:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: sewell94 on June 28, 2009, 05:06:51 AM
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We were playing with Phil Stubs(Scott@Evans Performance from hmt) car today. Its a Vitara piston, TT rod, Evans Performance turbo kit, 65lb injectors, stock sleeves, stock intake, stock cam, tuned by me on eCtune, It made 310 on 15lbs on pump. We decided to see how much we could make out of his ghetto cdm madness mobile.
So we threw some 116 in it, and threw a kit on it, We took boost as high as 31lbs and even tried a nos jet as big as .062 trying to break 500hp but it just wasn't happening today :( We made 40 some pulls trying to do it, prolly a combination of a stock intake, stock cam, stock ign car with some clutch/tire slipage. The final plug gap ended up being at .012.
We did break the current vitara record though :) We had a bunch of pulls in this range, but a best of 482.6hp 386Tq, that was at 28.9lbs of boost with a .042 nitrous jet and .024 fuel jet. My dyno reads low compared to a Dynojet, 14% lower to be exact. For example a 91 crx si with interior with 238hp went 12.4 @114 on DR's.
Gotta love a dirt cheap rhmt style build making power by just throwing some boost and chemicals w/o having all of the high dollar bling bling parts,(sorry for bad scan, i'm dyno printers low on ink, haha)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg62%2Fsewell94%2FIMG_0002.jpg&hash=e867e9c1b297c95aa9f4130a743d989e808c2af3)
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you better have vids
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Props!
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you better have vids
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That is amazing! The Vitara builds seem like the way to go.
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What size vitaras? When are you heading to the track?
Congrats, but idk how long you'll keep the record...
http://www.onecamonly.com/turbo/2735-speedfactory-09-vitara-d16-build.html (http://www.onecamonly.com/turbo/2735-speedfactory-09-vitara-d16-build.html)
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Suck up on D's
Fuck yo swap!!!!!
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I hope I can get near that when I finish my twincharge system on my vitara setup. ;D
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good job scott. btw I vote unban scott.
iirc, christ M banned him for being a sponsor over at the old shit hole.
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+1
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Damn nice numbers. What head and turbo?
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Scott's manifold and turbo bolts were loose at the end of the tune. Sewell's estimation was it needed cam, ignition and maybe more port work to go further. I think he just needs to take a chisel to the exhaust ports and triple his jet size. :P
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congrats thats awesome :D
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i will beat that.....
well, might get close
those are crazy numbers to be on the street with!
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good job scott. btw I vote unban scott.
iirc, christ M banned him for being a sponsor over at the old shit hole.
Not even close to the reason!
Good numbers btw.
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good job scott. btw I vote unban scott.
iirc, christ M banned him for being a sponsor over at the old shit hole.
Not even close to the reason!
Good numbers btw.
+2
Its clear why he was banned.
yo chris, u da nigga!
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oh, well, that's what he told me ???
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Congrats, That should be a mid ten second ride like that.
It is always nice to hold a record even if it is only going to be for a few days, or weeks.
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He said he is here to make money not friends his own words not mine. Great #'s and no he is not coming back.
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Oh and the last person who claimed he was trying to make money not friends was Chris Harris.
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Phil gives off horrible vibes and during the split of the sites claimed he will go where the money is. Conserding the guy sells cdm stuff for more than ebay and doesnt offer any services he makes maybe a 100 bucks off being a sponsor from the site.
We all got shit on and he figured to play in the shit barn so he can keep a couple extra bucks. no thank you he doesnt belong here and never will
Anytime people would ask guestions about swaps he would spread horrible wrong info and when I would call him out if he ever did anything besides d series stuff he would just play the honda-tech game. Oh thats what I have read before.
If you dont know what the FUCK your talking about stop posting shit about it.
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Oh and Im not taking anything away from you guys great#'s and glad to see people throwing the bottle on those Pistons.
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How much of that horse was caused by the shot.....
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He said he is here to make money not friends his own words not mine. Great #'s and no he is not coming back.
Oh and the last person who claimed he was trying to make money not friends was Chris Harris.
Phil gives off horrible vibes and during the split of the sites claimed he will go where the money is. Conserding the guy sells cdm stuff for more than ebay and doesnt offer any services he makes maybe a 100 bucks off being a sponsor from the site.
We all got shit on and he figured to play in the shit barn so he can keep a couple extra bucks. no thank you he doesnt belong here and never will
Anytime people would ask guestions about swaps he would spread horrible wrong info and when I would call him out if he ever did anything besides d series stuff he would just play the honda-tech game. Oh thats what I have read before.
If you dont know what the FUCK your talking about stop posting shit about it.
nuff said
Chris, Can I still call you at odd hours of the day to bullshit?
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In other words rhmt does not need anymore snakes!
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Outstanding work here.
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thats a ton of power, good shit!
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Scott's manifold and turbo bolts were loose at the end of the tune. Sewell's estimation was it needed cam, ignition and maybe more port work to go further. I think he just needs to take a chisel to the exhaust ports and triple his jet size. :P
Scott realized it was loose when we were unstrapping the car, he goes look at this, and he wiggled the downpipe about 3 inches and i seen the turbo shimmy back and forth. I'm not sure that it would have mattered, the thing was just choked up, I did some bowl work and a gasket match on the head, it was fowing real nice at lower boost levels(15LBS), but the power per lbs of boost really started to drop from there. We did up the jet size, we threw a .062(roughly 150 shot) in there, you can only put so much shit in an overflowing toilet.
How much of that horse was caused by the shot.....
I don't remember the exact numbers but it was maxed out on boost in the 375 range,
Oh and Im not taking anything away from you guys great#'s and glad to see people throwing the bottle on those Pistons.
These damn things are tough as hell, It amazed me, My machinest buddy that was hanging out about shits his pants when i told him they were a cast piston with all of that boost and spray. Running 2 power adders with a polluted combustion camber is just asking for trouble, but they took it like a champ.
Congrats, That should be a mid ten second ride like that.
It is always nice to hold a record even if it is only going to be for a few days, or weeks.
I'm not to worried about the record, i really don't expect it to last long, I have another customer that i'm finishing his build that will probably break it in the next week or so,. The fact that we did it with a basic build is really amazing, i'm guessing this is also the highest for a stock sohc vtec cam, i think that it if it is, it will stand for awhile. Using the stock cam for this kinda power is stupid, and very counterproductive.
Scotts got a ton of vids, when the button gets hit the run is basically over, hitting the kit at 5k, reving to 7200. I doubt they'll be very exciting. I'm just glad to see the car made the 3hr drive home after it was all said and done.
I love boost and spray, I'm curious to see what my car does when i hit the direct port kit on 50lbs :yes: ;D
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nice no under hood shots?
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From what I have seen in real life is a typical 50 shot on boost doesnt react like a 50 shot on a non boosted motor
For example:
Old hickman's b16a back in like 1998 was running 10.90's. Barely qualified in the top 16
Ripped off a 50 shot single wet fogger at the track off another car no tuning,no wideband this was before the times when that stuff was open to ever Joe
car laid down 10.30's-10.40's the rest of the weekend and never failed made it to the nhra finals on that bottle that weekend.
Needless to say nitrous on boost makes huge #'s.
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awesome job Sewell! But its going to be very hard for Eric to go over 500whp. I think his motor could do it pretty dam easily considering what you just did but I don't no if he will want to go that high.
I think if we had a few people around start talking some shit to him hopefully he would allow it.
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Your the man Tom, I will being seeing you soon about my car.
PROPS FOR SCOTT
Scott has always helped me out, If he lived closer to me I would chill with his ass all the time.
hes good people.
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From what I have seen in real life is a typical 50 shot on boost doesnt react like a 50 shot on a non boosted motor
For example:
Old hickman's b16a back in like 1998 was running 10.90's. Barely qualified in the top 16
Ripped off a 50 shot single wet fogger at the track off another car no tuning,no wideband this was before the times when that stuff was open to ever Joe
car laid down 10.30's-10.40's the rest of the weekend and never failed made it to the nhra finals on that bottle that weekend.
Needless to say nitrous on boost makes huge #'s.
Is it the cooling effect? Or something else? Always wondered why a 50 shot on a boosted motor is more like a 75 pill
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I've always heard it's the extra cooling...
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Congrats man! Good work! I might call you next week when I get some free time.
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From what I have seen in real life is a typical 50 shot on boost doesnt react like a 50 shot on a non boosted motor
For example:
Old hickman's b16a back in like 1998 was running 10.90's. Barely qualified in the top 16
Ripped off a 50 shot single wet fogger at the track off another car no tuning,no wideband this was before the times when that stuff was open to ever Joe
car laid down 10.30's-10.40's the rest of the weekend and never failed made it to the nhra finals on that bottle that weekend.
Needless to say nitrous on boost makes huge #'s.
Is it the cooling effect? Or something else? Always wondered why a 50 shot on a boosted motor is more like a 75 pill
Normally with spray and boost i've seen a 150-225% gain on what the shot was (thats assuming that everything isn't completely choked), gsr with a 35r on a 75shot picked up 140hp. The cooling effect has alot to do with it, you have the power from the shot itself, then the cooling effect, which causes the charge to become ALOT more dense.
The rule of thumb is that every 10 degrees you can drop IAT's you gain 1% of power, so you take a turbo'd 300hp engine, add 50 from the nitrous, and drop the intake temps from 100 degrees to -100 degrees so you got 300hp + 60hp(200 degrees of iat drop, 200 x .10= 20% x 300= 60hp) + 50Hp from the nitrous = 410hp , 110hp gain from a 50 shot. That isn't exact numbers, but a reasonable estimate to explain whats going on.
I've noticed that the smaller the shot the higher % gain, the law of diminishing returns kicks in because you can only drop the intake temps so much, which causes me to believe that increase in power from the IAT drop is added to the orginal power level, and then power from the nitrous is added last, final power= (original power) + (% gain from IAT drop x OP) + (Nitrous)
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The cooling effect is the least factor, and hardly worth mentioning. What is happening is all that extra exhaust mass drives the turbine and increases the unit's pumping efficiency. The reason why a small shot is more effective is the big shots choke in the exhaust port or turbine.
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congrats to you. very motivating to get mine on the dyno to see if she has what she used to show off.
i wanna see some pics
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As JD touched on the extra exhaust mass is a big part, but you need to be careful with this. Especially when you are pushing a turbo near the limit. I have had boost go from 42-43psi to 55psi+ with a small shot, and drive pressure go from ~50psi to 80psi+. I have also seen (though have not done it with any of my own turbos) with too small a wastegate turbo shafts snap, when the button is pushed, This is very common in HX-35 and HX40's as they have a small internal wastegate that only vents from one side of the split turbine.
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The cooling effect is the least factor, and hardly worth mentioning.
I disagree, The cooling factor is huge part of the increased hp. I know that you've read the NACA reports on Nitrous Oxide Supercharging, and it clearly states that the decrease in temps plays a large role increasing the power output from nitrous, thats why we inject it as a liquid instead of as a gas. Bottom of page 13 if you need a place to spot check me.
You can't argue that IAT's dont play a role in power output on turbo'd vehicles, O0
As JD touched on the extra exhaust mass is a big part, but you need to be careful with this. Especially when you are pushing a turbo near the limit. I have had boost go from 42-43psi to 55psi+ with a small shot, and drive pressure go from ~50psi to 80psi+. I have also seen (though have not done it with any of my own turbos) with too small a wastegate turbo shafts snap, when the button is pushed, This is very common in HX-35 and HX40's as they have a small internal wastegate that only vents from one side of the split turbine.
I agree with you guys on that, and thats clearly what occured here. Theres many angles to look at this.
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The cooling effect is the least factor, and hardly worth mentioning.
I disagree, The cooling factor is huge part of the increased hp. I know that you've read the NACA reports on Nitrous Oxide Supercharging, and it clearly states that the decrease in temps plays a large role increasing the power output from nitrous, thats why we inject it as a liquid instead of as a gas. Bottom of page 13 if you need a place to spot check me.
You can't argue that IAT's dont play a role in power output on turbo'd vehicles, O0
NACA papers are handy, sometimes wrong since a few of them are concatenations of theory and not actually based on testing, and you always always always have to take them within their context. You dropped the ball on the last bit, sir. Don't worry - so has everybody else.
I very much can argue that it doesn't play a significant role if you aren't injecting the nitrous in front of the compressor. Nobody does that. Think about it. You are always and forever compressor (and turbine) limited, Thomas, and if the compressor sees hot air the turbocharger's efficiency at compressing it is lessened, regardless of how much of a free ride is coming across the turbine.
:noel:
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Ill break that shit Tom you better watch out. 482 is pussy. I think we need to steal Chris's hx35 though. he has a much bigger exhaust housing than my hy. I guess we will see what happens. shit i still need some 1000cc injectors too.
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civicsurfer69, you think 482 is pussy but need 1000cc injectors?? Given the bsfc of a boosted D16 you're in for a surprise, unless you want Dynojet numbers.
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Ill break that shit Tom you better watch out. 482 is pussy. I think we need to steal Chris's hx35 though. he has a much bigger exhaust housing than my hy. I guess we will see what happens. shit i still need some 1000cc injectors too.
there are several different size exhaust housing on the hx-35, so be aware
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Ill break that shit Tom you better watch out. 482 is pussy. I think we need to steal Chris's hx35 though. he has a much bigger exhaust housing than my hy. I guess we will see what happens. shit i still need some 1000cc injectors too.
there are several different size exhaust housing on the hx-35, so be aware
Any of which are better then the 9cm on the HY.
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I do need to get 1000cc's or borow some for the record. yes the hy35 has 9cm^2 exhaust housing and none of the hx's exhaust housings are compatible due to the the exhaust wheels outer radius on the hy. I knew i should have kept my hx40.....shit. I also need...... some tires for my steelies because i have stock tires from factory with my steelies. Hey Tom what was your buddies exhaust on this setup?
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NACA papers are handy, sometimes wrong since a few of them are concatenations of theory and not actually based on testing, and you always always always have to take them within their context. You dropped the ball on the last bit, sir. Don't worry - so has everybody else.
I very much can argue that it doesn't play a significant role if you aren't injecting the nitrous in front of the compressor. Nobody does that. Think about it. You are always and forever compressor (and turbine) limited, Thomas, and if the compressor sees hot air the turbocharger's efficiency at compressing it is lessened, regardless of how much of a free ride is coming across the turbine.
:noel:
(for the record i had a 98 page essay typed as a reply to you, somehow i deleted the shit, and heres the condensed I'm piss'd off to the point version)
I understand the difference between concatenations of theory and real world testing. There was no ball dropped on my end on this one.
I read the test, there was no turbo or supercharger involved. The nitrous was injected in a constant pressue manifold(50hg) which would mean that applying the results of this test to our application would mean it was after the turbo would have compressed the air, meaning into the charge pipe or intake manifold. NOT the inlet of the turbo.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg62%2Fsewell94%2Fnacanos-1.png&hash=a8d09194650d82324d0475d261313e82ec43c277)
And i agree that once a exhaust port/sides flowed/choked/maxed out , theres no way to make anymore power, which was the case for scotts car.
We can argue all we want about this, talk about how nitrous changes the VE of an engine bla blah blah but there is more than any of us here can completely explain going on when using boost and nitrous. Any way that its argued, it works great. O0
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vids?
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fucking JFK doesnt like it when people fuck with his records.
at least you had the record for a few days. :(
but bad ass job none the less.
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The power people are making with these pistons blows my mind. I wish/hope my CP setup and even sit shoulder to shoulder with these setups
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He said he is here to make money not friends his own words not mine. Great #'s and no he is not coming back.
Oh and the last person who claimed he was trying to make money not friends was Chris Harris.
Phil gives off horrible vibes and during the split of the sites claimed he will go where the money is. Conserding the guy sells cdm stuff for more than ebay and doesnt offer any services he makes maybe a 100 bucks off being a sponsor from the site.
We all got shit on and he figured to play in the shit barn so he can keep a couple extra bucks. no thank you he doesnt belong here and never will
Anytime people would ask guestions about swaps he would spread horrible wrong info and when I would call him out if he ever did anything besides d series stuff he would just play the honda-tech game. Oh thats what I have read before.
If you dont know what the FUCK your talking about stop posting shit about it.
nuff said
Chris, Can I still call you at odd hours of the day to bullshit?
You getting sick of me nog?
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Flipnog never calls or texts anymore, he's gotten sick of me :(
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Who the fuck cares about records.
Just have fun.
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Fuck Scott @ Evans Performance... That is all
lul
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I like him and think the nonsense is blown out of proportion.
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Who the fuck cares about records.
Just have fun.
Joe you need a 75 shot :noel:
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Who the fuck cares about records.
Just have fun.
Joe you need a 75 shot :noel:
joe needs to test out the obx lsd i 're'built for him. i can't wait to see what a difference that will make, even with the quality driving he already does