:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: ifly87 on May 04, 2010, 02:50:20 AM

Title: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 04, 2010, 02:50:20 AM
After fucking around forever at sub 15psi, I finally got to the dyno and made some power.

Setup is a run of the mill vitara setup, the reason for the dyno time in the first place was to test out a water injection controller some electrical engineer friends made for a senior design project. My base street tune at 15psi made about 250whp, I eased up the boost and my power peaked at 373whp 337tq (kinda high tq for the power is it not?) here is the graph.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm258%2Fifly87%2FDelSol373PeakHPGraphwithboost-1.jpg&hash=0e47d0cdd14412e15bea5ee39c5fe38f930e9c91)

For some reason I couldnt make any more power, even with more boost. I pulled 2deg. out of my cam gear and the boost curve looked exactly the same except it started ramping and peaked about 200rpm faster. It seems like its making alot of tq for the hp, and I was really hoping to make 400whp but for now I guess its close enough.

Here's a picture of the setup
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm258%2Fifly87%2Fphoto.jpg&hash=0a747654f6ce542a32d5024a716d632c39486be4)

I'll try and get some ripper vids up soon.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: DmC on May 04, 2010, 04:34:24 AM
Did you try feeding timing back into it at higher boost? and also why not didn't you crank on the boost controller alittle more pressure is fading back down to an avergae 25psi. But in all seriousness that graph looks great I'd be more then happy with it. The torque is unbeleavable.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ryan89crx on May 05, 2010, 01:06:12 AM
Ching Chong turbo?
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 05, 2010, 01:39:35 AM
Ching Chong turbo?

Yeah, that was my leading theory when I went to hit post 22.5 hours ago only to find the site had gone tits up.

Basically, it appears that the compressor is being sucked dry.  Peak power is happening abnormally early AND boost is falling off up top, which means it's more than just a matter of cam adjustment.  Some people like those china turbos but what it's advertised as and what you get are completely different.

Put a real turbo on there, and next time start off by tuning wastegate and THEN do more than one cam adjustment.  Spin it both forward and back, see how the engine behaves and if you get gains try another degree in that direction until you find the sweet spot.  Then start cranking on the boost controller, power will come.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: theidealone on May 05, 2010, 02:01:37 AM
Shouldnt he be putting timing back in, to keep the torque level, instead of it dropping off so much???? (I dont know shit about tuning, so that is a genuine question).

And those eBay turbos are actually advertised @ 350 (and I dunno if thats supposed to be whp). So 370 is pretty good for a ching chong. I myself made 340, but was limited by my wastegate spring, so I will be going back for more this year.

Numbers look good though man. Is that a SPA manifold or whatever that cast top mount nonsense is?
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 05, 2010, 03:15:28 AM
Numbers look good though man. Is that a SPA manifold or whatever that cast top mount nonsense is?

Yeah its a SPA, seems to work well.

Ching Chong turbo?

Basically, it appears that the compressor is being sucked dry.  Peak power is happening abnormally early AND boost is falling off up top, which means it's more than just a matter of cam adjustment.

Put a real turbo on there, and next time start off by tuning wastegate and THEN do more than one cam adjustment.  Spin it both forward and back, see how the engine behaves and if you get gains try another degree in that direction until you find the sweet spot.  Then start cranking on the boost controller, power will come.

Thanks for the advice. I had a garrett on it with a slightly larger compressor, but had a tiny stg.1 turbine on it that couldnt support itself at anything past 15psi. I'll probably send it back to that french canadian fuck to get a bigger turnine wheel on it. I was more than happy to keep playing with it but the pull right after this I added in only a small amount of timing and lost 30whp. So I pulled it back out and lost another 30whp or so. So that was that for the day of tuning, I have to do a leak down on it and see whats up, i'll probably just put a real set of pistons in it right away, i'm running a .0085 piston/wall clearance.

Ching Chong turbo?

You cant really complain for $140, I should have bought 2 for when this one shits the bed.

Honestly I was a little upset  at the power, I was really hoping to see a 400whp pull. I also really wish dyno time wasnt so expensive I'd be on it more often.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: LS1pwNzJ00 on May 05, 2010, 05:00:16 AM
thats the perfect amount of power for a honda, making another 30ish hp wont make you much faster.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: evo_lucian on May 05, 2010, 08:53:15 AM
Specs of the cdm turbo ?
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: speedjunky01 on May 05, 2010, 12:34:43 PM
What kind of headwork/cam do you have I hope my vi-tard build puts down that kind of power

is your snail the typical .50/.63 trash? Like mine? :(
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 05, 2010, 12:49:35 PM
What kind of headwork/cam do you have I hope my vi-tard build puts down that kind of power

is your snail the typical .50/.63 trash? Like mine? :(

Yeah ebay .50/.63, head is bone stock except for the cam, I sent it to delta for a 272 regrind.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: d112crzy on May 05, 2010, 12:49:40 PM
I bet that shit is fun as hell on the street. Awesome tq curve.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 05, 2010, 12:52:53 PM
I bet that shit is fun as hell on the street. Awesome tq curve.

Yeah it is a blast, it blows away 2nd and still catches 3rd most of the time, 3rd gear feels like a spaceship. I'll try and get some ripper vids up before I have to take off the W/I this weekend, the unit has to go back to the group that created it for a seed show.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: speedjunky01 on May 05, 2010, 12:55:22 PM
What kind of headwork/cam do you have I hope my vi-tard build puts down that kind of power

is your snail the typical .50/.63 trash? Like mine? :(

Yeah ebay .50/.63, head is bone stock except for the cam, I sent it to delta for a 272 regrind.
Yeeeeess I just got mine and I ported the head a bit and crower springs glad to see the cam will make some mean tq
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 05, 2010, 01:08:19 PM
I had the head and deck milled, and have an adj cam gear. I centered the distributor and in order to get the timing marks to line up at 16deg the cam gear was showing almolst 5degrees of advance. From there on the dyno I pulled about 2 degrees out of it, boost ramped faster but it seemed to loose a little on the top end, thats where I stopped.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ryan89crx on May 05, 2010, 01:29:20 PM
You cant really complain for $140, I should have bought 2 for when this one shits the bed.

Honestly I was a little upset  at the power, I was really hoping to see a 400whp pull. I also really wish dyno time wasnt so expensive I'd be on it more often.
That's actually pretty damn good power for a China snail. I've seen more than one lose steam before 400hp
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 05, 2010, 01:51:31 PM
Yeah but I've also seen a bunch making well over 400whp so thats whats kinda dissapointing, I think with some more dyno time I could probably pick up another 10 or 15 whp at that same boost.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: evo_lucian on May 05, 2010, 03:34:48 PM
Now i don't feel so skeptical about running a ebay t3/t4 on my car, with the numbers you putting down. Btw its always weird hearing you guys say cam GEAR as opposed to cam gears  ;D
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: crxvtec91 on May 05, 2010, 04:33:33 PM
Get rid of the sk2 mani and go with a Chris M unit. I remember a few people on ohmt picking up power from doing this. Sk2 mani is all wrong for a sohc.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: lilpooh21186 on May 05, 2010, 10:06:03 PM
nice power and very usable power band should be fun clos to 10 sec car
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 06, 2010, 12:07:55 AM
Yeah but I've also seen a bunch making well over 400whp so thats whats kinda dissapointing,

Then when you bought your china feces turbo you should have asked the seller to send the biggest of the ".57 trim" turbos he had for sale.  It's not like you get what you buy, with the major complaint being how they fall apart getting the wrong one is a trivial matter.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: theidealone on May 06, 2010, 02:25:34 AM
The only CDM turbos I have seen make over 400 are on B series, and maxed the fuck out at 25ish PSI.

And there is no 57 trim. They only have a 44. LOL. Garbage. I cant wait to have some funds, so I can buy a Precision.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 06, 2010, 03:10:01 AM
Yeah but I've also seen a bunch making well over 400whp so thats whats kinda dissapointing,

Then when you bought your china feces turbo you should have asked the seller to send the biggest of the ".57 trim" turbos he had for sale.  It's not like you get what you buy, with the major complaint being how they fall apart getting the wrong one is a trivial matter.

I bought from the same exact description and seller as another guy making low 400's, but yeah I see what you're saying, his had the little holes in the inlet and I cant seem to find that particluar ebay turbo. I have no problem spending money on a real turbo, I just bought this one while troubbleshooting, trying to figure out the fluttering/surging problem I was having in boost and when this turbo fixed it I just ran for it.


I am really  bad at picking out the correct turbo for the job, and when I think I have it figured out as to the turbo I want, I keep finding others that seem to fit better. I get frusterated and say fuck it I'll stick with the ebay turbo.

Anybody have any recomendations as to what to replace this turbo with?? I'm not looking for anything over 450whp and would like a decent spool but I'd rather not shell out for a BB turbo if possible.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: jagojon3 on May 06, 2010, 04:33:15 AM
Do you have a build thread that I missed?
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 06, 2010, 04:48:55 AM
My build thread for this engine was on the OHMT site. I never moved it but it was pretty old and I replaced nearly every component on the turbo setup.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: j.h.christ on May 06, 2010, 07:24:13 AM
Anybody have any recomendations as to what to replace this turbo with??

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cummins-Diesel-Turbocharger-Holset-HX35-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414f393686QQitemZ280502023814QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cummins-Diesel-Turbocharger-Holset-HX35-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem414f393686QQitemZ280502023814QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: speedjunky01 on May 06, 2010, 11:29:39 AM
Holslut owns
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: turbob16hatch on May 06, 2010, 12:11:17 PM
garrett 50 trim T3/T4's seem to work great on d series. i have a freind putting down 365whp (mustang dyno) at 22psi ona  .48/.60 50 trim stg3 i assume with a larger hot side (.63) it would pick up alot more power.

Plus for $600 there pretty decent on the price.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ryan89crx on May 06, 2010, 12:30:32 PM
I just bought this one while troubbleshooting, trying to figure out the fluttering/surging problem I was having in boost
Same reason I just picked one up. I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend $600 on a new Garrett only to find out that the turbo isn't the issue. Once I figure it out, a Garrett 50 trim will be the next turbo
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 06, 2010, 02:41:02 PM
The holset would be on there but I hae that cast topmount and I doubt it would fit under the hood.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: CRX304 on May 09, 2010, 10:47:57 PM
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi106.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm258%2Fifly87%2Fphoto.jpg&hash=0a747654f6ce542a32d5024a716d632c39486be4)
nice whitey bends!!!
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: HiProfile on May 10, 2010, 10:07:47 PM
The holset would be on there but I hae that cast topmount and I doubt it would fit under the hood.

If the j-series fags cut a hole for 200whp, you can do it for 400whp. Stop being a pussy, function > form. Well, excluding kinky porn.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 11, 2010, 03:42:52 AM
I really would but my ricewagon is to "pretty" for that. Dont get me wrong I would love to. I'm even too embarassed to post a pic of it but it does get alot of attention which is kinda fun cruising around since every faggot in their mustang or camaro want to race it. In my neck of the woods people think a stock v6 mustang is fast.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: 92CXyD on May 11, 2010, 08:00:11 AM
Yeah in my area I deal with v-6 Mustang and Camaro owners a lot.

They all kinds of butt hurt when I beat them in my '96 Previa. :evil: :noel: ;D
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 11, 2010, 08:42:01 AM
Camaro and Mustang owners around here are 500 whp streetcars or you aren't allowed in their club.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: DmC on May 18, 2010, 02:59:49 AM
Camaro and Mustang owners around here are 500 whp streetcars or you aren't allowed in their club.
And you know how built his previa is?
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 18, 2010, 09:59:48 AM
Yes, I rode in it.

:P
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: 92CXyD on May 18, 2010, 10:03:23 AM
Yes, I rode in it.

:P

Yeah while pulling my Civic on a doley through traffic.  ;D
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: bigdaddyvtec on May 18, 2010, 01:15:06 PM
Camaro and Mustang owners around here are 500 whp streetcars or you aren't allowed in their club.

Here too, and theyre all slow. Whats funny is you hear the gammut of FWD excuses out of them too ie I spun, My rear end shakes etc etc, so they INSIST on roll racing..

LOL.


BRILLIANT.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 18, 2010, 05:45:29 PM
You don't race from a dig unless your domestic makes 500-600 as it's just pathetic, and you ask for roll races when your domestic doesn't have suspension under it and makes 750+.  I wasn't saying domestic owners - like all car cliques - were either bright or heterosexual, I was just saying you had to make 500 whp to be cool, locally.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: HiProfile on May 19, 2010, 10:40:44 PM
Yes, I rode in it.

:P

That's not all you two lovebirds did in it.



My buddy just ran his stang with the th400 for the first time this year, pulled up the front wheels (slicks+spool on stock suspension). They're not all dyno queens.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: caged on May 22, 2010, 08:11:11 AM
How much water are you spraying? have you thought about putting one pre turbo, you may get a bit more out of that turbo.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: keelay on May 23, 2010, 12:32:52 AM
How much PISS are you spraying? have you thought about putting one pre turbo, you may get a bit more out of that turbo.

Fix'd
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: ifly87 on May 23, 2010, 05:58:29 PM
How much water are you spraying? have you thought about putting one pre turbo, you may get a bit more out of that turbo.

Really have no idea since the micro is taking the IAT and MAP and finding a value in a map, Kinda like the factory computer finds fuel and timing values. I'm not even exactly sure what size the injector is, we just kept trying them and tuning the map until we could get the IAT to come down and hold steady without spraying too much. Used the IAT to decide, when the temp stopped decreasing then obiously the meth was not all evaporating so we would back it off a tick.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 23, 2010, 06:25:58 PM
Bad control method.  Wet thermometers always read colder than ambient.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: onlyflash944 on May 25, 2010, 11:57:31 PM
Wet thermometers always read colder than ambient.

someone understands adiabatic work, i see.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: caged on May 26, 2010, 03:53:38 AM
How much water are you spraying? have you thought about putting one pre turbo, you may get a bit more out of that turbo.

Really have no idea since the micro is taking the IAT and MAP and finding a value in a map, Kinda like the factory computer finds fuel and timing values. I'm not even exactly sure what size the injector is, we just kept trying them and tuning the map until we could get the IAT to come down and hold steady without spraying too much. Used the IAT to decide, when the temp stopped decreasing then obiously the meth was not all evaporating so we would back it off a tick.

Where is the nozzle located? Are you spraying 50/50 or 100% meth? I would keep dumping it in if your runing 50/50, my temps would get to a point where it wasnt geting colder but would still take more timing and make more HP with alot more.
I think the way you have set it up is a bit over engineered, Iam not having a go but I just think it would be better if it was just map and rpm controlled for switch on and pressure/flow at differant rpms.
Title: Re: My z6 finally making some power! pics and dyno graph inside.
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 26, 2010, 04:01:06 AM
Whereas others do not.