:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Fabrication => Topic started by: slappynuts on January 14, 2012, 10:25:13 AM

Title: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 14, 2012, 10:25:13 AM
I am working on a lathe/mill bed design that takes the bulk of the machine and makes it out of things that are readily available to menards/home depot. I am going to try to design a useful machine that anyone can build anywhere and it can be as big as we want it or as small as we want. I think we can get some of the people on the forum here that have things like laser cutters and cnc machines involved for parts that cannot be made with simple tools. They can also give advice for the project.

Im thinking a cross between this.

http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/13335163/1942903983/name/MM++lathe+How+to+Build21a.pdf (http://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/13335163/1942903983/name/MM++lathe+How+to+Build21a.pdf)

And the gingery lathe.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: 92CXyD on January 14, 2012, 02:44:12 PM
I like this idea,  :noel:

Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 14, 2012, 02:48:43 PM
I like this idea,  :noel:

Good then you can help me. Draw up some half block cement blocks in google sketchup. We are going to be bolting these together with 1/4" steel plates in between with threaded rod. This is the plan. Rigid and lots of mass. I think we can get MBS to cut us the parts and just about anyone will be able to bolt one together.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: 92CXyD on January 14, 2012, 02:52:45 PM
I like this idea,  :noel:

Good then you can help me. Draw up some half block cement blocks in google sketchup. We are going to be bolting these together with 1/4" steel plates in between with threaded rod. This is the plan. Rigid and lots of mass. I think we can get MBS to cut us the parts and just about anyone will be able to bolt one together.

alright I'll have to get use google sketch again, been a while. I rather sketch it up on some Engineering Comp paper.  :noel:

Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 14, 2012, 02:55:59 PM
I am trying to keep it in a format that people can all download and use freely. There is even a patch for sketchup to convert files to DXF so that it can be easily cut by CNC machines.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: 92CXyD on January 14, 2012, 03:14:22 PM
Kool  :noel:
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: 92CXyD on January 14, 2012, 05:13:15 PM
Cool idea. I have never used Google sketchup but I have pro-e, solidworks, AutoCAD, master cams, etc if you some drawings done.

Do ya have any bootleg copys I can get from ya?  :noel:
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 14, 2012, 05:24:13 PM
Cool idea. I have never used Google sketchup but I have pro-e, solidworks, AutoCAD, master cams, etc if you some drawings done.

Google sketchup is free and if you can use production cad you can step right in and use sketchup. We need to keep this so everyone can contribute. Here is a great tutorial.

http://sketchup.google.com/training/videos/new_to_gsu.html (http://sketchup.google.com/training/videos/new_to_gsu.html)

link to software.

http://sketchup.google.com/download/gsu.html (http://sketchup.google.com/download/gsu.html)

Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 14, 2012, 08:04:23 PM
While I enjoy building equipment, this is going to end with lackluster results. The amount of work that goes into something like this to effectively cut metals will far exceed the cost of buying a good used machine. Now if you are trying to cut plastic or wood with very loose tolerances and no need for a good surface finish you will likely be much more satisfied.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 14, 2012, 08:40:51 PM
While I enjoy building equipment, this is going to end with lackluster results. The amount of work that goes into something like this to effectively cut metals will far exceed the cost of buying a good used machine. Now if you are trying to cut plastic or wood with very loose tolerances and no need for a good surface finish you will likely be much more satisfied.

People get decent tolerances out of the gingery lathe, its all about who sets the machine up. What we are working on will be much more rigid and larger than the gingery is. We have a couple of grizzly machines in the shop I work at and those are what I am shooting for as far as tolerances go. I think to keep it simple for now im going to use a grizly X/Y table.

These are $132

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn0.grizzly.com%2Fpics%2Fjpeg500%2Fg%2Fg8750.jpg&hash=fe0388bb2da7f2c48290cd538b169060bf942070)
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 02:16:23 AM
First part is drawn (took about 5 min  :P ). I will look for a place that hosts files so anyone can get the parts and start contributing at anytime.

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi886.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac61%2Fslappynuts_photos%2Fhalfblock.jpg&hash=7b26983530ba82759874ed84322189c85ad10c1f)
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 02:19:35 AM
Here you guys go. Anyone with google SKP should be able to open this file and add whatever they like to it.

http://www.filedropper.com/halfblock (http://www.filedropper.com/halfblock)
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 15, 2012, 02:25:11 AM
While I enjoy building equipment, this is going to end with lackluster results. The amount of work that goes into something like this to effectively cut metals will far exceed the cost of buying a good used machine. Now if you are trying to cut plastic or wood with very loose tolerances and no need for a good surface finish you will likely be much more satisfied.

People get decent tolerances out of the gingery lathe, its all about who sets the machine up. What we are working on will be much more rigid and larger than the gingery is. We have a couple of grizzly machines in the shop I work at and those are what I am shooting for as far as tolerances go. I think to keep it simple for now im going to use a grizly X/Y table.

These are $132

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn0.grizzly.com%2Fpics%2Fjpeg500%2Fg%2Fg8750.jpg&hash=fe0388bb2da7f2c48290cd538b169060bf942070)

Mass only goes so far for rigidity, the fit of the parts is going to be pinacle here. Are you good at scraping? What are you using for a spindle?
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 02:33:59 AM
 I think compressed concrete blocks with steel bar stock between them is going to be very rigid. Im looking at ways to test rigidity right now.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 15, 2012, 03:06:33 AM
I think compressed concrete blocks with steel bar stock between them is going to be very rigid. Im looking at ways to test rigidity right now.

It will resonate a lot, which is not good for machining. Aside from that, how are you going to deal with all of your precision mounting surfaces? I honestly think you would be a lot better off just building a steel weldement for a base, if you want to get fancy you could fill the cavities with a high shore urethane.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 03:15:46 AM
I think compressed concrete blocks with steel bar stock between them is going to be very rigid. Im looking at ways to test rigidity right now.

It will resonate a lot, which is not good for machining. Aside from that, how are you going to deal with all of your precision mounting surfaces? I honestly think you would be a lot better off just building a steel weldement for a base, if you want to get fancy you could fill the cavities with a high shore urethane.

I thought about that as well. Everything is a trade off, cost vs accuracy. One of the ideas I also has was core filling the block.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 15, 2012, 03:35:42 AM
I think compressed concrete blocks with steel bar stock between them is going to be very rigid. Im looking at ways to test rigidity right now.

It will resonate a lot, which is not good for machining. Aside from that, how are you going to deal with all of your precision mounting surfaces? I honestly think you would be a lot better off just building a steel weldement for a base, if you want to get fancy you could fill the cavities with a high shore urethane.

I thought about that as well. Everything is a trade off, cost vs accuracy. One of the ideas I also has was core filling the block.

Which brings me back to my first comment of just buying the machine used, better quality, less cost, less time.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 03:44:25 AM
We will see when I get to testing it I guess.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 03:47:08 AM
My other thought was using engine blocks or cyl heads as the backbone of the machine. I think that would work well but it would be harder to come up with standard parts that everyone could use.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 11:25:21 AM
I am leaning toward round ways.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 15, 2012, 11:49:25 AM
I think bar stock ways with babbit bearings would be a very effective Nog procedure.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: rawr on January 15, 2012, 11:58:46 AM
I think compressed concrete blocks with steel bar stock between them is going to be very rigid. Im looking at ways to test rigidity right now.

Buy an old surface plate for a base.  People sell them used all the time for entirely too cheap when they get pitted and worn. Plus you can resurface them with sandpaper and a flat bar ;DDD
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: rawr on January 15, 2012, 12:00:28 PM
As much as i hate to I kind of agree with dave here. I've seen used mills for less than the cost of what the steel to make them would be.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: crxvtec91 on January 15, 2012, 01:50:47 PM
I say go for it, do it the rhmt way cheap and good!
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: glustic on January 15, 2012, 10:50:45 PM
Good thing buk hasnt chimed in here
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 15, 2012, 10:56:38 PM
Round ways = tres balls. No adjustment...

Engine blocks for a base, is much better then concrete, particularily if you filled the bores and water passages.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 16, 2012, 03:01:35 AM
Round ways if set up the right way are adjustable in every direction. My only concern with them would be rigidity but it will have support every 8" from between the blocks.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 16, 2012, 10:56:11 AM
I havr two laptops with full battery ~9 hours and a 17hr plane trip coming up. then an overnight layover in Manila to work on my design. I should have something for you guys by the end of the week.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: bigdaddyvtec on January 16, 2012, 12:38:23 PM
Hopefully you can find some time to fuck yourself int there as well... It may provide a bit of relief from all the twigpussy cock you sat on over there in Ladyboiheaven.








FUCK YOU  :-*
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 16, 2012, 02:48:11 PM
Round ways if set up the right way are adjustable in every direction. My only concern with them would be rigidity but it will have support every 8" from between the blocks.

No, not really, that is precisely why they are not used for machine tools.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 16, 2012, 03:08:32 PM
That is exactly what they have in that first link I posted.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 16, 2012, 07:13:16 PM
I see that, but they are junk. Simple box, or dovetail will work much better because you can actually have some gib adjustment.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 16, 2012, 07:54:01 PM
I plan on running them on the side and making them adjustable.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 16, 2012, 08:38:20 PM
I plan on running them on the side and making them adjustable.

So that you have two tiny assed contact points on your cylinder leaving the rest to rattle around? Seriously, think about it, box ways have huge surface contact area and can be adjusted for pressure by two gibs only. Even if you had 4 gibs on a cylinder you wouldn't have 1/16 the amount of contact of a square gib of the SAME surface area.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: weirtech on January 17, 2012, 09:36:26 AM
i'd go with box way or dovetail for sure.  far more rigid imo.

have you thought about casting the base out of metal?
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: mandrel-bends on January 17, 2012, 03:31:50 PM
You know you can buy old mills off craigslist for ~500-1000 bucks if you're patient. This is going to get expensive and time consuming fast. 
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: dvst8r on January 17, 2012, 06:20:27 PM
...This is going to get expensive and time consuming fast.

He is in employee getting paid by the hour, he has all the time in the world.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 17, 2012, 10:04:37 PM
...This is going to get expensive and time consuming fast.

He is in employee getting paid by the hour, he has all the time in the world.

Whaaaatttt, you mean being self employed doesn't mean having unlimited time and money?
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: dvst8r on January 17, 2012, 10:35:16 PM
...This is going to get expensive and time consuming fast.

He is in employee getting paid by the hour, he has all the time in the world.

Whaaaatttt, you mean being self employed doesn't mean having unlimited time and money?

Well in your case unlimited money fits  :P, but you do seem to be short on time typically...  :D
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: DSharp on January 17, 2012, 11:40:49 PM
sounds like a 4 axis mill, no?  I'm currently designing/building a cnc router. for cheep ball screws and linear bearings check out ebay. I just bought 3 ball screws and linear rail sets 500mm 1000mm and 1500mm travel for around 500 from linearmotionbearing2008.  ball screws are precision grade c7 so you'll get .002" lead accuracy per foot and the backlash is typically around .0005".

You need to be concerned with the rigidity of your machine.  from what Ive found you want the following minimum for milling:
50,000 lbs/in deflection for steel
12,000 lbs/in defection  for Al
2,000 lbs/in for wood

this is between the cutting tool and the work piece.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 18, 2012, 04:06:54 PM
...This is going to get expensive and time consuming fast.

He is in employee getting paid by the hour, he has all the time in the world.

Whaaaatttt, you mean being self employed doesn't mean having unlimited time and money?

Well in your case unlimited money fits  :P, but you do seem to be short on time typically...  :D

I wouldn't be comfortable having one without the other. Unfortunately I have neither.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 18, 2012, 04:14:34 PM
It has been done before with the round ways. I think this is the simplest way to build this machine on the cheap. This also has the advantage of being able to be assembled in places you could never get a existing machine.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: Passenger on January 18, 2012, 04:25:29 PM
It has been done before with the round ways. I think this is the simplest way to build this machine on the cheap. This also has the advantage of being able to be assembled in places you could never get a existing machine.

Right, it was done and abandoned, for a reason. You realize you can buy used machine tools even in third world shitholes right? It seems like you are trying to create a solution for which there is no problem.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 19, 2012, 05:30:53 PM
So who else wants to help design this? I am open to whatever type of ways we decide on as a group.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: rawr on January 19, 2012, 05:51:54 PM
come up with a cooler idea for something to design and i'll help you
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 19, 2012, 05:56:34 PM
come up with a cooler idea for something to design and i'll help you

This is a cool design. Oh well, fuck it I will just buy one.
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: rawr on January 19, 2012, 06:02:13 PM
it would be cool to make out of something in your garage but it's not going to be out of material thats easy enough to aquire to make it universal. Like if you have a hook up on engine blocks or something, know what I mean, dog?
Title: Re: We need a group design project.
Post by: slappynuts on January 19, 2012, 06:19:05 PM
it would be cool to make out of something in your garage but it's not going to be out of material thats easy enough to aquire to make it universal. Like if you have a hook up on engine blocks or something, know what I mean, dog?

The stuff im designing with are probably the most readily available stuff you can get.