:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: b20beast on March 14, 2010, 05:43:47 PM
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So heres the setup!
B16a
SRP 8:1 Cr Forged Pistons
Type R cams.
12psi T3 T4 60Trim .63
2.5" Exhaust
Ebay Cast Manifold
I went on the dyno, baseline was 211whp =( at 12psi ???!? :?:
i dont know what happened?!
I ended up adding 6Degrees of timing from 5500-Redline [from 1* per psi retard]
Ended up with 246Whp 178Wtq.
Power falls off hard after 7700rpm!
and peaks about 7500rpm.
This was tuned on 91OCT.
From my research i should be close to 300whp give or take a few.
Any ideas of what is happening here?
How is it possible to baseline at 211whp on 12psi with 1* per psi boost retard.
Also to be noted, i was racing the night after and after a couple pulls, i lost a wastegate bolt!
Im not 100% sure if i had any wastegate / manifold leaks on the dyno, but i didnt hear any leak and the bolt was in.
Thanks guys!
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who cares. The end result was 246 @12psi. Run it at the track or against some other cars to see how its really doing.
The type of dyno and correction factor has a big role on what your numbers could have been/are.
You're peaking early because you have a restrictive exhaust on a high revving motor.
Plus its a b16. you were set to fail from the start.
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i ran against a 2JZ [LAUREL] Big turbo 500+ horses and won!
;)
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No you didnt... Or he wasnt trying.
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No you didnt... Or he wasnt trying.
weather u win by a mile or an inch, winnings winning
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ditch the cat
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No you didnt... Or he wasnt trying.
weather u win by a mile or an inch, winnings winning
Either youre lying or he was
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i ran against a 2JZ [LAUREL] Big turbo 500+ horses and he won!
;)
fixed
No you didnt... Or he wasnt trying.
weather u win by a mile or an inch, winnings winning
true, but if they are not racing then it doesn't count.
we went from a dig.
mind you, he is automatic... and had some shitty excuse about his 'alarm'
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ditch the cat
no cat, straight 2.5" exhaust
plugs are couple months old, what do you guys think?
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Either youre lying or he was
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Either youre lying or he was
so why is it so hard to beleive?
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Because Im not a fucking moron....
You live in WA right?
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You live in WA right?
Do work :noel:
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From my research i should be close to 300whp give or take a few.
No it won't. If you'd kept stock CR, sure, but not an 8:1 CR B16. You're dealing with a lazy port, over cammed, no displacement, over square piece of shit - of COURSE it's sensitive to CR and is now slower than a 225 whp Z6 or Y8 on 12 psi because the 246 it does have only occurs the last 23 rpms before the power falls completely off.
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wtf was the point of 8:1 on a 1.6L. What kind of dog ass shit is that? MAYBE if it had some torque to back its complete lack of balls the 8:1 would be ok (SOHC vitara's).
kill yourself. Go back to HT.
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This thread fails... OP post porn or ban
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unhook the vac line from the wastegate, then get back to us.
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that cpr is a fail
From my research i should be close to 300whp give or take a few.
No it won't. If you'd kept stock CR, sure, but not an 8:1 CR B16. You're dealing with a lazy port, over cammed, no displacement, over square piece of shit - of COURSE it's sensitive to CR and is now slower than a 225 whp Z6 or Y8 on 12 psi because the 246 it does have only occurs the last 23 rpms before the power falls completely off.
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If you'd have done research, you'd have seen 10:1 can pull 300+ whp from cast pistons.
If you'd have done research, you'd know JD hates b16's.
If you'd have done research, you'd know Jeff Evans tested a full LS vs full b16 swap with the same kit and the LS spanked it.
If you'd have done research, you'd know you need to start with less than 1*/psi with an 8:1 motor. Much less.
Finally,
If you'd have done research, you'd know to use hemp ROPE when you hang yourself.
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If you'd have done research, you'd have seen 10:1 can pull 300+ whp from cast pistons.
If you'd have done research, you'd know JD hates b16's.
If you'd have done research, you'd know Jeff Evans tested a full LS vs full b16 swap with the same kit and the LS spanked it.
If you'd have done research, you'd know you need to start with less than 1*/psi with an 8:1 motor. Much less.
Finally,
If you'd have done research, you'd know to use hemp ROPE when you hang yourself.
hahah i got my good morning laugh!
this is RHMT, pistons i scored for 75bucks, so wtf right, as long as the car spanks some ass!
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You're dumb, and that block will split a sleeve before you max out a stock piston.
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From my research i should be close to 300whp give or take a few.
No it won't. If you'd kept stock CR, sure, but not an 8:1 CR B16. You're dealing with a lazy port, over cammed, no displacement, over square piece of shit - of COURSE it's sensitive to CR and is now slower than a 225 whp Z6 or Y8 on 12 psi because the 246 it does have only occurs the last 23 rpms before the power falls completely off.
so the power falls off early because of the CR?
you said the last 23rpms, u mean 2300 right?
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You're dumb, and that block will split a sleeve before you max out a stock piston.
the stock block was damaged already, so thats why i rebuilt it with forged pistons.
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Post the dyno sheet. Post more specs. Post pictures of the engine bay.
Basically what Joseph said is the truth. You dropped the compression 2 full points. You're running some pretty decent sized cams with a log manifold which can be problematic (although I don't think it's the issue in your case). I'm also guessing the turbo is in less than awesome condition, but that's just my guess.
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Post the dyno sheet. Post more specs. Post pictures of the engine bay.
Basically what Joseph said is the truth. You dropped the compression 2 full points. You're running some pretty decent sized cams with a log manifold which can be problematic (although I don't think it's the issue in your case). I'm also guessing the turbo is in less than awesome condition, but that's just my guess.
spot on
the turbo when i got it, shaft wouldnt of even spin, so i cleaned it out and changed bearings and seals.
idk but wont i have the advantage of running more boost on pump gas with this low CR?
like 20-24psi?
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Flight of the Conchords- Business Time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGOohBytKTU#normal)
When's Wednesday?
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idk but wont i have the advantage of running more boost on pump gas with this low CR?
like 20-24psi?
not when you could have made the same power on half the boost and be that much less of a pile of dog shit when not in boost.
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I'd vote on the turbo being the biggest issue.
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idk but wont i have the advantage of running more boost on pump gas with this low CR?
like 20-24psi?
not when you could have made the same power on half the boost and be that much less of a pile of dog shit when not in boost.
Can i get some proof that lower cr makes your car dog shit slow out of boost? I just can't imagine a honda feeling that slow out of boost. Have you driven a dpfi d15 lately nothing is slower then that pile of aids, and somehow i don't see a b16 being that slow.
I had a friend with a b16 9.7:1 spooled a 60/63 57 trim at 4500-4800 (vtec point) so i find it hard to beleave that 1 more point will destroyed it's driveability.
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idk but wont i have the advantage of running more boost on pump gas with this low CR?
like 20-24psi?
not when you could have made the same power on half the boost and be that much less of a pile of dog shit when not in boost.
Can i get some proof that lower cr makes your car dog shit slow out of boost? I just can't imagine a honda feeling that slow out of boost. Have you driven a dpfi d15 lately nothing is slower then that pile of aids, and somehow i don't see a b16 being that slow.
I had a friend with a b16 9.7:1 spooled a 60/63 57 trim at 4500-4800 (vtec point) so i find it hard to beleave that 1 more point will destroyed it's driveability.
yeah bullshit on the lower compression driveability
i hardly notice.
who cares about out of boost, thats the reason i put on a turbo, to drive in BOOST.
i get full spool at 5000rpm
the 246whp is pretty fast once you can put the power to the ground.
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idk but wont i have the advantage of running more boost on pump gas with this low CR?
More boost at less power.
You upped your knock limit by dropping the CR, but it's still a dinky ass 1.6 liter so you didn't exactly pick up a lot of headroom there, princess.
I foresee split sleeves in your future.
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Think of it as an over cammed motor.
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The compression doesn't make a huge difference out of boost. It makes a difference, but not enough to care for the most part. It would be different if when he gave it a boot full and there was no turbo. Then it would be shit. There is a turbo, so it's not an issue.
The turbo is your issue. Replace it, and pick up 20hp. I expect your current unit to dig one of the wheels into the housings within the first 2000 miles based on your description of it's original condition.
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idk but wont i have the advantage of running more boost on pump gas with this low CR?
More boost at less power.
You upped your knock limit by dropping the CR, but it's still a dinky ass 1.6 liter so you didn't exactly pick up a lot of headroom there, princess.
I foresee split sleeves in your future.
can you explain a little more on the cracked sleeves?....
im not understaning why it would crack if there is no knock
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The turbo is your issue. Replace it, and pick up 20hp.
You're dumb, Rass. If there was 20 hp worth of friction across that turbine shaft it'd have come apart already. The motor sounds like it's making the power it should on a Dynojet, Dynapack, or anything else that reads high.
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The turbo is your issue. Replace it, and pick up 20hp.
You're dumb, Rass. If there was 20 hp worth of friction across that turbine shaft it'd have come apart already. The motor sounds like it's making the power it should on a Dynojet, Dynapack, or anything else that reads high.
I don't agree at all. I'd put $20 on the turbo being the issue.
I'd still be interested in seeing a shot of the dyno chart, engine bay, and a full parts list. If it's the engine, it's not because it's a B16, with low compression, and ITR cams but it has low compression or something wasn't installed correctly.
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(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F1058%2Fdyno.jpg&hash=6f069fa99a0ae7ca72afaa1cdd9787e245f5ef9e) (http://img651.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dyno.jpg)
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Turbo issue. Look at that torque drop in the top end. Again, I'd put $20 on it.
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Tial 38mm Wastegate
Ebay Cast manifold
Tial Bov
880cc injectors
Walbro 225
spooling performance intercooler pipe.
2.25->2.5"
Precision 350hp intercooler
garrett t3 t4 60 trim .63
type r cams.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg264.imageshack.us%2Fimg264%2F9225%2Fmoto0190.jpg&hash=a95e1b6d96ed62a8789ebd2812737b412e72f07b)
By jdmking (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/jdmking), shot with Motorola Phone (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=Motorola+Phone&make=Motorola) at 2009-04-17
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Turbo issue. Look at that torque drop in the top end. Again, I'd put $20 on it.
The torque drop that follows engine rpm and not airmass/turbine shaft speed? That torque drop?
Looking at that raggedy-ass power output that's repeatable across several runs screams to me cam timing.
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(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg113.imageshack.us%2Fimg113%2F8660%2Ftiming.jpg&hash=69a53cd61e9e669d8d87984ef37e88bf6be180f3) (http://img113.imageshack.us/i/timing.jpg/)
Timing, im a noob tuner
anyone wanna help me smooth the rest of cols?
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Turbo issue. Look at that torque drop in the top end. Again, I'd put $20 on it.
The torque drop that follows engine rpm and not airmass/turbine shaft speed? That torque drop?
Looking at that raggedy-ass power output that's repeatable across several runs screams to me cam timing.
I could buy cam timing, but if someone tells me "yea, I got this turbo and it was frozen solid and beat to shit and a rebuilt it" I'm going with that as my issue. Torque drop like that indicates a turbo not being able to keep up. The turbo is beat to shit, I'd say there is a fair chance it's the issue.
If cam timing fixes it, I'll paypal you $20. I still think it's turbo related.
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fuel
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg387.imageshack.us%2Fimg387%2F5302%2Ffuel.jpg&hash=9fc0554152fb07eda6680c941c4528404328a104) (http://img387.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fuel.jpg)
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(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg14.imageshack.us%2Fimg14%2F2972%2Fdatalog.jpg&hash=2d2ad2dd87fbbbbea83dbe27ef5e717d899628d0) (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=datalog.jpg)
datalig/boost log
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Did your afrs richen up in the last 500rpm or stay consistent?
*edit* was posting before that last screenshot was posted.
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cam timing seems to be good last time i checked!
common guys, i posted alot of info here, im sure you can figure it out
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Turbo issue. Look at that torque drop in the top end. Again, I'd put $20 on it.
The torque drop that follows engine rpm and not airmass/turbine shaft speed? That torque drop?
Looking at that raggedy-ass power output that's repeatable across several runs screams to me cam timing.
I could buy cam timing, but if someone tells me "yea, I got this turbo and it was frozen solid and beat to shit and a rebuilt it" I'm going with that as my issue. Torque drop like that indicates a turbo not being able to keep up. The turbo is beat to shit, I'd say there is a fair chance it's the issue.
If the turbo couldn't kee up then the power delivery would go flat, not fall off as well.
cam timing seems to be good last time i checked!
How did you determine that? The same way you determined you should break 300 whp?
common guys, i posted alot of info here, im sure you can figure it out
That's exactly the problem. You haven't posted any information worth looking at, and you expect someone else to fix it for you in an online forum when you're the one sitting in front of the car.
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Just for the hell of it do a comp/ leak down test.
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Turbo issue. Look at that torque drop in the top end. Again, I'd put $20 on it.
The torque drop that follows engine rpm and not airmass/turbine shaft speed? That torque drop?
Looking at that raggedy-ass power output that's repeatable across several runs screams to me cam timing.
I could buy cam timing, but if someone tells me "yea, I got this turbo and it was frozen solid and beat to shit and a rebuilt it" I'm going with that as my issue. Torque drop like that indicates a turbo not being able to keep up. The turbo is beat to shit, I'd say there is a fair chance it's the issue.
If the turbo couldn't kee up then the power delivery would go flat, not fall off as well.
cam timing seems to be good last time i checked!
How did you determine that? The same way you determined you should break 300 whp?
common guys, i posted alot of info here, im sure you can figure it out
That's exactly the problem. You haven't posted any information worth looking at, and you expect someone else to fix it for you in an online forum when you're the one sitting in front of the car.
check the cam timing by lineing up the crank pully to TDC and Cam gears
at least give me some clues
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Did u have a solid 14.7 afr in boost ?
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Did u have a solid 14.7 afr in boost ?
11's arf
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Lol I was joking about the 14.7 try plug reading that can tell u alotqbout how your motor is running/ wants to run
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unhook the vac line from the wastegate, then get back to us.
ive done this before and it does wonders. Just hope you have the extra fuel to compensate.
Try a thinner head gasket.. 8:1 is definitely a fail with a b16
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change that exhaust to a straight 2.5 also.
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change that exhaust to a straight 2.5 also.
exhaust is a straight 2.5" no cat, no resonator
just a muffler
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you said 2.25->2.5 didnt you.. meaning your downpipe is 2.25?
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you said 2.25->2.5 didnt you.. meaning your downpipe is 2.25?
intercooler pipe
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Run 25 degrees and real gas.
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I am trying to figure out why the power drops off on top!
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You've already been told.
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Run 25 degrees and real gas.
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Add timing sounds like win
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Joseph Davis Theory: Cam timing/B16 Failure
Chris M Theory: Not enough ignition timing/fake gas
Bigwig Theory: Fucked Turbo
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Joseph Davis Theory: Cam timing/B16 Failure
Chris M Theory: Not enough ignition timing and bad gas
Bigwig Theory: Fucked Turbo
Fixed
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Joseph Davis Theory: Cam timing/B16 Failure
Chris M Theory: Not enough ignition timing and bad gas
Bigwig Theory: Fucked Turbo
Fixed
so who is right
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Joseph Davis Theory: Cam timing/B16 Failure
Chris M Theory: Not enough ignition timing and bad gas
Bigwig Theory: Fucked Turbo
Fixed
just some noob question about the cam timing
TDC crank pulley, and cam gears pointing -> <-
right
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Me,
Your shits slow and no 200ish whp B failure is going to touch ANY 2JZ making 500.
Now, fuck your mom.
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cam timing seems to be good last time i checked!
common guys, i posted alot of info here, im sure you can figure it out
The answers have already been given to you sir.
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more boost
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Me,
Your shits slow and no 250ish whp B failure is going to touch ANY 2JZ making 500.
Now, fuck your mom.
it may make 300 on another dyno
idk ?
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http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/media/HMTDynoDayFeb05.wmv (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/media/HMTDynoDayFeb05.wmv)
Jeff frank speaks the truth
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http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/media/HMTDynoDayFeb05.wmv (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/media/HMTDynoDayFeb05.wmv)
Jeff frank speaks the truth
summarise pls, no sprks!
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b16 are worthless
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b16 are worthless
why is that?
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http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/media/HMTDynoDayFeb05.wmv (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/media/HMTDynoDayFeb05.wmv)
Jeff frank speaks the truth
summarise pls, no sprks!
ok fuck off and its almost wednesday
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stay wednesday
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Me,
Your shits slow and no 250ish whp B failure is going to touch ANY 2JZ making 500.
Now, fuck your mom.
it may make 300 on another dyno
idk ?
and still be just as slow as it is now
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oh yea, and fix your fucking timing map. Looks like a taco bell night.
do you have ignition corrections turned off in boost via hardware settings in the parameters window?
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Me,
Your shits slow and no 250ish whp B failure is going to touch ANY 2JZ making 500.
Now, fuck your mom.
it may make 300 on another dyno
idk ?
Maybe on the same dyno that bisi made 700+whp with his Z6?
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That dyno plot looks like a bag of smashed assholes, and the smoothing is at 4.
:?:
An 8:1 B16 with ITR cams...
That sounds like a brilliant combination...
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I'll probably piss a bunch of people off but some of the funniest cars i've driven have been boosted b16's. Jd thinks their fail, i think they make great street engines in in the correct chassis(ie crx).
I like the setup, simple and will make good power when you get your issues figured out. It should pull to close to 9k, not drop off a cliff like it is. The first thing i notice about this setup is that your dizzy is retarded like a mofo, so either your ign timing isnt set or your cam timings off. I've made 450hp on a 2.25 Dp so it'll work even though its not ideal, it'll still make power. Your Vtec needs to be set higher. The tune looks like it needs some work.
Whats up with the vaccum line that goes to the bottom port on the wg, its T off the manifold, where is the other end going to?
Put some sort of intake pipe on the turbo so its not sucking up hot ass air from the radator. I've seen a 25hp gain/loss from removing/putting one back on a boosted car similar to yours.
The power will be where you expect it when you figure out your issue. A b16 isnt going to make 300 on any real reading dyno, good thing your on a dynojunk.
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The first thing i notice about this setup is that your dizzy is retarded like a mofo, so either your ign timing isnt set or your cam timings off.
Given the shape of the powerband, cam timing.
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Sorry bout the engine bay pic, its a really old one, and the dizzy is not set like that at the moment.
it is 16*
I dont know how true, but *this* particular dyno is said to read like ASS.
so i may put her on another dyno, but first let me check the cam timing as mentioned.
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spot on
the turbo when i got it, shaft wouldnt of even spin, so i cleaned it out and changed bearings and seals.
I recall someone posting the gains the got from switching to a new turbo - same exact turbo, just with a FUNCTIONAL thrust bearing. They gained either 20 or 50whp simply because the thrust bearing had been eating itself. If your turbo is still creating excessive firction, that will lead to much more backpressure. The motor has to build more pressure to spin the wheel the same speed. Backpressure plus bigger cams = heartbreak.
One common thing people get is a boost leak. It's much more "damaging" to power than anyone with a Honda can imagine. The turbo has to start spinning a lot faster, which requires more backpressure, and it ends up running in a less efficient "island" to give you a certain amount of boost. In other words, boost leak = everything working much harder for less power.
Best way to test if it's the dyno is to take it to the track. Weigh your car with a full tank (I prefer the "you-load" style designer rock/mulch places' scales, more accurate than a gravel pit's scale) and do some math with a few online 1/4 mile calculators. If it's the dyno, numbers will be way off. Otherwise...there indeed is a bug in your setup.
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OK, you are looking at this all wrong. Never mind that a dyno tells you how much hp and tq you are making. You need to look at a dyno as a tuning tool. Just like a wideband is a tuning tool, or an egt setup is a tuning tool. If you look at it like that, then you will figure out your problems and then have a car that is a better running/driving motor/car. In this instance like JD said. Cam timing looks a little funky as the power just falls on its face.
So on that note, did you have the block milled a bunch, or the head milled? What is you actual compression? Are your cams degreed to make sure youe have correct cam timing? Are you running aftermarket cam gears or oem? Are the gears the same code as the cams? (idk if this matters in this instance assuming if they are stock)
Come on man if you want help you need to give us the info to help you.
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OK, you are looking at this all wrong. Never mind that a dyno tells you how much hp and tq you are making. You need to look at a dyno as a tuning tool. Just like a wideband is a tuning tool, or an egt setup is a tuning tool. If you look at it like that, then you will figure out your problems and then have a car that is a better running/driving motor/car. In this instance like JD said. Cam timing looks a little funky as the power just falls on its face.
So on that note, did you have the block milled a bunch, or the head milled? What is you actual compression? Are your cams degreed to make sure youe have correct cam timing? Are you running aftermarket cam gears or oem? Are the gears the same code as the cams? (idk if this matters in this instance assuming if they are stock)
Come on man if you want help you need to give us the info to help you.
i had the blocked decked and head skimmed, skunk2 cam gears...
thats about it.
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how much was the block decked and head milled? what thickness headgasket are you using? what are your gears set at?
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spot on
the turbo when i got it, shaft wouldnt of even spin, so i cleaned it out and changed bearings and seals.
I recall someone posting the gains the got from switching to a new turbo - same exact turbo, just with a FUNCTIONAL thrust bearing. They gained either 20 or 50whp simply because the thrust bearing had been eating itself. If your turbo is still creating excessive firction, that will lead to much more backpressure. The motor has to build more pressure to spin the wheel the same speed. Backpressure plus bigger cams = heartbreak.
One common thing people get is a boost leak. It's much more "damaging" to power than anyone with a Honda can imagine. The turbo has to start spinning a lot faster, which requires more backpressure, and it ends up running in a less efficient "island" to give you a certain amount of boost. In other words, boost leak = everything working much harder for less power.
Best way to test if it's the dyno is to take it to the track. Weigh your car with a full tank (I prefer the "you-load" style designer rock/mulch places' scales, more accurate than a gravel pit's scale) and do some math with a few online 1/4 mile calculators. If it's the dyno, numbers will be way off. Otherwise...there indeed is a bug in your setup.
I didn't feel like giving Joseph the satisfaction of me typing this out, but these are my thoughts. I've seen very similar stuff with leaks and faulty WG's as well. When he said his turbo was fucked, it made me think it was the issue.
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i had the blocked decked and head skimmed, skunk2 cam gears...
thats about it.
cdm FTW!
So because they are skank12 you think that they are accurate?
So have you checked to see if the gears have slipped at all? Or what are the settings? Did you guys mess with them at all when you were on the dyno? B4 you start fucking with them, did you check to see what you p2v clearance is? When was the last time you did a valeve adjustment, when was the last time you did a compression test?
This it the kind of info we need to know to diagnose your shit for you.
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what does the timing light say your base timing is with your distributor set the way it is?
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too much info/help. Please stop.
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his power output isabout right. my old b16a was 7.9:1 and it took 22 psi from a 35r to make 389whp. its fail. get fucked
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his power output isabout right. my old b16a was 7.9:1 and it took 22 psi from a 35r to make 389whp. its fail. get fucked
Was that at 66% throttle?
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too much info/help. Please stop.
Thats what I was thinking.
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i always knew b16s were gay, all the little asian boys want them
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
I forced his hand. In one stroke he both proved me wrong and still got his way. Checkmate, one might say.
This one may have some more life like a b16 running on 3 cylinders due to a split sleeve. There's actual tech here plus a mystery, besides it's not JD's subforum.
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Zing!
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Im going to RE Check the Cam timing and look for boost leaks!
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Zing!
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
Its my section I will close it when I feel like it :evil:
Seeing a fail boat b16 is full of win :noel:
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
Its my section I will close it when I feel like it :evil:
Seeing a fail boat b16 is full of win :noel:
why fail
i dont get it!
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
Its my section I will close it when I feel like it :evil:
Seeing a fail boat b16 is full of win :noel:
why fail
i dont get it!
Because b16 are worthless.
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
Its my section I will close it when I feel like it :evil:
Seeing a fail boat b16 is full of win :noel:
why fail
i dont get it!
Stupid people have an easier time with pictures than they do with words... here, let me demonstrate why fail.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F1058%2Fdyno.jpg&hash=6f069fa99a0ae7ca72afaa1cdd9787e245f5ef9e)
Any questions??
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
Its my section I will close it when I feel like it :evil:
Seeing a fail boat b16 is full of win :noel:
why fail
i dont get it!
Stupid people have an easier time with pictures than they do with words... here, let me demonstrate why fail.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg651.imageshack.us%2Fimg651%2F1058%2Fdyno.jpg&hash=6f069fa99a0ae7ca72afaa1cdd9787e245f5ef9e)
Any questions??
it obviously looks like that because something is wrong.
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
Its my section I will close it when I feel like it :evil:
Seeing a fail boat b16 is full of win :noel:
why fail
i dont get it!
Stupid people have an easier time with pictures than they do with words... here, let me demonstrate why fail.
Any questions??
Why does the torque fall like that? :P
For some reason I think this thread is useful.
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How did the other B16 thread get locked and this one still stay open?
Its my section I will close it when I feel like it :evil:
Seeing a fail boat b16 is full of win :noel:
why fail
i dont get it!
Stupid people have an easier time with pictures than they do with words... here, let me demonstrate why fail.
Any questions??
Why does the torque fall like that? :P
For some reason I think this thread is useful.
bingo!
b16a usually peak later than where it falls off on my graph
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Exactly! Thus, failure.
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Exactly! Thus, failure.
:yes: :yes:
i will prove u wrong when i figure out my problem!
no worries!
b16a are full of win!
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Exactly! Thus, failure.
:yes: :yes:
i will prove u wrong when i figure out my problem!
no worries!
b16a are full of win!
Hahahah told you this thread is full of fail and win.
Do the following.
1) Leak down comp test.
2) Test all charge pipes with soapy water just in case.
3) Check valve lash.
4) Replace wastegate with another good working one.
5) Can always shave head to bump comp.
6) Change turbo.
Do one at a time in that order, do it in that order and you should find a problem if there is any.
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Exactly! Thus, failure.
:yes: :yes:
i will prove u wrong when i figure out my problem!
no worries!
b16a are full of win!
Hahahah told you this thread is full of fail and win.
Do the following.
1) Get a rope
2) ????
3) Profit!
Do one at a time in that order, do it in that order and you should find a problem if there is any.
Fixed.
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Its fucking obvious theres a flow restriction... Could be hes mommys worn out poop door, or the kit.
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Also to be noted, i was racing the night after and after a couple pulls, i lost a wastegate bolt!
Im not 100% sure if i had any wastegate / manifold leaks on the dyno, but i didnt hear any leak and the bolt was in.
Look at the end of his 1st post I predict it's actually very simple. A hacked setup with no dump tube, no fire ring, and/or blown wg or turbo flange gasket. It sloooowly moves to 140 wtq, then shoots up to 190 wtq over 200rpm. That tells me it's probably exhaust leaking until there's enough flow to overcome it and build exhaust pressure.
Another problem that creates is a huge loss in power at whatever RPM that leak exists. It probably has slipped or mislabeled cam gears to compound the main problem.
If it was very restrictive after the WG, or open dump + tiny exhaust, torque will also shoot up right as the WG opens. Ask anyone who's played with a VGT turbo about that. 10psi & 28cm housing > 20psi & 2cm houing.
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Because b16 are worthless.
I forgot to reply to this. I found some graphs recently that show some of the best stock motor comparisons I've seen.
One interesting example is a stock B18A1 run by an OBD0 ecu and a JDM "SiR2" b16a run by a stock small/smd P30. The tired B18A makes more power all the way to 6400rpm. You don't win races with a 1200rpm powerband, it's actually 80% the transmissiong's doing when it comes to a b16.
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FAB16LAB18A1
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Also to be noted, i was racing the night after and after a couple pulls, i lost a wastegate bolt!
Im not 100% sure if i had any wastegate / manifold leaks on the dyno, but i didnt hear any leak and the bolt was in.
Look at the end of his 1st post I predict it's actually very simple. A hacked setup with no dump tube, no fire ring, and/or blown wg or turbo flange gasket. It sloooowly moves to 140 wtq, then shoots up to 190 wtq over 200rpm. That tells me it's probably exhaust leaking until there's enough flow to overcome it and build exhaust pressure.
Another problem that creates is a huge loss in power at whatever RPM that leak exists. It probably has slipped or mislabeled cam gears to compound the main problem.
If it was very restrictive after the WG, or open dump + tiny exhaust, torque will also shoot up right as the WG opens. Ask anyone who's played with a VGT turbo about that. 10psi & 28cm housing > 20psi & 2cm houing.
Uh, when the turbine or whatever flow restriction (ill entertain a cam getting fucked up in relatin to timing) takes its toll, tq doesnt magically jump up, it will fall on its face. understand what your saying about the "smaller" housing making tq faster, but you missed the point, at least you sound like you did.
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Because b16 are worthless.
I forgot to reply to this. I found some graphs recently that show some of the best stock motor comparisons I've seen.
One interesting example is a stock B18A1 run by an OBD0 ecu and a JDM "SiR2" b16a run by a stock small/smd P30. The tired B18A makes more power all the way to 6400rpm. You don't win races with a 1200rpm powerband, it's actually 80% the transmissiong's doing when it comes to a b16.
I tried to explain this to my friend who owns a new Si. He got pissed that I said his K20fail was worthless, so I told him to race me, and we'd both be shifting at 6k. K20's are gutless out of vtec, and new civics weigh as much as older accords, so the failboat kept up with him. Point proven.
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Because b16 are worthless.
I forgot to reply to this. I found some graphs recently that show some of the best stock motor comparisons I've seen.
One interesting example is a stock B18A1 run by an OBD0 ecu and a JDM "SiR2" b16a run by a stock small/smd P30. The tired B18A makes more power all the way to 6400rpm. You don't win races with a 1200rpm powerband, it's actually 80% the transmissiong's doing when it comes to a b16.
I tried to explain this to my friend who owns a new Si. He got pissed that I said his K20fail was worthless, so I told him to race me, and we'd both be shifting at 6k. K20's are gutless out of vtec, and new civics weigh as much as older accords, so the failboat kept up with him. Point proven.
Thats the worst comparison ever, my friend tried to do the same thing you did. except he was in a del sol (mini-me) i was in my s2000. shifting at 6k it was somewhat even, so he thought he could beat me sense his and your logic fails to understand that the comparison only works when your talking to similer cars. not a accord vs new civic si, or in my case a del sol vs a s2000.
Btw, when i raced him for real i had like 10+ lengths on his car.
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new Si's weigh about the same as an accord. I was trying to point out that high-revving motors with decent peak power aren't that great if you have to wait until some cars are in the next gear to make power. It was the peak power vs power under the curve arguement.
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update
CAM timing is DEAD on.
verified with Cam Holders and Cams!
sorry JD
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What the fuck are Cam Holders and Cams? Because if they are what I am thinking, you haven't verified shit.
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What the fuck are Cam Holders and Cams? Because if they are what I am thinking, you haven't verified shit.
there is a hole, which you can put a 5mm drill bit thru the cam holders and cams to verify they are 'UP'
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What the fuck are Cam Holders and Cams? Because if they are what I am thinking, you haven't verified shit.
there is a hole, which you can put a 5mm drill bit thru the cam holders and cams to verify they are 'UP'
Quit calling the CAM CAPS cam holders.
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What the fuck are Cam Holders and Cams? Because if they are what I am thinking, you haven't verified shit.
there is a hole, which you can put a 5mm drill bit thru the cam holders and cams to verify they are 'UP'
cam caps go over cams, and cam holders over caps
Quit calling the CAM CAPS cam holders.
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Thought so. Keep thinking about it, and good luck.
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Thought so. Keep thinking about it, and good luck.
next check for boost leaks...
I have a TiAL BOV, how do i check if that leaks!?
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Thought so. Keep thinking about it, and good luck.
next check for boost leaks...
I have a TiAL BOV, how do i check if that leaks!?
Pressurize the system.
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What makes me sad is the 4age is like a lame gimped out version of the b16. IIRC similar stroke, similar bore and without all the vtaks.
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What makes me sad is the 4age is like a lame gimped out version of the b16. IIRC similar stroke, similar bore and without all the vtaks.
But there is that cool 20V head though. Unless I am thinking of the wrong motor
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No you're right.
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Thought so. Keep thinking about it, and good luck.
next check for boost leaks...
I have a TiAL BOV, how do i check if that leaks!?
Pressurize the system.
then check for leaks