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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joseph Davis on March 14, 2010, 09:05:54 PM

Title: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Joseph Davis on March 14, 2010, 09:05:54 PM
Proceed.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Adam Lofton on March 14, 2010, 09:08:32 PM
I already know what you are doing here JD. This poll sucks.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Minor Threat on March 14, 2010, 09:16:28 PM
Maybe I'm missing some joke as I haven't been on the forum in a minute, but I voted yes.

The real question is "Is it worth turning a Honda crank?"
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: RotaryGeek on March 14, 2010, 09:40:25 PM
And the answer is..... no. But i have done it.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: arsenio on March 14, 2010, 09:49:20 PM
I already sucked JDs pole.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Jorsher on March 14, 2010, 09:52:01 PM
I don't remember how it came up, but a shop told me no.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: RotaryGeek on March 14, 2010, 09:56:42 PM
The shop down the road from me turned my DOHC ZC crank just fine....
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Joseph Davis on March 14, 2010, 10:02:18 PM
The shop down the road from me turned my DOHC ZC crank just fine....


And sold you undersized bearings, too.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Phate on March 14, 2010, 10:10:29 PM
Don't they come from the factory with some kind of coating or micropolishing on them that comes off if you get it turned?
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: bob_barker on March 14, 2010, 10:16:42 PM
Of course you can turn a honda crank. If it works after that who knows. shoulda bought a evo  Jew
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Minor Threat on March 14, 2010, 10:23:19 PM
Don't they come from the factory with some kind of coating or micropolishing on them that comes off if you get it turned?

You think you're running on that coating?

You think that's air you're breathing?
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Jorsher on March 14, 2010, 10:27:35 PM
Don't they come from the factory with some kind of coating or micropolishing on them that comes off if you get it turned?

You think you're running on that coating?

You think that's air you're breathing?

I lol'ed
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: crttaz on March 14, 2010, 10:32:41 PM
Before or after welding and offset grinding????

Don't forget your fluoride gas treatmeant!
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Phate on March 14, 2010, 10:37:40 PM
Don't they come from the factory with some kind of coating or micropolishing on them that comes off if you get it turned?

You think you're running on that coating?

You think that's air you're breathing?

My failboat might actually be running on that coating.  F22's knock awesome after they lose oil pressure.  Survived 15k of daily flogging so far though
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: ifly87 on March 14, 2010, 11:53:21 PM
I've ran "ground" cranks before on honda's, never had any problems. If you get all honda-tech about it they say they are nitrided or some shit and turning them takes that off. Pretty much you're only option when an H23 chows up a bearing.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Joseph Davis on March 14, 2010, 11:55:14 PM
My failboat might actually be running on that coating.  F22's knock awesome after they lose oil pressure. 

If it knocked, the surface hardening is gone.


I've ran "ground" cranks before on honda's, never had any problems. If you get all honda-tech about it they say they are nitrided or some shit and turning them takes that off. Pretty much you're only option when an H23 chows up a bearing.

I'm calling BS.  H23 cranks break before a bearing can possibly damage a journal.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: 88dx on March 15, 2010, 01:56:44 AM
Of course you can turn a honda crank. If it works after that who knows. shoulda bought a evo  Jew
FUCK YOU BOB
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Phate on March 15, 2010, 02:09:19 AM
I've ran "ground" cranks before on honda's, never had any problems. If you get all honda-tech about it they say they are nitrided or some shit and turning them takes that off. Pretty much you're only option when an H23 chows up a bearing.

Nitride.  That's what I was thinking of.

If it knocked, the surface hardening is gone.

Well aware that its fucked.  Its been fucked since before I got the car. Now that I've found somewhere that sells motors at non-retarded prices (I'm not paying $400 for a 90k mile F22 longblock), I'm gonna pick up a replacement for this to keep it alive once this one lets go.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: d112crzy on March 15, 2010, 02:23:01 AM
Dude I've never payed a single dime for an F22. People always give them away. I currently have 3 F blocks, 1 complete with no head and the rest are bare. I also have a few H blocks and heads.

Anyways, it is possible to turn a crank. But the real answer is that you should NOT turn a crank. Check to make sure the cranks journals are not out of round and if they fall within spec you'll be able to rev it out to whatever rpm your next weak link will break at.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Phate on March 15, 2010, 02:39:16 AM
I've never come across a free one.  Almost got an F23 bottom end for $50, but never found an F for free.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: 92CXyD on March 15, 2010, 08:04:15 AM
Dude I've never payed a single dime for an F22. People always give them away. I currently have 3 F blocks, 1 complete with no head and the rest are bare. I also have a few H blocks and heads.

Anyways, it is possible to turn a crank. But the real answer is that you should NOT turn a crank. Check to make sure the cranks journals are not out of round and if they fall within spec you'll be able to rev it out to whatever rpm your next weak link will break at.

I have the same issue except I get D15 and D16z6 for free all the time. I also have two H23 and a trans. just chilling in my garage. ;D
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Robb on March 15, 2010, 08:46:34 AM
Rods/bearings ride on a wedge of oil.  If its touching the supposed soft crank journal after grinding, you have bigger things to worry about.

Going completely off of porsche bs here, when you have a crank that costs more than most people's cars do, you dont toss it in the trash. I say grinding em is ok.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Teg2boo on March 15, 2010, 09:44:24 AM
Didn't know that one! Good to know just before my build lol


I just need to find a fucking base for less than 200$ to start my build...
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Adam Lofton on March 15, 2010, 11:47:01 AM
I already sucked JDs pole.

If you are going to troll members on this site, you are going to need to do more than edit their posts with your fantasies. Be original. Why don't you do a MSpaint/photochop or a even a god damned advice dog pic and make an attempt at being a funny little faggot?
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Sinister on March 15, 2010, 10:00:19 PM
Don't they come from the factory with some kind of coating or micropolishing on them that comes off if you get it turned?

You think you're running on that coating?

You think that's air you're breathing?

I lol'ed

x2
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Passenger on March 16, 2010, 01:38:28 AM
Turning a Honda crank? Why? I can see offset grinding/welding. You can get enough hardness from the different hardfacing weld techniques to be comparable to nitriding. Regardless, you can grind (still see don't see any reason to actually turn) a nitrided crank just fine, but you should re nitride it afterwards, we did this often when I worked for MB.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: ifly87 on March 16, 2010, 03:27:01 AM
I'm calling BS.  H23 cranks break before a bearing can possibly damage a journal.

Noticed frosted flakes durring an oil change, and less than 50 miles later the oil light came on. Instantly shut it off, took it home to find the crank chewed up pretty nice where the bearing was almolst completely squished out of one of the rods. Some other journals were not looking to hot either. Picked up a ground crank with oversized bearing at the auto parts store, threw it together and continued its rapage for few thousand more miles until it was sold.

I was unaware that theese cranks are prone to breaking, I did have the belt off the "balance shaft" for the previous coupple thousand miles maybe that had somthing to do with it.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: snm95ls on March 16, 2010, 03:33:22 AM
ASSuming the crank journals and bearings never touch, as it should be in most situations, I would say yes.

According to conventional 'wisdom,' no.

Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Joseph Davis on March 16, 2010, 05:33:49 AM
Turning a Honda crank? Why?

Ever have trouble finding one that didn't need it?



Regardless, you can turn a nitrided crank just fine, but you should re nitride it afterwards, we did this often when I worked for MB.

Once again you're incorrect.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Doug on March 16, 2010, 05:52:44 AM


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Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: d-rail on March 16, 2010, 06:41:15 AM
The answer is no because honda journals are irregular and inconsistant so if you turn all the journals down to equal you have a nasty mess on your hands if you freshen up all journals including the smallest of the group which generally has the most wear since it has the least amount of area for the bearing to travel on
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: snm95ls on March 16, 2010, 09:33:07 AM
The answer is no because honda journals are irregular and inconsistant so if you turn all the journals down to equal you have a nasty mess on your hands if you freshen up all journals including the smallest of the group which generally has the most wear since it has the least amount of area for the bearing to travel on

Nigga what?

The only reason why Honda bearings are setup the way they are is to keep clearances consistent when machining tolerances are not.

Running a set of aftermarket bearings like ACLs is equivalent to running the same middle of the road bearing shell size on all journals.

Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Passenger on March 16, 2010, 12:00:39 PM
Turning a Honda crank? Why?

Ever have trouble finding one that didn't need it?

Regardless, you can turn a nitrided crank just fine, but you should re nitride it afterwards, we did this often when I worked for MB.

Once again you're incorrect.

 ::)
You don't turn a crank unless you are removing a significant amount of material, like more than .008", especially anything hardened. You won't be able to hold any sort of tolerance, not to mention you will just have to redo your setup on a crank grinder anyways so you might as well just grind it.

And no I am not incorrect Joseph, you need to keep in mind I actually do this kind of stuff, you only read about it. Parts can be, and have been for years, re nitrided, from automotive cams and cranks, to industrial cylinders, shafts and pistons.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: buk9tp on March 16, 2010, 12:22:59 PM
No you should stop being poor and go buy a new car with a warranty.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Joseph Davis on March 16, 2010, 02:25:00 PM
Turning a Honda crank? Why?

Ever have trouble finding one that didn't need it?

Regardless, you can turn a nitrided crank just fine, but you should re nitride it afterwards, we did this often when I worked for MB.

Once again you're incorrect.

 ::)
You don't turn a crank unless you are removing a significant amount of material, like more than .008", especially anything hardened. You won't be able to hold any sort of tolerance, not to mention you will just have to redo your setup on a crank grinder anyways so you might as well just grind it.

And no I am not incorrect Joseph, you need to keep in mind I actually do this kind of stuff, you only read about it. Parts can be, and have been for years, re nitrided, from automotive cams and cranks, to industrial cylinders, shafts and pistons.

Seeing as how bearings are sold in undersized increments of 0.010" what's your point?

Mine was you don't have to re-harden the crankshaft afterwards.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: AMkrew on March 17, 2010, 02:11:31 AM
Yes they can.

Plenty of manufacturers make crankshafts that are not nitrided.  They're turned all the time.  Simply because the material is soft(er) doesn't mean it will not work.  Take a look at bearing material.  The material on the top layer is much, MUCH softer than the material hiding underneath the nitrided layer.  The key is to get the right finish on the crankshaft.

HOWEVER...  They shouldn't unless the plugs are removed from the cross drilled passageways.  There, abrasive particles will hide until you go to the track the next city over, with a new setup, and are hoping to hit 11's.  Then, they'll come out to play, and you'll be mad and break up with your girlfriend...

Holy crap.  JD made me ponder for a second...  With the softer material underneath, and the significant timing advance in most of these motors, will the force of the rod hammering on the crank wear it *unusually* faster if it WERE reground?  I'm thinking of the rod journals, here...  Mains would certainly be fine.

No, I've reconsidered my opinion.  It's fine with the precautions above.

The human torch was denied a bank loan.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: crttaz on March 17, 2010, 02:46:32 AM
before the journals would wear, the crank will twist and flex, like a big spring.
Title: Re: Honda knowledge poll #1
Post by: Phate on March 17, 2010, 02:53:04 AM
before the journals would wear, the crank will twist and flex, like a big spring.

They had this problem in the old inline-8 cylinder motors.  Crank is simply too long.