:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Engine Management => Topic started by: Eville140 on May 22, 2010, 10:17:00 PM
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Anybody have any clues to help this problem? I keep having the insulator tip on plugs break, they break off clean way up under the threads and then drop down and cover the electrode.
I can't hear any detonation, a/f is super safe as well is timing.
The only thing that I think could be causing it is the two-step, but I need my 2-step :)
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What kind of plugs? Maybe try a different brand?
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I've seen that when debris is present in the combustion chamber. AFAccord had some shop fill his IAB shaft holes with JB Weld, some of it broke free and lingered in a cylinder - he broke a couple and scarred the chamber before it passed out the exhaust. In fact, he spent an afternoon making laps in front of the shop and stopping to check his plugs as the JB Weld bits got smaller and made tinier cuts in the ceramic (after they'd stopped breaking it).
But, yeah. What brand plugs? Have you changed anything recently?
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Plugs are NGK/r BPR5EY 11
Don't think :mexi: material is causing the problem as there isn't any nicks or material in the ceramic tip. It looks pretty good other than the fact it is no longer attached to the plug. This is about the 4th or 5th time it's happened.
I bent the strap up to get the piece off for the picture.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi265.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii212%2FEville140%2F66b06652.jpg&hash=9611ecaf057c65f991b5bcb9a71506a80cb9c320)
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The only time I've seen that is when something struck the center elctrode, and broke or bent it as well as freed up the ceramic.
Sir, NGK's tech hotline puts you in touch with one of the engineers who designs the sparkplugs, I am sure you would get very good input by calling NGK directly. Please share any feedback you get with us?
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The only time I've seen that is when something struck the center elctrode, and broke or bent it as well as freed up the ceramic.
Sir, NGK's tech hotline puts you in touch with one of the engineers who designs the sparkplugs, I am sure you would get very good input by calling NGK directly. Please share any feedback you get with us?
Will do, picked up some Champion plugs a range colder on the way home so I could get it off the trailer. They didn't have any NGK's I flog the shit out of it later today and see what happens.
Sucks that I went to the track and had a plug die, and being the only efi car there I couldn't find anybody with a resistor type plug.
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If you have a resistor plug wire I generally don't worry about whether or not the plugs are resistor. That only seems to fool with COP cars, and rarely some aftermarket bits. Does the standalone you run not play nice with non-resistor plugs?
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Seems to hate them with a passion, it would cause it to reset like crazy. Relays got a workout getting it on the trailer. Even my fuel pressure gauge and tach would not work with them.
the coil/wire setup I'm using is a funky setup form a different toyota.
Only pic I could find quick of the setup
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tegger.com%2Fhondafaq%2Figniter-operation%2Fcoil-over-plug.jpg&hash=6c32dd3fe576efdb4fe0971b820b079b28ef34dd)
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Plugs are NGK/r BPR5EY 11
Is this in a boosted car??? Thats a really hot plug...
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Plugs are NGK/r BPR5EY 11
Is this in a boosted car??? Thats a really hot plug...
I was wondering the same thing. Sounds like you should be running a heat range colder or more.
Maybe a BPR6EY 11 or BPR7EY 11
W/o the 11 at the end it just means it was pre-gaped at 1.1mm = 0.042"
If you are running the wrong heat range you could be heating that plug so hot that you are un-fusing the porcelain from the metal part of the plug. Which would explain the evenness of the porcelain tip bottom.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi265.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii212%2FEville140%2F66b06652.jpg&hash=9611ecaf057c65f991b5bcb9a71506a80cb9c320)
Now looking at that more I'd almost bet that is your whole problem.
Is this in your race car that you have a build thread on?
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Yes, in my starlet. running e85 and around 30# of boost (soon to be 40)
I picked up the "6" equivalent in Champion, going to order some colder NGK's online since parts stores don't seem to carry them.
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Yes, in my starlet. running e85 and around 30# of boost (soon to be 40)
I picked up the "6" equivalent in Champion, going to order some colder NGK's online since parts stores don't seem to carry them.
Did you check w/o the -11 for the NGK?
I find them locally, try BPR6es or BPR6ey. ;D
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You might try a 4g63 plug like the BR7es which does not have the projected tip. (Drop the P from the NGK part # for most plug models). Helps with plug induced detonation.
http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=br7es (http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=br7es)
You have that mirage dont you? Surely you have some plugs laying around or borrow them from it.
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You might try a 4g63 plug like the BR7es which does not have the projected tip. (Drop the P from the NGK part # for most plug models). Helps with plug induced detonation.
http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=br7es (http://www.ngk.com/results_cross.asp?pid=br7es)
You have that mirage dont you? Surely you have some plugs laying around or borrow them from it.
The mirage is being a typical DSM, sitting in the barn not running. Have it about ready for paint, but am having title issues.
Just checked to see what was in it, It has BPR6EIX
Probably stop at the part store tomorrow and see what I can find in a regular plug after I do some reading on iridium plugs.
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SO no one els ehas asked.. how much power??? 4-550 or so id run 7s
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SO no one els ehas asked.. how much power??? 4-550 or so id run 7s
Probably in the 350-375 range now, would like to see 425-450whp. Have to remeber though I'm using a old engine with a 2 valve head that flows well for what it is, but probably lags way behind a stock d-series head especially at low lifts.
And with my current cam, 450 is probably going to take close to 38-40# of boost.
But anywho, going to pick up a couple sets of BR7es at autozone tomorrow and hopefully get some time to rail on it before the next track outing.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi265.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fii212%2FEville140%2FScreenShot007.jpg&hash=bdff4b7ef904313cf6098b5a9f3bd9d4068a19a6)
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The mirage is being a typical DSM, sitting in the barn not running. Have it about ready for paint, but am having title issues.
Just checked to see what was in it, It has BPR6EIX
Probably stop at the part store tomorrow and see what I can find in a regular plug after I do some reading on iridium plugs.
BPR6EIX are early evo plugs. Those would do the job. At your power level, 7's might not be cold enough. Im not familiar with the TC motors at all, so I dont want to say.
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Well made some calls dId some texting and it looks like somewhere along the lines my plug choice got screwed. You guys where all correct on the way to hot of plug, and after talking to a few other 3T turbo guys t looms like the normal plug everybody runs is the BR9ES. Lol. So I was only 4 heat ranges off.
Will report back once I get a few miles on them.
Thanks
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I run 8s all the time, but at 450-5 I dont think theyre neccessary. However ID DEFINATELY go to 7s in your case... 6s are just too hot of a plug. Pics of good ones??? It wont be hard to spot, but ID guess that the 6s are too hot. FOR SURE.
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Man of you have been running 5's and having no det, then i would try some 7's and see how that goes.
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Man of you have been running 5's and having no det, then i would try some 7's and see how that goes.
LOL the whole point of the thread is that he IS detonating, and killing the insulators in the process.
Spiker, plug heat ranges are dependent on the motor. Different engines want different things. What works on a honda might not work best on his 3T.
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Man of you have been running 5's and having no det, then i would try some 7's and see how that goes.
LOL the whole point of the thread is that he IS detonating, and killing the insulators in the process.
Spiker, plug heat ranges are dependent on the motor. Different engines want different things. What works on a honda might not work best on his 3T.
I just thought he was having problems with it breaking off, not det.
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The plug ceramic is getting too hot and breaking is my gut feeling.
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The plug ceramic is getting too hot and breaking is my gut feeling.
This, pretty sure I'm not detonating. Fuel is on the rich side, timing is conservative and the rest of the plug look like new. No specks, spots, or burn tips. The E85 pretty much keeps
them looking like new.
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SO no one els ehas asked.. how much power??? 4-550 or so id run 7s
Probably in the 350-375 range now, would like to see 425-450whp. Have to remeber though I'm using a old engine with a 2 valve head that flows well for what it is, but probably lags way behind a stock d-series head especially at low lifts.
And with my current cam, 450 is probably going to take close to 38-40# of boost.
But anywho, going to pick up a couple sets of BR7es at autozone tomorrow and hopefully get some time to rail on it before the next track outing.
Fat Steve from Nj, you should know who im talking about is shooting for 600+ from his 3tc. Idk wtf he did to the motor ???
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The plug ceramic is getting too hot and breaking is my gut feeling.
This, pretty sure I'm not detonating. Fuel is on the rich side, timing is conservative and the rest of the plug look like new. No specks, spots, or burn tips. The E85 pretty much keeps
them looking like new.
My bad, must have misread or been thinking about another thread.
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Man of you have been running 5's and having no det, then i would try some 7's and see how that goes.
LOL the whole point of the thread is that he IS detonating, and killing the insulators in the process.
Spiker, plug heat ranges are dependent on the motor. Different engines want different things. What works on a honda might not work best on his 3T.
Sir regardless of platform... my gut tells me the range hes using... even with th e 85 is too hot. That has nothing to do with platform. I do understand what you're saying and moreso why its true. I'm not new pumpkin.
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Popped some 9's in gapped at 20
Starts fine, didn't load up at idle, and pulls nice and clean to 8000rpm
Hopefully get a little better time out of it this weekend or next.
Here is a pass with the above screwed plug in the motor.
3tc Starlet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGlEnvAXDAs#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
and my buddies truck(I did the cage so I kinda pucker every time it makes a pass)
http://www.youtube.com/user/JennaKay2010#p/a/u/1/tike9ogL-f0 (http://www.youtube.com/user/JennaKay2010#p/a/u/1/tike9ogL-f0)
I tried to embed these but couldn't figure it the hell out, and the HELP at the top of the page wasn't much help.
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The 9 s might be a tad much.... but if you're not toiling them rockem. Im moving to them for the 700 pulls.
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The 9 s might be a tad much.... but if you're not fouling them rockem. Im moving to them for the 700 pulls. Been using 8s to this point but looking to the 9s for the big power pulls
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8's FTW. I'm not planning on putting 9's in until I start seeing 9xx whp.
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The starlet makes me want to touch myself
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Popped some 9's in gapped at 20
Starts fine, didn't load up at idle, and pulls nice and clean to 8000rpm
Hopefully get a little better time out of it this weekend or next.
Here is a pass with the above screwed plug in the motor.
3tc Starlet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGlEnvAXDAs#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
and my buddies truck(I did the cage so I kinda pucker every time it makes a pass)
http://www.youtube.com/user/JennaKay2010#p/a/u/1/tike9ogL-f0 (http://www.youtube.com/user/JennaKay2010#p/a/u/1/tike9ogL-f0)
I tried to embed these but couldn't figure it the hell out, and the HELP at the top of the page wasn't much help.
Updates?