:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Engine Management => Topic started by: 92CXyD on June 27, 2010, 03:34:00 PM
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I'm looking for a good basemap for a 3-stage vtec D15b or D15z7.
I searched all I can find is S300 maps and AEM maps in D-series.org
http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-management/121398-d15b-3-stage-engine-control.html (http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-management/121398-d15b-3-stage-engine-control.html)
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You'll need to make one.
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You'll need to make one.
I figured as much. :-\
I was thinking loading a p28 map in a p72 rom in Crome.
I'm using the first 12-16v actuation solenoid off of the IAB code.
Setting the IAB function in Crome at 3k.
Then find a d15z1 or y5 map and copy for 3k and under and past to p28 map.
Then set up the rest of the map above 3k revs like a normal z6 style map for boost.
Any other ideas?
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Run a normal cylinder head instead?
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Run a normal cylinder head instead?
No I want to try something different. ;D
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The only thing different is the amount of hassle. I was about to get one of those heads when I realised it was another small port head for a small bore motor, and the limit of the system was not in the cam/valve sizes. I still want one, but it's not the "smart" spend of time and money that a normal person would seek out.
Ultimately, I realised one of those heads would run no better than a Z6/Y8, and the pinnacle of my discussions regarding all the time and effort I spent on seting one up would be teenage boys asking why I had two VTEC solenoids. Kinda reduced my passion for the idea to ashes.
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The only thing different is the amount of hassle. I was about to get one of those heads when I realised it was another small port head for a small bore motor, and the limit of the system was not in the cam/valve sizes. I still want one, but it's not the "smart" spend of time and money that a normal person would seek out.
Ultimately, I realised one of those heads would run no better than a Z6/Y8, and the pinnacle of my discussions regarding all the time and effort I spent on seting one up would be teenage boys asking why I had two VTEC solenoids. Kinda reduced my passion for the idea to ashes.
I believe on the high rev. side it would run slightly better because of the stock cam specs.
reference: http://causeforalarm.thecarthing.com/version6/version6.EG/3-stage_VTEC/index.html (http://causeforalarm.thecarthing.com/version6/version6.EG/3-stage_VTEC/index.html)
looking at the high cam lift ht.
I'm taking mine z7 head apart and look the cam. I got it from jdmhatchracer94 and he was told from the previous owner of this head that it already has a delta regrind in it.
As for the fuel and ign. maps I want to be able to drive to Seattle next year and get 45mpg+ and still get a good dyno run. ;D
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A slightly more aggressive cam won't make up for tiny ports
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A slightly more aggressive cam won't make up for tiny ports
You have no idea what you are talking about. That or you are think d15z7 = d15z1 in head casting. :?:
D15z7 = z6/y8 port size. Matter of fact the d15z7 head is a y8 head with the extra oil holes drilled.
Y8 head can be drill to do the same thing beacuse the oil passages are already cast in them.
The cam follower assembly, cam, and LMA from D15z7 can be bolted on to the y8 head.
reference: http://www.d-series.org/forums/general-tech/119313-3-stage-vtec-comprehensive-info-d15b-d15z7.html (http://www.d-series.org/forums/general-tech/119313-3-stage-vtec-comprehensive-info-d15b-d15z7.html)
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Without measuring anything or verifying figures, I'd be willing to bet Y5 cam is bigger.
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Here is some port size picts I took during my lunch.
Z7 head
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi653.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu254%2F92CXyD%2F100_0374.jpg%3Ft%3D1277750003&hash=74a788e3e9db8efbd11083267d93e6c6ba171de2)
Y8 head
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi653.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu254%2F92CXyD%2F100_0376.jpg%3Ft%3D1277750003&hash=2ab2e96ac67874dd4c401ae76f845085cbee6643)
Z6 head
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi653.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu254%2F92CXyD%2F100_0377.jpg%3Ft%3D1277750003&hash=1083a81d6a78953c3951b1b94749ec2e88ab8fcd)
Did quick valve diameter measurements and they were the same.
y5 cam spec.
D16Y5 Cam Lobe Heights mm in
Primary 38.427 1.5129
Secondary 32.292 1.2713
Exhaust 38.784 1.5269
D15Z7 Cam Lobe Heights mm in
Primary 36.662 1.4434
Mid 38.274 1.5068
Secondary 32.29 1.271
Exhaust 38.008 1.4964
D16Y8 Cam Lobe Heights mm in
Primary 36.778 1.4479
Mid 38.274 1.5068
Secondary 37.065 1.4592
Exhaust 38.008 1.4964
D16Z6 Cam Lobe Heights mm in
Primary 35.900 1.4134
Mid 38.107 1.5003
Secondary 36.195 1.4592
Exhaust 38.008 1.4964
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Yeah, tiny tumble flow D16Y ports.
And, those numbers aren't correct. I know it's a different rocker, but the secondaries are not smaller than the primaries.
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Yeah, tiny tumble flow D16Y ports.
And, those numbers aren't correct. I know it's a different rocker, but the secondaries are not smaller than the primaries.
I pulled those from the first link I posted. I'll measure my a z6, y8, and the z7 cam tonight. I'm curious if the cam with my z7 head is stock or a Delta regrind.
I do not see much info rocker ratios for the y8, z6, y5, or z7 head on the web much. But I know I can just mathematically figure it out after knowing the gross lift.
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You're wasting your time
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"Delta Regrind" is below. Stock Base Circle
D15Z7 Cam Lobe Heights mm in mm in mm in
Primary 36.662 1.4434 36.662 1.4434 32.2 1.267
Mid 38.38 1.511 38.274 1.5068 32.4 1.276
Secondary 32.29 1.271 32.29 1.271 31.7 1.248
Exhaust 38.10 1.500 38.008 1.4964 32.9 1.295
Rocker ratios are the same as between y7/y8 z6 and z7.
1.60:1 intake
1.80:1 exhaust
So the Mid profile has been modified 8) for sure and the exhaust profile maybe. :-\
The cam looks in better condition than any of my y8 or z6 stock cams I have laying here in my garage.
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crower!
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crower!
Crower does not do 3-stage vtec cam. ;D
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THe d15z1 timing wouldn't work correct anyways. It's based on a gas-saver TB/IM/Head, and I think the valve angle is different too. You'd probably need less timing than the z1, but a litte more than the 16-valve map from whatever motor the primary/secondary is closest to.
I'd say tune it like a y8 in full 16-valve mode, then add timing for partial throttle in 12-valve mode. Less air injested means lower peak cylinder pressure, meaning less density, meaning slower burn speed, needing more timing.
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THe d15z1 timing wouldn't work correct anyways. It's based on a gas-saver TB/IM/Head, and I think the valve angle is different too. You'd probably need less timing than the z1, but a litte more than the 16-valve map from whatever motor the primary/secondary is closest to.
I'd say tune it like a y8 in full 16-valve mode, then add timing for partial throttle in 12-valve mode. Less air injested means lower peak cylinder pressure, meaning less density, meaning slower burn speed, needing more timing.
That sound like a good path to tune on. Thanks. ;D