:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Fabrication => Topic started by: 7808 on September 16, 2014, 03:34:08 AM

Title: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on September 16, 2014, 03:34:08 AM
ive been screwin around with my "project car" for going on 3-4yrs.. ya ridiculous. anyways I have an e46 bmw I wanted to turbo . true to my hmt roots doing it the cheap way and best way. I swapped in a iron block 97 motor and converted it to obd1 and im running dual ECUs, the stock one for all the can bus shit and the obd1 dme just for the engine, easy to tune. but that I mean I can buy a tune.  whatever.  car is swapped and running great right now.


heres the situation. i want top mounted turbo. for some reason i just don't like bottom mounted turbos in these cars. look it up and see why.  i bought a rather bulky borg warner s300sx3-60 88 a/r turbo. there is really no manifold i can buy exactly for my setup that the turbo will forsure fit. if there is, i probably cant afford it.

so i am handy with my mig welder, located the flanges needed for a reasonable price (not easy) and am planning to build a log manifold.  this is where you guys come in.  i think i should "neck it up" at least once or twice, and probably just feed the farthest runner from the flange right into the end of a size up of tube. i think what i want to use is sch 40 mild steel butt weld elbows and pipe.

what would you guys use - exact pieces - and how would you design it?

heres a cast manifold for reference

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.designengineering.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimagecache%2Fproduct_full%2F090333_turbo_manifold_bmw_t4_b_0.jpg&hash=c32c529be895c179adfe81127d7f799adf828941)

heres the turbo, as you can see its FAT. i got a good deal on it and should work good for my goals with room to play

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-THrf2_O5raQ/VBUSPGMwdaI/AAAAAAAACDE/NxZ-xrVM53E/w1006-h566-no/20140913_143713.jpg)

ya im probably going to have to cut my hood up.  don't care, already has hail damage
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 92CXyD on September 16, 2014, 07:10:29 AM
Hail ya!!!!  :noel:
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: DSharp on September 16, 2014, 12:42:37 PM
you could always just use steel plate and make a squarish- tapered plenum with short runners.  Not Ideal, but easy to make.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: HiProfile on September 16, 2014, 01:22:58 PM
If firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4, you don't have to neck it up much IMO. At the very least I'd give it more volume for cylinders 4 to 1. After 4 fires, it clears out of that half before 5 fires, and same before 6 fires. Exhaust gases from 6 have the longest to travel, that's why I say make it larger between 2 & 3. A bit more volume for 1 & 2 wouldn't hurt either. A divided log wouldn't really require much, since the firing order alternates between each trio of front/rear cylinders. Feed 4-6 as direct to the closest volute, then 1-3 under that pipe to the farthest.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on September 16, 2014, 05:31:29 PM
Ya thats the firing order. Good point. My other idea was make two 3 runner logs out of two 90s and a T and join them at the flange, but space is gona be pretty tight and a need room for the downpipe.

I think a plenum type manifold would probably work fine, but it wouldnt really be much less work .

Trying to picture how id cut elbows to join the main runner without using straight short tubes or cutting 90s so short to merge them that it makes welding hard and puts it too closeto the head. Ialmost need long 45s
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: DSharp on September 16, 2014, 07:44:25 PM
plenum style would be so easy.  you could make something like this with a welder and a few basic hand tools:  and if you want to make it real easy, get the flat parts cut for you by a shop. 

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.org%2Fmfkp1iilf%2Fimage.jpg&hash=867ab82d9a82e3d1f9e169fdff28c4cb7b638331)

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs11.postimg.org%2Fu9lamwqeb%2Fimage.jpg&hash=faeb96f8bea03cbb4eee6c762401e257ceca4f13)
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ratcityrex on September 16, 2014, 11:43:50 PM
I vote squarefold
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on September 17, 2014, 01:39:25 AM
that's pretty cool.. can you just hit the print button to your cnc waterjet machine now lol

that would make for much easier cutting and welding with no real curves

stick a throttle body on the end of that thing and it looks like some intake manifolds ive seen for this motor

here is my rendering

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8do50GskdS0/VBkdIl1rewI/AAAAAAAACDQ/jrOw5dv5C0w/w986-h566-no/mfold2222.png)

i figure joining them all into one pipe log style i can avoid attempting to build a collector and easier to add pipe to position the flange exactly where i need it

i included another design i liked, chopped stock manifolds joined with pipe, strongly considering this, but id have to get a spare set of manifolds (money i could use to build one from scratch) because i like to keep my stock exhaust just in case. also id need to build a jig or get a spare head, and cant use a gasket to make one because they are not one piece
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: Minor Threat on September 17, 2014, 12:19:30 PM
Keep your stock manifold in case you get a case of the faggots and want to go back to stock? Homo.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on September 17, 2014, 01:41:37 PM
My stuff is always forsale and i dont keep interest in one car very long, i find returning cars to stock usually brings a faster sale. People tend to be scared of heavely modified cars.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: highroller54 on September 17, 2014, 03:18:57 PM
Modded stock manis ftmfw!!!!!!!
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: DSharp on September 17, 2014, 09:25:25 PM
My stuff is always forsale and i dont keep interest in one car very long, i find returning cars to stock usually brings a faster sale. People tend to be scared of heavely modified cars.

So you enjoy wasting your time and money?
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on September 18, 2014, 02:13:10 PM
Ya good one.. isint that kind of how turboing our cars usually turns out? I dont see people earning money turboing there own cars and later selling them for a huge profit really, and ive never had a car i loved so much i wanted to keep it for 10yrs,  thanks for the worthless reply.

Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: crxvtec91 on September 18, 2014, 02:34:09 PM
Ya good one.. isint that kind of how turboing our cars usually turns out? I dont see people earning money turboing there own cars and later selling them for a huge profit really, and ive never had a car i loved so much i wanted to keep it for 10yrs,  thanks for the worthless reply.

1 car, my crx i have had for 11 years!
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on September 18, 2014, 03:27:33 PM
Crx dont count. Wish i wouldnt have sold mine kinda
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: DSharp on September 18, 2014, 10:25:12 PM
Ya good one.. isint that kind of how turboing our cars usually turns out? I dont see people earning money turboing there own cars and later selling them for a huge profit really, and ive never had a car i loved so much i wanted to keep it for 10yrs,  thanks for the worthless reply.

Your welcome
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ohisofly on September 22, 2014, 12:05:48 AM
Is tuning obd1 really that much easier with these? I have a 95 318i sitting around that needs a turbo, but I figured everybody just goes obd2 for tuning these things
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on September 25, 2014, 01:29:41 PM
To have your oem ecu tuned is about the same price obd2 vs obd1 now but swapping my motor to obd1 and using the less restrictive obd1 manifold was just easier because i already needed a intake manifold and engine harness for my mostly bare longblock . The 4cyl 318 is a whole different thing i dont know alot about
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on December 26, 2014, 01:38:33 AM
ya so im going to just make a manifold. ordered a cheap cast one but theres no way im making this fit easily by flippping it and making an adapter like I did last time.

I can get the flanges and elbows in stainless or mild steel

but all I have is a mig with c25.   should I make it out of stainless anyways or is there no point? going to order up parts soon
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ratcityrex on December 26, 2014, 02:58:25 AM
I would go mild steel and Just mig that shit.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: Minor Threat on December 27, 2014, 06:21:56 PM
I would go mild steel and Just mig that shit.

x2

You are obviously not worried about selling it so highly modified so why bother wasting money on nice manifold materials? Especially if it's gonna be mig weld madness.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on January 20, 2015, 04:12:07 AM
I found mild steel sch40 weld els stupid cheap, if anyone is interested. like 1/3 the price of ace stainless. I don't think many people make MS manifolds though.

I might make cyl 123 and 456 there own "logs" that merge at the collector.  I don't think this turbo is going to fit, probably use it anyways.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: JohnHandcock on January 25, 2015, 04:04:45 PM
Where? I cant find any that jewish :Jew:
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ratcityrex on January 26, 2015, 12:21:42 AM
Link on weld els?
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on January 26, 2015, 01:03:43 AM
I think they were $2.49.  but when I added them to my cart, they were on sale for like $1.50, not sure if they still are. either way still the cheapest I was able to find.

http://www.kingmetals.com/Catalog/ItemContent.aspx?ItemNumber=6057&CatalogId=c39&CatalogDetailId=733&NSM=Y (http://www.kingmetals.com/Catalog/ItemContent.aspx?ItemNumber=6057&CatalogId=c39&CatalogDetailId=733&NSM=Y)
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on January 26, 2015, 01:10:09 AM
making the fixture to make the manifold, test fitting, its going to be a tight fit. probably going to have to cut the hood.

heres what im dealin with



(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EOvLyR99Xsg/VMXLpkkDHMI/AAAAAAAACFs/wX_dM-i1dcs/w1006-h566-no/20150125_010458.jpg)
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ratcityrex on January 26, 2015, 01:44:12 AM
Holly fucking shit. I just registered for a account and they are only $1.43 each.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: JohnHandcock on January 26, 2015, 01:56:59 AM
50pcs @ 1.22 that's the 1.25" O0 really wish the 1.5" was cheaper. Most manifolds are made from the 1.5"
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on January 26, 2015, 04:56:54 AM
your welcome. I had to use my skills on the googleweb to find that. I didn't think the $5 or whatever they were on ace seemed right once I figured out they use them to make fences lol


you sure most manifolds are made from 1.5?  that's almost 2" OD, i ordered 10 90s and 10 45s  in 1.25 (1.66" actual OD) and a couple 1.5" 90s in case i step up the main runner/s to 1.5.  never seen a turbo manifold with runners that big.   

feels stupid then im welding dollar elbows to this $110 flange.  only thing i couldn't find cheap
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: JohnHandcock on January 26, 2015, 01:19:06 PM
1.5"refering to hondas but its the both same OD.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on January 26, 2015, 05:28:07 PM
1.5 sch pipe size would be overkill in a honda, (for manifold runners) 1.25sch has a od of 1.66
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: JohnHandcock on January 26, 2015, 05:44:34 PM
I suppose to pick up some  today but ran out of time. Im have to bust out the tig welder O0
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on February 12, 2015, 08:37:28 PM
you guys got any tricks for notching out pipes to merge them into another at 45 degrees without a fancy shop full of tools?  ive been just straight cutting them at the angle then using grinders and grinding wheels to "round" them out to lay against the straight pipe nice, takes forever and sucks

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rnRbtbjf4I4/VN1BsYxNKbI/AAAAAAAACGw/5UmYwpjEfiM/w1013-h570-no/20150212_020417.jpg)
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ratcityrex on February 13, 2015, 12:34:11 AM
Old English 800............. probably the worst tasting malt liquor in the world.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: weirtech on February 13, 2015, 12:40:03 PM
if you have access to a mill, a holesaw would do it.  anther option is a plasma cutter.  make a template and trace it onto the pipe and cut as much as you can with a vertical band saw or an angle grinder.  proper tools can make life much easier.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on February 15, 2015, 06:20:30 PM
got one for $38 after sale and coupon. cutting 1.25 sch  at a 50-55 degree angle is pushing this thing but it works fine.

http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tubing-notcher-42324.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/pipe-tubing-notcher-42324.html)

Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: CSaddict on February 16, 2015, 07:22:13 AM
Usually those tend to be offset to one side and you need to shim the sliding ring.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on February 22, 2015, 02:57:55 PM
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Z-0CEVv_vGA/VOokjX8ecuI/AAAAAAAACHs/UXd_agQsHhg/w997-h561-no/20150222_124649.jpg) this should work
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 92CXyD on February 24, 2015, 03:11:41 PM
I like this  :noel:
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ratcityrex on February 25, 2015, 01:16:46 AM
Looking good
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on February 27, 2015, 12:26:29 AM
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5m4DkEvUcUQ/VO5kbRF2bvI/AAAAAAAACH8/hnHWSNHJ28o/w997-h561-no/20150223_005015.jpg)

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OKbzh67kDy8/VO5l4XbgwLI/AAAAAAAACIk/evsxr2oaxSU/w997-h561-no/20150219_165803.jpg)

what I love about mig welding.. its pretty easy to fill large gaps by dragging a puddle across, and im pretty good at it because I suck at measuring and planning

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4u47AyRWuf8/VO5kzSAdk1I/AAAAAAAACIM/aN4lNbxB2i0/w316-h561-no/20150223_004814.jpg)

messed up, didn't leave enough room to sneak a down pipe past runner 6, had to cut it off and re make it with 2 45s, ended up warping the flange pulled up on that end. had to get creative. I sliced the runner back apart and shoved a piece of steel under #5 and bent it back down using the bolts to pull it. it was pretty bad now its pretty good

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-XW62MIv__9U/VO_GOMUxY5I/AAAAAAAACI4/HgvclsVKsHs/w316-h561-no/20150226_021621.jpg)

Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: 7808 on March 25, 2015, 03:50:06 AM
ya so I pretty much cant fit a wastegate pipe off the manifold anywhere, kinda built my self into a corner.

im thinking about using some 1" OD tube I have and taking a branch off each of the two main runners into a little collector into my 38mm wastegate.  anyone know if this would work ok?
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: ratcityrex on March 25, 2015, 11:39:29 AM
I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Title: Re: manifold dilema - mild steel inline 6 log manifold
Post by: Eggylshatch on March 26, 2015, 12:27:33 PM
Sounds pretty normal to me, and looks like it should be easy enough to do where those two long segments run parallel