:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Engine Management => Topic started by: caged on March 13, 2009, 04:57:23 AM

Title: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on March 13, 2009, 04:57:23 AM
I thought I would post up DIY WRX injector hi-flowing. You can use the 01-04 light blue WRX/forestor GT top feed injectors which flow 440cc's or the 01-07 STI pink top feed injectors that flow 565cc's standard. They both end up coming out at about 816cc's each when modified, I used second hand wrx one's which cost me $100NZD which is $50 USD.
The WRX and STI top feed injectors have a strainer on the tip with 12 holes in the end which restrict flow to the desired amount (smaller holes for the wrx).
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg14.imageshack.us%2Fimg14%2F8576%2Fcappedinjector.jpg&hash=6a801ad603bb410c8fee85d979ae048e718f384f) (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cappedinjector.jpg)

There are a few different ways to decap these injectors. I put my injectors into my vice with plastic jaws and clamped it lightly with the bottom facing up. I then used a small file around the outside of the strainer tip. The strainer cap is very thin so be careful not to file too deep, after you have filed all the way around the cap will fall off. Give the tip a tidy up with the file and blow the filings away and the hi-flow injector is done. A few people recommend using a dremel but after seeing a few noobs cut the tops off there injectors I decided that the file was safer. I got a mate to put my injectors onto his flow bench and they all came up around the 816cc mark with less than a .5% variance. :noel: The spray pattern is also great. I currently have them in my van and have had no problems.

Decapped injector is on the left.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg14.imageshack.us%2Fimg14%2F8581%2Finjectorcomparison.jpg&hash=7c77575b7381f26e010f02ae75d8b015ed7fddee) (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=injectorcomparison.jpg)

(Images stolen from  OzLiberty forum)
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on March 13, 2009, 05:26:04 AM
BTW I havent used these on a honda before, but when theres a will theres a way. They have an OBD2 plug and fitted in my mitsubishi L300 fuel rail no probs. They are just a good buget 800+cc injector :noel:
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on March 13, 2009, 07:21:17 AM
On the car Iam running them on atm I have a haltech ECU so I just adjusted the pulse width. I run them on a 2.4L 4cyl with a turbo cam and have a close to stock like idle.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Robb on March 13, 2009, 08:55:51 AM
I wish I had the time/money to actually compare flow differential between separte injectors after 'decapitation' as what the sccobaru dudes claim is the issue is with doing this mod. 

Personally, I think that with the capability to trim individual cylinders and keeping the duty cycle in a reasonable range, it wouldnt be a problem.

Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: dive_miguel on March 14, 2009, 12:08:35 AM
Are these high or low impendence?
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on March 14, 2009, 03:15:34 AM
high
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: CSaddict on March 14, 2009, 10:45:36 AM
Im moving this to EM.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: TTC on March 14, 2009, 12:04:50 PM
I remember people doing this back when i had my subaru, IIRC tho and i could be wrong but im pretty sure it messes up the spray pattern and creates hotspots.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on March 14, 2009, 03:43:44 PM
I got a mate to put my injectors onto his flow bench and they all came up around the 816cc mark with less than a .5% variance. :noel: The spray pattern is also great. I currently have them in my van and have had no problems.

Given that info, I don't think the inconsistant spray/hotspot rumor is just bullshit from n00bs. Take a look at most subie forums, very few people do much beyond buying bolt-ons. No offense to those that have the ability, you just won't find many people willing to risk a DIY on a car that isn't exactly cheap. I know the motors are cheaper than most Honda's, but most have to PAY someone to put it in...

That said, some people will just enlarge the holes, but you need a very delicate touch, a thorough cleaning, and flow testing if you don't want to be guessing. I just wish they were like the typical OBD1 plug. They will definately be my next injector if I boost my beater's b16, since I already have Deka's in my D16.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: SDRAWKCAB on March 14, 2009, 06:35:10 PM
Nice right up.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Robb on March 14, 2009, 08:42:29 PM
I am definitely willing to try this on my 951, I gotta find some of these. 
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on March 15, 2009, 07:29:33 PM
STR-4 injectors look to have a variant of the pintle cap, more like a plug.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: turbo4life on March 22, 2009, 04:02:23 AM
great write up! no more ricer forums fight over huge difference in flow rate's mis leading other people
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: chris on March 25, 2009, 01:57:49 AM
height of the injector in mm?
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Aero on March 25, 2009, 02:14:49 AM
I remember reading about this a few years ago.  I wish more injectors were moddable like this. Nice writeup.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Kain on April 02, 2009, 06:26:29 PM
i highly suggest that you guys do not do this.

Number one, i have tried this on my brotehrs wrx. its an easy and cheap mod.

HOWEVER

flow rates have changed and atomization is almost gone. we sonn replaced them with proper flowing 800cc injectors after they started giving us problems.

Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on April 04, 2009, 05:22:04 PM
height of the injector in mm?

with the injector in the car it is 38-40mm from the injector boss to the fuel rail.


i highly suggest that you guys do not do this.

Number one, i have tried this on my brotehrs wrx. its an easy and cheap mod.

HOWEVER

flow rates have changed and atomization is almost gone. we sonn replaced them with proper flowing 800cc injectors after they started giving us problems.


My atomization is great :). I also have these in my 96 sti with top feed rails and can get it to idle better than the side fed 440cc's. What sort of problems were you getting and what ecu were you running? Ideally you would buy proper 800cc injectors but if i did everything the proper way I wouldn't be on RHMT :noel:.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: patsmx5 on April 04, 2009, 09:35:15 PM
i highly suggest that you guys do not do this.

Number one, i have tried this on my brotehrs wrx. its an easy and cheap mod.

HOWEVER

flow rates have changed and atomization is almost gone. we sonn replaced them with proper flowing 800cc injectors after they started giving us problems.



you also quoted your brothers wrx at 450hp, and it made 300.

drivetrain loss i suppose.  i think your middle name is johnny

 ;D
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 05, 2009, 11:31:17 PM
I don't think a WRX driveline could survive a single 450 whp dyno pass.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Kain on April 15, 2009, 08:51:03 AM
i highly suggest that you guys do not do this.

Number one, i have tried this on my brotehrs wrx. its an easy and cheap mod.

HOWEVER

flow rates have changed and atomization is almost gone. we sonn replaced them with proper flowing 800cc injectors after they started giving us problems.



you also quoted your brothers wrx at 450hp, and it made 300.

drivetrain loss i suppose.  i think your middle name is johnny

 ;D

yah. except, thats not the case.

we threw down 450 whp at around 25 psi of boost with those shitty modified injectors. which i told you

then we swapped em out for some proper 800cc units, and turned the boost down to 19 psi and made 300 whp. which i also told you.

on a 2.5 liter sti block. stock tranny for an 02 wrx. its not liking it one bit. im trying to convnce my brother to go with a haltech e8 and the patch harness to et rid of the shitty subaru ecu and his cobb tuning equipment.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Kain on April 27, 2009, 11:03:48 AM
get rid of cobb and youll be fine.

and when did you tell me this dyno'd 450hp?  you only said you estimated it.

i never held the dyno sheet in my hand or went to that dyno session.

guy at the dyno said it was one of the fastest accelerating wrx he ever saw. i dont know. ive not been in many subarus so i dont know if hes just lieing.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 27, 2009, 02:10:49 PM
450 whp in a WRX is insufficient.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Conceptz-X on April 27, 2009, 08:10:50 PM
im trying to convnce my brother to go with a haltech e8
I wouldn't buy one again!
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on April 28, 2009, 03:01:20 AM
450 is where it starts to become fun in a classic shape wrx. Unfortunately thats were drive train parts become disposable every drag/circuit meet. :yes:.
We got the RX over here from 1993 and I would say turbo Subaru's are the most fragile engine ever, especially the twin turbo legacy's, they do alot of big end bearing. We haven't had too many problems with the 2001+ engines yet. (I work for a Subaru dealership)
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 28, 2009, 01:17:33 PM
I have no 450 whp WRX experience, but since a WRX weighs in like a Mk4 Supra I'm going to say that's slooooooooow after first gear.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on April 28, 2009, 07:14:42 PM
Well the version 1 WRX sti RA that iv been playing with weighs in at 1230kgs (2711pounds) standard. It has around 450awhp and does a 11.1 when it doesn't break a shaft or a gear. 1st gear is is a bit average but 3rd gear is where it becomes fun. (last circuit day we wiped all the teeth off a brand new 3rd gear after 2 laps :noel:) I'm waiting for a cage and a dog box's so we can tune again.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Ravage70 on May 11, 2009, 07:41:49 PM
you can do the same thing to type s and si injectors and get 520cc out of them
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on September 06, 2009, 01:01:39 PM
I recently had a chance to tune a KA-T with a set of decapped WRX injectors, it idles just like stock.  Flow imbalance or poor atomisation problems would make the idle uneven in the lower rpms, but these worked great.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: kgx on September 06, 2009, 01:40:26 PM
i've been running these in my MR2 on E85 for a couple of years now. they idle very well. 750rpm, rock solid. nice thing is if you trim the side tabs off, they plug right into most toyota harnesses and they're highZ so i got to yank the OE resistor box.

they definitely are a bit shorter. i used a camry 5SFE top feed rail, and cut the ends off the stock side feed rail for the injectors to seat into as cups to fit the head. turned out to be a good thing, since they are so short that without the cups, the plug housings were right up against the valve cover. wouldn't have been able to plug them in otherwise.

i can't think of anywhere else you can get ~800cc injectors for ~$100 a set. decapitating them takes all of 5 minutes.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on September 09, 2009, 01:29:25 AM
I will try find the pics I took when I installed them in a D series rail/head, It was really easy. I will be running some In my EVO 2 build also.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Ravage70 on October 09, 2009, 01:39:54 AM
Did this to my new Si injectors. Works great.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: FreshDA9 on October 15, 2009, 01:36:52 PM
JD if using these with ectune what would you use for Injector Battery Offsets? Also i might have someone testing these with a S300.  thank you
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on October 15, 2009, 01:59:19 PM
JD if using these with ectune what would you use for Injector Battery Offsets?

Whatever they need to be.  It really does change from vehicle to vehicle.  Just get it idling stoich at full temp, then start turning on all the electrical load and adjust the batt comp tables at whatever the voltage drops to until the AFR goes back stoich.  Done.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: FreshDA9 on October 15, 2009, 02:04:04 PM
JD if using these with ectune what would you use for Injector Battery Offsets?

Whatever they need to be.  It really does change from vehicle to vehicle.  Just get it idling stoich at full temp, then start turning on all the electrical load and adjust the batt comp tables at whatever the voltage drops to until the AFR goes back stoich.  Done.

Ok will give it a shot now ima ty to get my hands on a set of these when i gets another pay day.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on August 31, 2010, 12:36:55 AM
I will try find the pics I took when I installed them in a D series rail/head, It was really easy. I will be running some In my EVO 2 build also.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on August 31, 2010, 03:53:30 AM
will look a bit harder  ;D
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: t_cel_t on August 31, 2010, 06:42:17 PM
someone sell me some of these, my car needs e85
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: crxvtec91 on September 01, 2010, 12:07:59 AM
someone sell me some of these, my car needs e85

There cheap and easy to mod, look at my build thread.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: t_cel_t on September 01, 2010, 12:08:59 AM
someone sell me some of these, my car needs e85

There cheap and easy to mod, look at my build thread.
i meant someone sell me a set- modded or not
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: kgx on September 01, 2010, 01:44:35 PM
you're lookin on the wrong forum. find a wrx forum, usually a local/regional forum. lots of those fucks still don't know about this. in fact, lots of those fucks still buy "upgraded" injectors from vendors for $300+ that are just decapitated stock injectors.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on September 01, 2010, 11:15:24 PM
Even after telling him about this, my friend's brother bought "pink" injectors for some retarded price. He also treats jobs like Hotrex treated manifold construction & shipping, so who knows.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on September 07, 2010, 06:32:51 PM
I will try find the pics I took when I installed them in a D series rail/head, It was really easy. I will be running some In my EVO 2 build also.

Sorry cant get photos, had a fucken earth quake and lost my computer.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on September 08, 2010, 09:54:38 AM
Did it fall down a huge crack, or did some nog loot it?
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on September 11, 2010, 05:36:14 PM
Did it fall down a huge crack, or did some nog loot it?

It got stood on then under water. my cousins mate is a dairy farmer and lost 6 cows down cracks haha.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: walter on September 17, 2010, 09:58:43 AM
I will try find the pics I took when I installed them in a D series rail/head, It was really easy. I will be running some In my EVO 2 build also.

pics?
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: ratcityrex on September 17, 2010, 10:37:46 AM
Did it fall down a huge crack, or did some nog loot it?

It got stood on then under water. my cousins mate is a dairy farmer and lost 6 cows down cracks haha.

Pics or it didn't happen! :D
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: caged on September 19, 2010, 04:47:55 AM
I will try find the pics I took when I installed them in a D series rail/head, It was really easy. I will be running some In my EVO 2 build also.

pics?

I will try find the pics I took when I installed them in a D series rail/head, It was really easy. I will be running some In my EVO 2 build also.

Sorry cant get photos, had a fucken earth quake and lost my computer.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: t_cel_t on October 02, 2010, 04:11:49 PM
just got my set, $78 shipped  :P
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on October 02, 2010, 06:15:45 PM
I traded half my tune fee on an 02 wagon for his stock set.  They look super easy to decap, too, it's literally a press fit with maybe a friction weld; you'd be dumb to hurt them.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: t_cel_t on October 02, 2010, 08:41:57 PM
i thought i got ripped off at first, these things are tiny
suby 440 vs supra 440cc
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi30.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fc304%2Fagent_jwa%2FIMAG0086.jpg&hash=d6e32b8597d27c7ccc9f09c82a38796b73f3ba8d)
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: TTC on October 03, 2010, 10:12:30 AM
I thought WRX was side feed? Is it really that easy JD? Does messing with the battery correction change pws enough to alter tune?
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Teg2boo on October 03, 2010, 11:25:44 AM
Damn, the connector is bigger than the injector itself  :?:
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Tim on October 03, 2010, 11:50:32 PM
My set ran me 60 shipped
Have yet to chuck them up in my drill press yet though
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: t_cel_t on October 04, 2010, 01:18:49 AM
so i decapped mine today, just hold them down and use a flat file and cut away from that bottom at like a 45 degree angle.
first one took me about 5 min, other ones were off in a couple mins.

cool thing is they fit perfectly in my rail and manifold and the little posts the rail bolts to has some plastic spacers that when removed are like the perfect length.
oh and the clips on my car are exactly the same meaning no filing or anything.

going on my 5efe, hopefully tuning on e85 tomorrow.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: DSharp on October 04, 2010, 08:06:06 AM
I'm going to buy some today.  Ill install them into the Honda and try to get some pics and injector dimensions up for the rest of you.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on October 04, 2010, 09:34:30 AM
Pics or FUCK YOU
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: t_cel_t on October 04, 2010, 07:41:46 PM
i scaled the injectors to be 840cc in megasquirt and it fired up the first crank, was actually running rich  :evil:
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on October 04, 2010, 11:46:30 PM
Seems like it was a productive day on the WRX injector front.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/joeymisanthropy/Misce/My%20Laughable%20Skills%20as%20a%20Machinist/201010041230421.jpg (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/joeymisanthropy/Misce/My%20Laughable%20Skills%20as%20a%20Machinist/201010041230421.jpg)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/joeymisanthropy/Misce/My%20Laughable%20Skills%20as%20a%20Machinist/20101004170615.jpg (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/joeymisanthropy/Misce/My%20Laughable%20Skills%20as%20a%20Machinist/20101004170615.jpg)

Pretty simple, I chucked them up and held a small file against them.  ~1100 rpms, took a minute and a half apiece.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on October 05, 2010, 02:03:11 AM
stop biting your nails JD.   
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on October 05, 2010, 07:06:48 AM
I only so it when watching movies.  Kid forces me to.  Parenthood - the ultimate Catch-22.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on November 20, 2011, 11:39:56 PM
For what it's worth, rock auto has lots of remanned injectors for $150 a set that open up past 700cc. They also cross-reference what injectors they're used on in case you happen upon a cheap local sale.


12mm o-ring:
tC 330->6??cc
rx8 380/420->620/750cc
older wrx baby blue 440->820cc
newer wrx dark blue 565->1040cc

14mm o-ring:
RSX 310->520cc
spec-v 310->6??cc
rdx 440->8??cc


ATM I'm hooked on Honda bike injectors. They're the same (short) size of WRX injectors, and fairly large. They're plentiful and very cheap. I hope to get some better flow numbers in 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on November 21, 2011, 09:38:12 AM
Honda bike injectors are either WRX style, or a 25mm shorter flavor of tC/RAV4/Highlander 2AZ core.  I guess the tC gets the purple cores like the RAV4 and are 330cc?  Because the greens are 370cc.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on November 21, 2011, 10:29:52 AM
Maybe so, I haven't tested them. But all the limited info I've seen is 330cc for the greens I have. 370cc would be even better.

BTW I figure even those 25mm shorter CBR injectors would fit if they had extensions. It seems the 06+ bikes have them, but only in the plastic fuel rails. The metal rails contain the longer style. The other oddballs are the 03-04 600rr secondaries, which are wrx-size but have a weird cone on their body. It can be ignored or probably filed/machined off.

Right now I have both blue-green styles - the full body and the stepped body.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on November 21, 2011, 11:52:39 AM
The greens I have came out of some 2AZ that was sent to drop into a Highlander we did a motor swap on.  The Highlander had the exact same core in purple, so we retained those and I kept the greens.  I remember it not being the "correct" engine as Crazy Dave was bitching to high heaven that he had to swap over a bunch of stuff to make it bolt in, including the front cover IIRC.  Anyway, 370cc, did them same day all at once with a bunch of other injectors, pretty sure my numbers are right buuuuuut we've all seen my injector bench.  :P

The stepped CBRs are the same length as the true barrel CBRs are the same length as dist Honda injectors.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: crxvtec91 on November 21, 2011, 12:07:39 PM
I have a set of blacks that are from the 900+cbr, short/ black in color.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: PhilStubbs on November 21, 2011, 12:15:31 PM
I don't have anything productive to add(i just want to subscribe to this thread)except, don't take the tip off of cobalt ss injectors. You have to just remove material from the screen area. If you decap them like all of the others, they won't close.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on November 21, 2011, 12:48:08 PM
Das has decapped a similar tipped (different body) core, looks like ragged ass.  He only sent me single injectors instead of a set so I couldn't compare flow rates (which is MORE important than single injector static flow) so they sit here until Mr. Evans drops by to pick them up for him.  Also, the Bosch cores that FIC900/ID1000/Bosch Motorsports sells are NOT anything I'd modify the tips of unless I had Passenger's machine shop, and then it's a huge waste of time to use that sort of equipment for being cheap.  Pencil the hard tipped Bosch cores as top of the list un-decappable, followed by the Cobalt barrels and "ribbed" body Bosch cores used by Ford/GM (early 5.4 Triton/SN99 pre-blower Cobra 24#, LS1, etc).  You can decap the latter but flow quality is for shit.

I'm really not feeling decaps at all, you can get them rich enough to support impressive power but the part throttle residues on the ceramic look like trash.  Putting them into a motor is like feeding an olympic athlete McDonalds and thinking it's the way to win.

I do, however, like these sexy ass orange 08+ CBR600 airbox injectorators I have sitting here.  Haven't flowed them yet, but they look like solid MPG units.   :noel:
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: PhilStubbs on November 21, 2011, 01:25:23 PM
I'm with you on decapping, seems fine for a super budget race car, but something you are dumping a little cash into or drive a bunch could benefit from $300 injectors.

I can't wait to try these cbr injectors I have on the mpg crx.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on November 21, 2011, 05:28:29 PM
Perfect for a GRM challenge car, IMO.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on November 21, 2011, 06:30:17 PM
For next year I'll try to get some duplicate CBR's into a supercharged car and see what all changes - power, throttle response, mpg, etc. As for bosch EV6's, I think the only viable solution is to redrill the holes. They also seem to have a 70* spray pattern when decapped, which sucks for Hondas. In the same sense the smaller densos suck, since they have a narrow spream similar to lucas disc-types. I did notice they seem to increase by a similar amount (>250%), so maybe it depends on the core.

Despite their decapped spray angle, I did find a simple way to decap Bosch injectors. Make a simple ficture (aluminum block) with a hole the injector nozzle can rotate in, then have a slot that a dremil bit rests on at a 45* angle. Definately not for people who can't do fine work like soldering.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: PhilStubbs on November 21, 2011, 08:05:16 PM
Perfect for a GRM challenge car, IMO.

yup, that was the plan. the $100 850's from fuel injector clinic worked out well though
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Metalbob on December 12, 2011, 08:53:58 PM
anyone know of a good place to get some pigtails for the blue injectors? I saw them on ebay but they look kind of chinsy.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on December 12, 2011, 09:41:21 PM
Most bikes (honda, yamaha, etc) use the same style. They won't be clean, but they will last longer than your modified motor. And they're cheap.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 12, 2011, 10:14:01 PM
90s Toyota, topfeed WRX, Nissan.  bmotorsports.com, look for the Sumitomo connector.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: PhilStubbs on December 13, 2011, 07:48:42 AM
You have already gotten more than you deserve follow the rules for an answer. Intro post stat!! And not a Honda-tech intro post, a porn infused intro post.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 13, 2011, 09:14:40 AM
I have removed all traces of n00b faggotry from this perfectly good tech thread.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on December 15, 2011, 08:18:26 PM
So I got some new cores to play with today. I took a risk on the Bosch EV14's (aka ID style). They were like densos to decap, except a smaller tip.

Anyways I ground them at an angle like ID does, and they punched out from ~250cc (24lb) to 705cc @43.5psi! ;DDD They still mist like crazy and don't spray a wide cone like EV6's. The down side is they're 14mm seals, but they still fit if you double up 12mm o-rings. I'll definitely be working on more, so I'll probably cut the ends down for 12mm rails.

Edit: In case you nogs don't know, EV14's have two integrated internal filters (screen and filter). The T1/other adapters have filters because people bitch about not having replacable filters.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on December 17, 2011, 12:26:28 AM
The guy I got these from said he'll sell me 10 more sets. This will be a great x-mas.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: robus on December 18, 2011, 06:33:06 AM
What about the Denso from the gtr35, can they be decapped? Stock flow supposedly 570cc.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy138%2Frobineticus%2FKGrHqMOKj0E6mQp4CHVBOuR1EJNw60_12.gif&hash=5deb8e49db72c53b1bc74451768a6173b497efd0)
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 18, 2011, 07:08:38 AM
That's a Denso 12 hole injector.  I'm not sure what the stepped body variant flows decapped.  Not sure I'd decap on anything that wasn't a GRM or other junkyard build... if you have a few bucks there's nothing wrong with grabbing a core like that and turning up the fuel pressure.  They deal with higher pressures similarly to the Bosch Motorsports cores that ID and FIC resell.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: PhilStubbs on December 18, 2011, 08:24:02 AM
That seems like a great street car injector as is. Great atomization for idle and mpg and will support plenty of power for street use
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on December 18, 2011, 03:01:10 PM
What about the Denso from the gtr35, can they be decapped? Stock flow supposedly 570cc.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi4.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fy138%2Frobineticus%2FKGrHqMOKj0E6mQp4CHVBOuR1EJNw60_12.gif&hash=5deb8e49db72c53b1bc74451768a6173b497efd0)

If you can get them cheap, do it. The Subaru blues start at 565cc and decap to around 1025cc, and I bet they're the same besides o-ring size and the molded lugs.

JD the ball of the smaller and disc design of the larger densos seem to atomize just fine. ID's cores are basicly decapped injectors, and it's a large ball design. They'll still have far better atomization than an old pintle-style EV1. Hell DSM's had directional caps that create large droplets and idle 1.5L motors fine.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: robus on December 18, 2011, 04:07:09 PM
Yep, just bought 6 of them for 140$. So I was thinking, I can get two more and decap them if I want to go that way later on. :noel:
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on December 18, 2011, 04:48:09 PM
I'd suggest you decap all 6, spend $10 per to flow them, then use the 4 closest matched injectors.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 18, 2011, 10:01:42 PM
JD the ball of the smaller and disc design of the larger densos seem to atomize just fine.

There is a difference between seems and does.


ID's cores are basicly decapped injectors, and it's a large ball design.

Basically, as in not exactly?  Do tell.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on December 18, 2011, 11:54:37 PM
Have you seen the difference in spray pattern with your own eyes? Tuesday I'll toss on a capped denso, a decapped ball-style denso, a decapped disc-style denso, and a decapped EV14. I'll take some vids, then we can see who's "basically" wrong.

I guess the better question is how many cars have you delt with that ran decapped injectors that were matched? Besides ID's of course.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 19, 2011, 07:26:53 AM
Yes I've seen it, I've flowed a few sets myself if you remember.  I've also run them in cars, tuned them on a dyno, and then read the plugs afterwards.  The Bosch Motorsports units may or may not be a precision core that can be decapped - IDK as I've never touched a set to do that to them- but the Denso is a reasonably approximate core with a precision cap.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on January 07, 2012, 12:10:19 PM
Yep, just bought 6 of them for 140$. So I was thinking, I can get two more and decap them if I want to go that way later on. :noel:

I almost got a set myself, but noticed something when I did research.

You'll either want to decap them, or run an extended top hats. They're a twin-cone spray, but they're designed to be clocked 90*. Mounted like a stock B-series injector (clip top/forward), you'll have one cone spraying towards the top of the divider and one towards the bottom of the divider. They'll only spray towards each valve if the connector is on the side of the injector.


Notice how they injector clip is pointing sideways:

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gtrblog.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F05%2Fsaurus-injector-test-001.jpg&hash=8c08b1c3f6c87dccb56f6a1221ac17c76c8c9123)
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: robus on January 15, 2012, 12:20:01 PM
Darn, I had seen those pics but hadn't noticed the 90-degree issue. :mexi:
Those injectors are pretty small to start with, and I was half thinking about running extended hats already - guess it's a must now.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on January 19, 2012, 11:12:01 PM
Soon I'm going to get some rough flow on 1.88mm, 2.54mm, and 2.68mm diameter orifice Denso injectors. I'm going to guess about 550cc, 650cc, and 700cc. They're from Mustang GT (purple), 5.3L Chevy flex motor (black), and QR25 motor (green). For the time being I'm keeping my CBR injectors intact.

Interesting fact - the black cores are what Five-O Motorsports uses to make their 1000cc+ injectors. They just press the plungers further into the armatures.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: sewell94 on January 20, 2012, 02:41:03 AM
Same as Injector Wizards, iirc rx8 injectors are whats used. Increasing travel is the worst way to get more flow as it results in crappy responce times and spray pattern. 

Soon I'm going to get some rough flow on 1.88mm, 2.54mm, and 2.68mm diameter orifice Denso injectors. I'm going to guess about 550cc, 650cc, and 700cc. They're from Mustang GT (purple), 5.3L Chevy flex motor (black), and QR25 motor (green). For the time being I'm keeping my CBR injectors intact.

Interesting fact - the black cores are what Five-O Motorsports uses to make their 1000cc+ injectors. They just press the plungers further into the armatures.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on January 22, 2012, 09:18:09 PM
I got some weird results, but I only tested 1 injector per color. It's fucking cold and the o-rings are as pliable as hard plastic.

All were tested against a 204cc injector, which always flowed 200cc with my fluid - 50cc in 15 sec. Purple = 560cc, green = 700cc, black = 740cc. My only guess is the black injectors open the plunger further, or there is shit in the green injector. I'll have better results later when I get the cleaning-side of things on track.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on January 25, 2012, 11:06:45 PM
Fu...oh just read the pic.




(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg837.imageshack.us%2Fimg837%2F4641%2Finjectorfu3.jpg&hash=d13cb8be8a53ff91cb4be4f09cce1fa12d76476a)
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: DasPoop on February 02, 2012, 08:11:35 PM
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi824.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fzz167%2FSlotRacer%2FIMAG0214.jpg&hash=534a19bd22e16a0671d07e890cabf7bb69357c35)

Direct fit  :noel:
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: robus on May 13, 2013, 03:46:36 AM
Question to the experts here...
I see these guys in japan installed a nozzle cap to make a twin spray from a cone spray style injector. Can it be done with decapped Bosch or Denso injectors? Equipment required??

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.g-saurus.jp%2F03works%2F03works_data%2F03_works_asnu_cap3.jpg&hash=e02112907330befb8f1fc05af18a20d601443624)

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.g-saurus.jp%2F03works%2F03works_data%2F03_works_asnu_kaku.jpg&hash=58fc2c25f3d47b3652d9a2032343f6844fb0dcf2)

http://www.g-saurus.jp/02parts/02parts_asnu.html (http://www.g-saurus.jp/02parts/02parts_asnu.html)
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: HiProfile on May 18, 2013, 09:39:03 AM
A minature robotic TIG welder or a pro of pro's TIG weldor. Then you need a micro-EDM machine to cut the plates, or micro carbide drill bit (which requires a large batch since they'll all be off a large percentage).

Since you can get lots of OEM injectors with twin cone sprays, it's not a good idea. GT-R, CBR 954, Mustang 5.0, tC 2.4L, RDX, etc all have twin cone sprays. Most higher end vehicles from the last 5 yrs with 2 intake valves seem to have them.
Title: Re: Decapping WRX injectors
Post by: crxvtec91 on January 18, 2016, 01:21:43 PM
Bumping this post so I can find it later.