

there were 350lb cars around... before they banned the use of titanium. now youre down with CM and fiber for frames.

Quote from: bigwig on May 11, 2009, 06:36:44 PM

It has nothing to do with simple or not simple. Plenty of teams do some completely ridiculous things that flat out work well. The important thing is building it early enough to actually static test the part. If you wait 2 weeks before the competition to start testing a car you built from the ground up, you're pretty fucked no matter how simple the part. The biggest issue on any FSAE team is getting shit built with enough time to test it.

exactly right. you see all these top teams are teams that had super high dollar cars that were done early. then you see low dollar cars running with them. what did they have in common? the US ones were 2 year olds and the overseas cars were 3 year old cars that had been through the testing ringer.

now they only get to compete for one year so... the high dollar smart teams will be building a year ahead while the cheap teams stuggle to toss one out on a yearly basis.

rsmith2786 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 13, 2009, 01:20:29 AM »

We were supposed to leave for competition an hour and 15 minutes ago.

What is this whole "testing" thing you guys speak of? Slap it together and go.

Right now the car sits without a wiring harness, axles that are an inch too long, incorrect rear upper a-arms...talk about some serious camber, no body, no controls, and no drivetrain.

See you tomorrow. You should come check out our clusterfuck. Last year the car made 17 hp. I got involved this year and pulled out 60.2 hp. Not great but a decent improvement for a noob tuner. With any luck the car won't burn to the ground.

Oh yeah, the engine was tuned with a different exhaust manifold, muffler, and fuel system. It should still run the same right!? It's straight up laughable.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #25 on:** May 13, 2009, 01:40:44 AM »

Holy shit, I should wire/sort/tune/consult on FSAE cars in exchange for one of you didloes pretending to be me in a couple english classes.

Colin · « **Reply #26 on:** May 23, 2009, 02:26:22 PM »

Finished 29th of 124. Not a bad deal, considering the team was 100% new guys with zero experience.

Wiring is getting sorted today. Wheel speeds sensors are going in, as well as accelerometers and linear pots on our shocks. Going to work on launch control. Check out our photobucket for pictures

http://s337.photobucket.com/albums/n390/formulamn/

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #27 on:** May 23, 2009, 05:43:23 PM »

Sorry your car reminds me of this stupid cartoon that fuckin conan obrian plays

CSaddict · « **Reply #28 on:** May 23, 2009, 06:39:24 PM »

Quote from: FreshDA9 on May 23, 2009, 05:43:23 PM

Sorry your car reminds me of this stupid cartoon that fuckin conan obrian plays

Thats because you are clearly gay.

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #29 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:07:40 AM »

wow i never knew that thanks buddy for pointing that out

just wondering why the nose on your car is longer then the other cars in the race?

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Author Topic: University of Minnesota TC Formula SAE fab thread (Read 8896 times)

Colin

Colin

Colin

bigwig

bigwig

Colin