:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 06:25:11 PM

Title: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 06:25:11 PM
 So I finalley got my motor in, and cleared alll Cells. Then went for a test dive. Car seemed to be doing ok, untill it hit boost. Then it would sputter/bog.
I had to shift every time boost would kick in. I was in 5th gear doing 40mph on the freeway.

What am I over looking? Cuplers seem fine. No vac lines appear to be off.

This is my 1st boosted motor so take it easy on me fellas.

if you want a run down of my set up , I can post it aswell.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 06:28:42 PM
Afr's as you get to boost?
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on July 12, 2009, 06:32:44 PM
You went boost? WTF has the world come to?

What's the setup? What spark plugs, what management?
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on July 12, 2009, 07:16:56 PM
probably stock ecu???
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 07:47:34 PM
yeah, joser I went boost. haha.

Not a stock map. This motor /tune came out of my freinds AWD Turbo CRX. Witch was also in his AWD agovan.  And now in my CRX.

Don't have a A/F guage hooked up. But it feels like it might not be getting enough fuel. (that make scence).

quick vids of the motor running, and rwd burn out. When It was in the old crx.
4wd crx project AWD turbo pulls and a launch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv4Gc6brc9U#lq-hq-vhq)
4wd crx project AWD turbo part 3 gravel burn out #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIznC5GuNYM#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 08:24:39 PM
Bogging is typically too much fuel.

No A/F gauge = basically no help. Unless you are good at reading plugs, but if you were you wouldn't be posting here.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: Joseph Davis on July 12, 2009, 10:17:13 PM
What he said.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 10:31:22 PM
then tomarrow, I'll go get me a A/F guage, and some new plugs Just incase. 


Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on July 12, 2009, 10:38:25 PM
No nigger, not an a/f gauge. You need a wideband puta.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
on my buget, dang a wideband?. Joser hook me up I know you got something that will make this crx quick.

BTW, you back in Yaks?
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 10:44:12 PM
Quote from: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
on my buget, dang a wideband?...

Or become proficient at reading plugs, one and/or the other.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 10:45:52 PM
on my way out the door to pull plugs. See how these babys look.

Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 10:54:01 PM
Things you need to do to read plugs:

-Fresh set of plugs
-Make a run up to where the issue is, turn off car RIGHT THEN.
-Pull over with out restarting car
-Pull plugs
-Examine with magnifying glass.

Adjust and repeat as necessary.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 10:58:01 PM
^^ go to know. In that case. I have to wait untill to marrow to go to Autozone to get new plugs , so i can try this.

Special recomandations for plugs? brand,gap setting,ect??
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 11:03:54 PM
http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=3534.0 (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=3534.0)
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 11:16:13 PM
so cool.  As soon as Auto parts store opens, I'm there.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 11:18:30 PM
Quote from: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 11:16:13 PM
so cool.  As soon as Auto parts store opens, I'm there.

While your out pick up a big 10x magnifying glass.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 11:22:04 PM
hell yeah, I'm going to fry some ants inthe sun .   J/K 
thanx for your help. I will update tomarrow, with new plugs. See whats going on.

Joser, where you at? If your in Yaks hit me up. I could use a second set of eyes.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on July 12, 2009, 11:34:05 PM
I'm in Yakima, been here for over a month. Give me a call. I work at Borton right down the street from where you used to live(was it you that moved, or Kukes?), lol. So I can go to your house after work(6pm ish). My new laptop comes in tomorrow, so maybe we can work out a deal to get you tuned later on this week.

Get some NGK 5791(bkr7e11). What's the rest of the setup?
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 13, 2009, 02:13:27 AM
Your working @ Borton....manI'm over there fixing there shit all the time (hysters/trucks/ect).

I live about a mile from there. Hit me up, I'll get the plugs tomarrow. I'm off the next 3days. We can work something out.

the set up:

D16A block w/Z6 Head
9:0.1 Arias pistons
Eagle rods
DSM 450 inj
SK2 IM w/LS TB
NSR mani
T3 42/48 turbo
36mm  WG
Blitz BOV
and the usal AEM cam gear/ARP headstuds/ect/ect

got a little bigger turbo on the shelf, but need to rebuild it. This build was ment to be for Auto-X mainly.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: Joseph Davis on July 13, 2009, 05:08:51 AM
Quote from: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 11:18:30 PM
Quote from: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 11:16:13 PM
so cool.  As soon as Auto parts store opens, I'm there.

While your out pick up a big 10x magnifying glass.

China Freight has $3 sets of jewelers loupes.  Anything bigger than 3X does a good job.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 13, 2009, 09:44:30 AM
Quote from: Joseph Davis on July 13, 2009, 05:08:51 AM
Quote from: dvst8r on July 12, 2009, 11:18:30 PM
Quote from: 91' LS-VTEC on July 12, 2009, 11:16:13 PM
so cool.  As soon as Auto parts store opens, I'm there.

While your out pick up a big 10x magnifying glass.

China Freight has $3 sets of jewelers loupes.  Anything bigger than 3X does a good job.

I'm just getting into reading plugs myself and I like the super huge novelty sized magnifying glass, as it is easier to look through and take pictures magnified, but you can't argue with $3...
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: crxvtec91 on July 13, 2009, 10:28:28 AM
Get rid of the "SK2 IM w/LS TB" replace with ported Z6 intake mani/ ported + spacer+ 70mm tb; you can get this from
Chris M (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=45). BTW after selling the sknkfool mani and buying everything from
Chris M (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=45) you will have made more power and still have money in the bank!
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: dvst8r on July 13, 2009, 10:44:21 AM
Quote from: crxvtec91 on July 13, 2009, 10:28:28 AM
Get rid of the "SK2 IM w/LS TB" replace with ported Z6 intake mani/ ported + spacer+ 70mm tb; you can get this from
Chris M (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=45). BTW after selling the sknkfool mani and buying everything from
Chris M (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=45) you will have made more power and still have money in the bank!
I hope your at least getting a free throttle body for that...

Quote from: crxvtec91 on July 13, 2009, 10:33:52 AM
Quote from: chris M on July 13, 2009, 02:05:43 AM
You will see improvedthrottle response and no you will not see any bucking. there are alot of members running these all with great success.

Hum... should I get one of these..... Chris hoe much more would I have to send? :noel:

 :P
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 14, 2009, 11:54:33 AM
Sorry No Update.

Spent the whole day fishing yestarday.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi227.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fdd224%2FATTNSEEKR%2Flinesnap-smiley.gif&hash=60dd93707f1f68bb9cb8bf8386cb91c9c52e8dc6)
Going to go get plugs today.   

Joser, my phone went dead, since it was searching for service the whole day. Hit me up today after work.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: keelay on July 14, 2009, 11:42:48 PM
spell check can be your friend  :noel:
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: jeffsciv23 on July 15, 2009, 01:57:56 PM
im not sure spelling would affect the motor when going into boost. i would check the plug gap, might be too big. put the new ones down to .30 and see if that helps.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on July 15, 2009, 08:36:41 PM
SP* great option, but I always forget to use it. Not really I just don't use it. Any smoochie boochie, bitchez.

We looked at the plugs, and put in new ones. They where fine. Jose can chime in with more details on that. He (Joser) aslo took home the chip and looked over the program,and its seem to be good aswell.

So now, I'm just waiting for my wife to get home so I can steal her dizzy and swap that out. Since I keep getting a code 9 , every once and awile.

Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on July 15, 2009, 09:24:21 PM
Plugs were extremely fouled out, but nothing else besides that. Put in new plugs, and then I went for a quick run. It bogs out completely as soon as it goes over 0in/hg. It doesn't matter what throttle position is, or what rpms. It's like it hits a fucking wall or something.

The rpm needle doesn't fluctuate and everything is hooked up correctly. I took a look at the .bin and it was good. It was getting a code 9, so we'll see what happens when he replaces the ignitor/dizzy.

It has a walbro with DSM injectors running OEM ignition. Nothing weird or odd about the setup itself.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: Joseph Davis on July 16, 2009, 07:42:03 PM
Have you tried redoing the .bin?  Crome is generally a LOT better than UD was, but once or twice I've had it corrupt a .bin which causes problems like that.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: Joseph Davis on July 16, 2009, 07:42:37 PM
Or, not "like that" so much as wierd random stuff or all around running like shit.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on July 16, 2009, 09:03:43 PM
No, I haven't. If a new dizzy doesn't fix the issue, then I'll try that next.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on July 19, 2009, 05:20:28 PM
Just got a text from him. Says code 9 is gone(replaced dizzy) and it still bogs. Now it bogs before boost, he says.

Might get off my lazy ass and go over there(20 min drive).
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on August 05, 2009, 05:42:29 PM
Well, spent all day yesterday drinking and working on this pos.

First thing we did was hook up my tuning shit and go for a run hoping it was a tuning problem. Nope, still bogged out like a motherfucker even with fuel values of 2000 from 3psi+. It was reading 17:1 afrs.

Next thing, we checked all the wiring. The car is a crx converted to mpfi and obd1. The car had some stupid, funky injector/resistor wiring so we got an unmolested harness and went to work. We fixed all the weird wiring issues but that still didn't fix the issue at hand.

We were fucking stumped. Then, out of fucking desperation we said fuck it and looked at the fuel filter. Sure as fuck, we couldn't even blow through it. It's a mutherfucken Earls fuel filter, so we didn't think it would be clogged or even be bad. But the car had been sitting for about 3 years.

Took the filter element out of it and went for a test drive. Hit 20psi real quick.  :noel: I turned down the boost controller and have it tuned to 8psi so far.

For some reason though, the temp gauge and rpm gauges weren't working and there's a few other odds and ends that need to be addressed before we continue tuning. coughneedsnewfuckingbrakescough.

Will have panty ripper vids as soon as we slap a 3bar on the bitch. We'll probably run 15psi on the stock map for a while tho.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on August 05, 2009, 06:42:06 PM
What a PITA.
As for the lights,tach,ect going out. I'll have to looking into that. Everything was working until the end of the day.

Nevertheless, I'm glad this POS is now drivable.
Thanx Joser, Kenny, Kukes. For a long days work. Funy thing is we didn't run out of beer. :o
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on August 16, 2009, 08:18:04 PM
This bitch is almost ready for wednesday, the last test n tune at the local track. Just need to find a battery tie down and fix a boost leak we made today while tuning.

All I gotta say, this thing needs a bigger turbo.

Vids on wednesday. here's some pics for now
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh193%2Fd112crzy%2FCesarsCRX001.jpg&hash=ed8400e12578f3f3b89fab3c7ebe108af912eca3)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh193%2Fd112crzy%2FCesarsCRX003.jpg&hash=830b77df69dd13466b78c0fe7ec0485605de7843)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh193%2Fd112crzy%2FCesarsCRX005.jpg&hash=c41548b5c40b8cbf275f64a2148651fe34d25283)
wiring in a tach, in case the stock tach goes out on us again. It's blown that fuse a few times already.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh193%2Fd112crzy%2FCesarsCRX008.jpg&hash=7fc1977b4fa18b935b8561e7810a1b333b413bfe)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh193%2Fd112crzy%2FCesarsCRX009.jpg&hash=2e83fa5ca4d11d1776cc83d4b98488f5e56d0dcf)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh193%2Fd112crzy%2FCesarsCRX016.jpg&hash=b0408dee325c24fd79c9de6fb485ed4ce0eedd5c)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi64.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh193%2Fd112crzy%2FCesarsCRX012.jpg&hash=7ebc8eceebdf98258b4f2c79e56114d4ce9aba37)

We're hoping for mid 13's, but I want 12's.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on August 28, 2009, 12:13:41 PM
Well we went that same day and did a little tuning. Boost was @ 11psi and fuel was @ 42psi. Car felt great. Only problem at the end of the day. The chip didn't burn rite so the program didn't work in my ecu.

Last sunday we spent some time on it again. Drove a little more. Now the boost is @ 15ish?psi @ fuel is at 60psi.   Honestly, is felt quicker & more responcive @ 11lbs of boost.

Someone that day said with a 255 fuel pump, the fuel pressure should be @ 50psi. Witch at one point it was raised to.  I had to leave that day. So I left the car is Josers hands. At the end of the day , we ended up @ 60psi (fuel)

Whats going on here? Is the turbo being maxed out? would that explain why it feels like it take longer now to spool? 

It was also mentioned that day  "I turnd the boost controler up 1 1/2 turn, and it won't go past 15 any more" .  Is this also a sign that its maxed out. 

This car & build was built with autoX in mind. Not trying to brake 400whp on a .42/.48   

Any advise? ???
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: Joseph Davis on August 28, 2009, 12:15:48 PM
Timing.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: 91' LS-VTEC on August 28, 2009, 12:18:21 PM
I'll have to wait for Joser to chime in and see if he even messed with it.   
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: jeffsciv23 on August 28, 2009, 04:13:14 PM
yeah that little turbo is probly pretty uneffeciant at 15psi. swap it out for that 60/63 i sold you, now that would pull alot better
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: ratcityrex on August 28, 2009, 05:02:50 PM
I love the radiator setup. What size wastegate spring do you have in there?
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on August 29, 2009, 02:42:21 PM
Quote from: Joseph Davis on August 28, 2009, 12:15:48 PM
Timing.

Timing never changed. It's at ~.8*/lb retard and timing @ 0vac column is 26*, retarded enough to spool the turbo quickly. The car ran fine at 11psi @ 42psi fuel pressure, but once the boost was turned up, it leaned out and the changes in the fuel map didn't affect afrs. So the it was turned up to 50psi and it seemed fine.

I think we're running out of injector. The problem with it being fine before at 50psi before was because there was a lot of wheel spin(2nd gear pulls). No traction=no real load which throws off the afr. Later that day we went tuning again with some 3rd gear pulls and it was leaning out to 12.8 or so right in the middle of the power band. NO matter how much fuel I added, the afr's stayed the same. So I turned up the fuel pressure to 60psi then we did half a pull and the shift linkage came undone. So we ghetto rigged it on the side of the road and went back to the house.

I never had a chance to tune at the 60psi fuel pressure level, which is why it bogs right now in the low rpms, because I'm sure it's rich as fuck. You can turn it down to 50psi and it'll be too lean to be doing rippers. That afr is more for track only apps.

And yeah, the logs read 13-14psi max(never once goes over regardless of boost controller setting on a 3bar) so I'm sure that small ass turbo is being maxed out.


So 9:1 compression, skank2 IM, ls tb, log mani, 450cc injectors, 2.5" dp & exhaust+small 42/48 t3@14psi =maxed out.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: Joseph Davis on August 29, 2009, 02:53:24 PM
Leaning in the midrange, but not up top, sounds like ignition misfire. 
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on August 30, 2009, 02:01:15 AM
Are you suggesting tighter gap or a colder plug? It's running 7's right now.

The car pulled good in that afr range, but I just don't feel safe running those afr's on a car that's going to get the shit raped out of it.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: Joseph Davis on August 30, 2009, 02:10:31 AM
Iridiums are slightly easier to fire when you're at the limit of your ignition system, but meh.

I normally gap plugs down to 0.024" without batting an eye, some like the gap that tight.  When you think you need to gap tighter than that you may just need to upgrade the ignition... I'd say 50% of the cars that misfire in that range are cured by going down to 0.020" gap, the rest get upgrades.
Title: Re: Boost = Bogging
Post by: d112crzy on August 30, 2009, 02:23:23 AM
Hmm. Will definitely try that gap next round then. I think they're at .032" right now.