:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: MAJORAHOLE on May 13, 2010, 10:58:18 AM

Title: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: MAJORAHOLE on May 13, 2010, 10:58:18 AM
just getting an idea of what setups you guys may have, thinking about getting another civic, maybe hatch. and i want to make it handle well, and not all stiff and bouncy like my current setup. but also want to be able to drive it in the winter
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: brine04 on May 13, 2010, 12:52:13 PM
Ground controls and koni yellows

\thread
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: MAJORAHOLE on May 13, 2010, 01:43:08 PM
i  refuse to believe thats the best there is
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: crttaz on May 13, 2010, 03:58:30 PM
Motons + GC, but Koni's are enough
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: chris on May 13, 2010, 04:09:31 PM
http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/RedShift%20Tech%20Page.htm (http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/RedShift%20Tech%20Page.htm)



JRZ according to super duper track whore are hands down the best but at a price tag in the 3000 dollar range for setups you better enjoy turns.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: highroller54 on May 13, 2010, 04:20:35 PM
Alot of people swear by pic for the price, I like mine but I dont autoX, none around me :(
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: crttaz on May 13, 2010, 04:52:40 PM
http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/RedShift%20Tech%20Page.htm (http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/RedShift%20Tech%20Page.htm)



JRZ according to super duper track whore are hands down the best but at a price tag in the 3000 dollar range for setups you better enjoy turns.

eight year old info, there have been improvements since.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: runsfromdacops on May 13, 2010, 04:58:05 PM
if you want high end stuff look at ohlins. on the low end there is buddyclub N+ are a good choice.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: MAJORAHOLE on May 13, 2010, 05:01:30 PM
im not looking for the best stuff, just decent quality for the price. 
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: chris on May 13, 2010, 05:03:38 PM
Then koni yellow/ground control its proven and if you think that set up is to pricey get some cdm coilovers and join a lowrider club.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: runsfromdacops on May 13, 2010, 05:04:56 PM
yep for the price i would do bc n+, if you look around you can find them for 800ish and that right around what youd spend for a gc/koni combo
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: highroller54 on May 13, 2010, 06:07:17 PM
bc n+

junk, they like to leak also.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: turbob16hatch on May 13, 2010, 08:25:45 PM
i  refuse to believe thats the best there is
im not looking for the best stuff, just decent quality for the price. 

Hrm, contradiction?

Buy the koni/gc's you idiot. Theres nothing that will touch them unless you jump up big in price.  You obviously wouldn't be able to tell the difference between $800 struts/coils and a set of $3000 coilovers, as you just made this thread.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: snm95ls on May 13, 2010, 08:44:23 PM
I like my Eibach Pro Street S coilovers, but I got them for a hell of a deal.

GC/Koni or GC/Bilstein with custom valving gets my vote.

OTS Bilsteins are pretty easy to convert to fully rebuildable units, and supposedly Bilstein is very helpful when if comes to help with revalving.

That is unless you have copious amounts of money to spend, but you better have the skill and experience to take advantage of it.

Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: dvst8r on May 13, 2010, 10:31:20 PM
Personally I like penske's, but again that is getting into the pricey range of things.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: highroller54 on May 13, 2010, 10:43:13 PM
Personally I like penske's, but again that is getting into the pricey range of things.

nice but more money then a couple civics, lol.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: onlyflash944 on May 13, 2010, 10:57:44 PM
just getting an idea of what setups you guys may have, thinking about getting another civic, maybe hatch. and i want to make it handle well, and not all stiff and bouncy like my current setup. but also want to be able to drive it in the winter

you aren't going to be competetive without much stiffer than stock springs.  handles well = shit ride on public roads

get a big ass rear sway bar if you want to spend as little as possible for the most improvement on turn in, that is if your class allows it
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: crttaz on May 14, 2010, 02:31:52 AM
H&R race springs and Koni yellows are the min., like my CRX has on it. I might have done well in STS2 at SCCA Nationals....with a better driver.

Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: snm95ls on May 14, 2010, 02:50:02 AM
H&R race springs and Koni yellows are the min., like my CRX has on it. I might have done well in STS2 at SCCA Nationals....with a better driver.



Nobody has mentioned the most important part yet.

Tires.

Good tires make a HUGE difference.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: crttaz on May 14, 2010, 04:02:37 AM
you mean like 225/45/13 Ho-Ho A6's?????

My rubber is covered, only has two events on them.

Toledo and Nats.

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi107.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm307%2Fbonespec%2F89%2520CRX%2520HF%2FRace%2520Items%2FP4110012.jpg&hash=83624e577f4ed54006206dad1b692726d0202819)
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: snm95ls on May 14, 2010, 04:14:42 AM
Cool story, Bone.

I gotta run the shitty old B-stone RE-11s. 

 :?:
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: MAJORAHOLE on May 14, 2010, 08:20:41 AM
i  refuse to believe thats the best there is
im not looking for the best stuff, just decent quality for the price. 

Hrm, contradiction?

i guess, i meant best bang for the buck. i have eibach road race springs on my civic now, they are really stiff. obviously that means shitty on the road. i just didnt know if there was some other shit that was good and not $1500. i thought about the bilsteins too, just not sure if the sports could control my springs.


does anyone know if i could just find some threaded collars, so i could raise my shit up a bit?
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: dvst8r on May 14, 2010, 09:56:39 AM
i  refuse to believe thats the best there is
im not looking for the best stuff, just decent quality for the price. 

Hrm, contradiction?
... i thought about the bilsteins too, just not sure if the sports could control my springs.


does anyone know if i could just find some threaded collars, so i could raise my shit up a bit?

Revalve.

GC.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Lowerit on May 14, 2010, 11:45:34 AM
sccaforums.com

go to the forsale section.

I picked up 4 GC springs (380's and 430's)  for $100.

there was a set of revalved koni's for an EG on there with springs cheap a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 14, 2010, 04:46:59 PM
snm98ls summed it up.

Er, Blake, not to argue but the guy who won the Wolf Laurel Hillclimb last year (EH hatch, in the rain, but he still managed to three wheel every corner) is a daily driven Civic.  It feels smooth on the road.   His buddy's 86 CRX hillclimb car has 27mm torsion bars and 600lb rear springs, feels great on the road too.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: onlyflash944 on May 14, 2010, 05:41:07 PM
i have 600 lb rear springs in the eg and i sure as hell wouldn't call the ride smooth, even with the koni yellows on full soft.  especially with the roads around here
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: chris on May 14, 2010, 05:51:10 PM
1000 pound rears are a blast on bad roads
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: runsfromdacops on May 14, 2010, 06:02:48 PM
you cant go fast at the track and have a nice ride on the way home unless you have some cash to spend, gota comprimise one way or the other.
i still vote for n+ they are pre load and hight ajustable and comp. ajst. koni/gc are just preload and comp.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 15, 2010, 10:21:09 AM
i have 600 lb rear springs in the eg and i sure as hell wouldn't call the ride smooth, even with the koni yellows on full soft.  especially with the roads around here


Haha.  Not to be mean, sir, but there's a bit of a quality difference between the Honda a 45 year old man who's a BMW driving instructor drives and what somebody off a lowrent trash site like ours drives.   Your car is fun, his is too but he's spent a lot more money on it.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: accordepicenter on May 15, 2010, 10:35:32 AM
Im gonna go ahead and say if you can get a set of GC coilovers with some revalved konis or bilsteins thats probably the best for the money
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: onlyflash944 on May 15, 2010, 10:48:54 AM
i have 600 lb rear springs in the eg and i sure as hell wouldn't call the ride smooth, even with the koni yellows on full soft.  especially with the roads around here


Haha.  Not to be mean, sir, but there's a bit of a quality difference between the Honda a 45 year old man who's a BMW driving instructor drives and what somebody off a lowrent trash site like ours drives.   Your car is fun, his is too but he's spent a lot more money on it.

you trying to say the rust holes don't make my car go faster?
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 16, 2010, 09:48:17 AM
Not at all.  I'm just saying the rich man's ride is smoooooth as Spiker's babyfat ass.  After you shave it and run in some cocoa butter, of course.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: HiProfile on May 20, 2010, 01:35:24 AM
Ebay coilovers + Illuminas + 22mm rear sway = drifting ED3. Man that was fun.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: crttaz on May 20, 2010, 04:37:10 AM
Buying a sorted car is worth it........

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi107.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm307%2Fbonespec%2F89%2520CRX%2520HF%2F10-8-09%2FPA080008.jpg&hash=d33fa0bebb7c15ac77f09815aff7fb69a29a1ea7)

http://www.sccatimetrials.org/results/2005/20051015reg.php (http://www.sccatimetrials.org/results/2005/20051015reg.php)

Not only did it do Time Trials (open track) but also did SCCA Autox Nationals and placed VERY well.

I've detuned the car to full soft on the Koni's and ST rear sway bar. On sticky street Dunlop SP Sport 8000's, slightest trail braking and the rear wants to step out, but very controllable with throttle inputs. H&R springs, dunno if they are the race ones, but fairly stiff. I'd say 350-400F, 250-300R.

Car is more capable than me right now....and thats without the sticky Hoosier A6's I have.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 20, 2010, 09:35:28 AM
Car is more capable than me right now

I know the feeling.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: kgx on May 20, 2010, 01:04:14 PM
Not at all.  I'm just saying the rich man's ride is smoooooth as Spiker's babyfat ass.  After you shave it and run in some cocoa butter, of course.

much of that comes from decent high speed damping- something almost every <$2000 coilover completely ignores. like you said, stiffer isn't necessarily better- especially when you can control roll with the bars. when you start getting too stiff, the car is very difficult to settle over bumps. nothing changes the color of your underwear faster than hitting a bump and having the car instantaneously jump about 2 feet toward the outside of the turn before it plants itself again.

KYB AGXs are the absolute worst shock for high speed damping. people who run those obviously like their internal organs shaken, not stirred.

wanna get crazy? run hydraulic weight jackers at each corner with a 2-axis accelerometer controlling the pump/ pressure as the car pitches and rolls to keep it perfectly flat (and effectively control the camber curve of the suspension), while keeping ultra-soft spring rates to generate mechanical grip. that's pretty much how the active suspension systems in the lotus and williams F1 cars worked. although, they had the added aero advantage that comes with keeping the car flat relative to the ground.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 20, 2010, 01:22:09 PM
I bet one of the electric diesel pumps would handle light oil (what diesel is) as well as be expressly designed for variable voltage (or just PWM, everything can handle that) duty.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: MAJORAHOLE on May 20, 2010, 01:25:10 PM
I bet one of the electric diesel pumps would handle light oil (what diesel is) as well as be expressly designed for variable voltage (or just PWM, everything can handle that) duty.
you said duty....

i guess i will just sell my springs on honda-tech to some douche, and start over.
probably will be getting another civic here anyway, hopefully hatchback, and i can start new.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: kgx on May 20, 2010, 04:20:48 PM
Quote from: JD
I bet one of the electric diesel pumps would handle light oil (what diesel is) as well as be expressly designed for variable voltage (or just PWM, everything can handle that) duty.

jesus, why didn't i think of that? i never even considered a diesel fuel pump. i'd think just running a single pump with an accumulator and maybe an ABS valve assembly to each corner might work. a friend and i are in the process of designing a scratch built tube frame middy to run in STR1 and STR2, with full aero and an LMP type body. he loves the idea of active suspension, but the implementation of it seemed cumbersome at the time. might be time to reconsider it..


just be glad you're not stuck with mcfailson struts at all 4 corners :D
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 20, 2010, 04:50:31 PM
an ABS valve assembly to each corner

And why didn't I think of that?

Thank you for existing, Mr. G.  Looks like stability control just boiled down to some random junkyard bits and $35 in electronics plus coding.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: SgtB on May 20, 2010, 09:27:29 PM
No shit... Poor mans ESC!  I've been trying to do fuel cut off of abs sensors.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Phate on May 22, 2010, 02:45:20 PM
This thread just got so awesome for my techno-geek ass.

No shit... Poor mans ESC!  I've been trying to do fuel cut off of abs sensors.

I like this idea.  A lot.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: onlyflash944 on May 24, 2010, 10:58:56 AM
an ABS valve assembly to each corner

And why didn't I think of that?

Thank you for existing, Mr. G.  Looks like stability control just boiled down to some random junkyard bits and $35 in electronics plus coding.

mid 90 and new 6.5 turbo diesel gms have an electric fuel pump under the driver's side frame rail that are the canister style and only cost like 80 new from advance.  ask me how i know....
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: HiProfile on May 30, 2010, 03:51:14 PM
Freescale low-G accelerometer sensors are cheap, assuming you don't need digital outputs. They work with the most basic circuit if required - voltage in, ground, and output.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Phate on May 31, 2010, 01:19:53 AM
Freescale low-G accelerometer sensors are cheap, assuming you don't need digital outputs. They work with the most basic circuit if required - voltage in, ground, and output.

So assuming the car is going to be racing on a generally smooth surface, you could use a couple of accelerometers on the main axes of movement (fore-aft, left-right), and some controls to pump up the shocks on the outside to stiffen the car and decrease roll.  Could also be done to reduce front end dive under braking.  Likely not much more of a clusterfuck of hydraulic lines than a stock ABS system is.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Jorsher on May 31, 2010, 01:39:34 AM
I'm glad I checked this thread again.  Cool ideas.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: kgx on June 01, 2010, 12:14:27 AM
Freescale low-G accelerometer sensors are cheap, assuming you don't need digital outputs. They work with the most basic circuit if required - voltage in, ground, and output.

So assuming the car is going to be racing on a generally smooth surface, you could use a couple of accelerometers on the main axes of movement (fore-aft, left-right), and some controls to pump up the shocks on the outside to stiffen the car and decrease roll.  Could also be done to reduce front end dive under braking.  Likely not much more of a clusterfuck of hydraulic lines than a stock ABS system is.

and squat under accel. that's a HUGE advantage under braking, since you no longer have added camber from compression making the car try to brake on the insides of the tires. it's generally a much better way to manage the contact patch, while keeping the car soft enough to work over even the worst bumps.

also,
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=847 (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=847)

$29 dual axis accelerometer breakout board good to +/- 5g with analog voltage output proportional to acceleration.
Title: Re: who does Autocross? What suspension?
Post by: Phate on June 01, 2010, 12:59:57 AM
Freescale low-G accelerometer sensors are cheap, assuming you don't need digital outputs. They work with the most basic circuit if required - voltage in, ground, and output.

So assuming the car is going to be racing on a generally smooth surface, you could use a couple of accelerometers on the main axes of movement (fore-aft, left-right), and some controls to pump up the shocks on the outside to stiffen the car and decrease roll.  Could also be done to reduce front end dive under braking.  Likely not much more of a clusterfuck of hydraulic lines than a stock ABS system is.

and squat under accel. that's a HUGE advantage under braking, since you no longer have added camber from compression making the car try to brake on the insides of the tires. it's generally a much better way to manage the contact patch, while keeping the car soft enough to work over even the worst bumps.

also,
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=847 (http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=847)

$29 dual axis accelerometer breakout board good to +/- 5g with analog voltage output proportional to acceleration.

Damn.  I'm achiving this thread for myself.  This could be a cool as hell use for my "capstone project" I have to do my senior year of college.  "What did you do?"  "active suspension system for my car.  Makes a honda accord handle like a corvette, while riding smoothly.  *borat voice* Is NIIIIIIIICCCE!"

Or at least research the feasibility of it.  Something like this, thrown into a prelude with 4WS and ATTS, could make for a car cabable of some scary, scary things in the corners.