:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HiProfile on February 13, 2012, 10:26:32 PM
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So I'm probably going to trash the 500whp gsr civic idea (still keeping the built/boosted D16). I figured I'd rather not have TWO force-inducted FWD cars, and instead go RWD.
I really want to do v8 into a rwd car like an SC300 or a E36. All the local SC300's are pimped out in 22's and eye-stabbing paint, BMW's not so much. GTO's and the like are still more than I want to pay, and they just feel big/fat.
http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/2839936801.html (http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/2839936801.html)
I figure this one is a decent start, as it looks like an M3 but I have to pay for the M52. I don't have to worry about smog/emissions either in WI. All the BS on this car could sell for some return, as a LQ4/LM7 would need something different. I have a friend that deals heavily with turbocharged GM shit in other chassis's, so that won't be too bad of a problem. Short term I'd run it stock with a delta cam & minor bolt-ons.
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Bad idea. Two of the best engines ever built came in the E36 and the SC300.
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yeah but they wont make the numbers he wants n/a im sure. Therefore i vote bimmer with a lsjuan cause e36's are just sexy and have some serious handling potential.
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I'm looking at 2 major factors:
1) Ease of making >500whp
2) Price
Those are 2 things not easy to do at the same time with an M50 or a 2JZ-GE. I should have mentioned long-term it will have a big fat turbo on the motor. My friend had a mustang he's dropped a forged LS1 into, built his own turbo kit, and tuned it himself. He was turning 11's with worn street tires with just 5psi.
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SC300 = poor man's Supra :noel:
But I believe the BMW has more tune ability options.
Both if in good condition = baller status
Get the cheapest of the two, if it is cheaper to do a LSx in it then go for it.
But I think it would still be cheaper with the SC300, baring any crack head pricing you may come across on Crackheadslist. :noel:
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1uzfe an SC300, 1uz's can be had for absolutely dirty cheap in bagged on SC400's.
Dyno of a bone stock internals 1uz from a Canuck yota forum, Megasquirt and Precision Turbo Billet 6262
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1110.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fh452%2Fsgroenink%2F573hpcorrecteddyno.jpg&hash=ffe5d561a14845ec907b2fc5d25a363a980b99bc)
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There are a few SC300's in the 2k range, but as I said they all will smell like pimp juice and weed. 3-series in the same condition are 500-1k more.
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I'm dying inside thinking about a v8 in an e36. I have one and couldn't imagine doing that to it. Why not rx7, 240, etc?
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M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.
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That's true. You will have to beef up the rear end but you would have to anyway if you went v8. The tranny will take that all day though.
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Don't like the ricer stigma with those "imports". Besides I can get a sc300 or 3-series for less than a 240/rx7/mk3 supra in the same condition. And they look better IMO.
I was thinking SC400, but didn't really look into the motor. 600wtq is really nuts for a stock block & MS. I think the main prob would be the tranny. Manual are basicly non-existant, and swapping to anything supra won't be cheap. Besides my friend lives/breathes LSX, and I know a lot of people who deal with GM-related trans & rearends.
I guess the real question is what sort of maintenance nightmares will I have with these two 10-15yr old cars? I'd presume the 1UZ will have aged a bit better.
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WI + E30 = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or RUST BUCKET
Last E30 I saw priced below 2k had a stripped engine, huge rust spots, and a convertable top with several holes in it. Sorry, not till I move down south.
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E30 + ls1 > e36 + ls1
Granted I haven't looked too deeply into it, but it seems like cramming 10 lbs of shit into a 1 lb bag. Lots of work to make the brake MC fit and function from the one swap I saw any documentation on.
I like the E30, but dislike the hipsters that drive them around my area.
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M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.
LSx + cam + tune = 500whp pretty easily, add boost to it and we can see double that. There really is no comparison here.
I think you should put it in whatever you find on the cheap. Lsonechevelle's buddy Neil that did the cream dream, one of the guy's that is helping him build version 2.0 is doing an LSx into a bmw318, not sure what year, but so far it looks pretty pimp.
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M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.
LSx + cam + tune = 500whp pretty easily, add boost to it and we can see double that. There really is no comparison here.
I think you should put it in whatever you find on the cheap. Lsonechevelle's buddy Neil that did the cream dream, one of the guy's that is helping him build version 2.0 is doing an LSx into a bmw318, not sure what year, but so far it looks pretty pimp.
The cheapest way to 1000whp may still be the M50.
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M50 + holset + sinktrap + chip tune = 500whp pretty easily.
LSx + cam + tune = 500whp pretty easily, add boost to it and we can see double that. There really is no comparison here.
I think you should put it in whatever you find on the cheap. Lsonechevelle's buddy Neil that did the cream dream, one of the guy's that is helping him build version 2.0 is doing an LSx into a bmw318, not sure what year, but so far it looks pretty pimp.
The cheapest way to 1000whp may still be the M50.
So stock LQ4, flipped stock manifolds, BWS475 (even brand new they are only $600) or any other 75mm jy turbo, and a tune. Will get you to 1000 hp. Not sure how it could get any cheaper.
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Cheapest way to 1000hp is probably 6.0L in a ragged out camaro. Next is probably supra. I don't see 1000hp being too easy with an M50. 700=easy, 1000= 2x as hard. That's my opinion though. I have done some research on boosted e36's but never tried it.
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Then I guess the question is what's the best non-domestic RWD car to stuff a LSX into? I'm talking mainly price to make it still handle better than a camaro.
Bear in mind everything pre-90 is rotted out in WI, and most pre-95 is rusted & on it's way out.
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Don't like the ricer stigma with those "imports". Besides I can get a sc300 or 3-series for less than a 240/rx7/mk3 supra in the same condition. And they look better IMO.
I was thinking SC400, but didn't really look into the motor. 600wtq is really nuts for a stock block & MS. I think the main prob would be the tranny. Manual are basicly non-existant, and swapping to anything supra won't be cheap. Besides my friend lives/breathes LSX, and I know a lot of people who deal with GM-related trans & rearends.
I guess the real question is what sort of maintenance nightmares will I have with these two 10-15yr old cars? I'd presume the 1UZ will have aged a bit better.
There are cheap way's and expensive ways to make it 5 speed. The transmissions you would be after would be either W series or R series out of Toyota P/U's or 80's/early 90's Supras
Expensive is he A1turbos R154 kit, 2k landed it is a cast bellhousing, flywheel, clutch& pressure plate and throw out/slave. the R154 is a MKIII Supra Turbo (86.5-1991?) and are a dime a dozen and can take some serious power. The guy's car that ran the dyno plot above uses that exact setup.
That said you can use an KS racing ebay bellhousing $479 shipped (they also have a bellhousing for the weaker W58/W57/W56 out of a N/A 85-1991 Supra and some trucks)
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1uz-1uzfe-toyota-Bellhousing-R154-gearbox-FREE-SHIP-/280825467673?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4162809319#ht_890wt_1156 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1uz-1uzfe-toyota-Bellhousing-R154-gearbox-FREE-SHIP-/280825467673?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4162809319#ht_890wt_1156)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/409177_437687829956_500514956_1533394_1446027555_n.jpg)
Saab9000 hydraulic slave with stock auto bellhousing and a home made steel adapter for W58. Dirty cheap.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc202%2FPoopy62%2FVolvo%2520122s%2FIMG_6341.jpg&hash=0712d4a6da04fb2be5ad926921cf427fe4d1ef3d)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc202%2FPoopy62%2FVolvo%2520122s%2F3f05154a.jpg&hash=db28ecdcdf770645b801bea1a692ac75a60842c5)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi212.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fcc202%2FPoopy62%2FVolvo%2520122s%2FIMG_6343.jpg&hash=73deee3f0b22488ba92077494e4407c537c37a46)
Stock Auto bellhousing with R150 truck tranny, adapter plate is from http://www.northwestfab.com/ (http://www.northwestfab.com/) Not sure its even listed on their site. Camaro Hydro slave. I think the adapter was $250ish.
Clutch and flywheel you can use a redrilled 3vze flywheel.
Do it.
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Good luck making 500rwhp on a LS1 with a stock bottom end. Can be done but its far from cheap. ls6 or ls22 is a better starting point if you dont want to rip apart the bottom end. Things get expensive quick in the LSx world.
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Good luck making 500rwhp on a LS1 with a stock bottom end. Can be done but its far from cheap. ls6 or ls22 is a better starting point if you dont want to rip apart the bottom end. Things get expensive quick in the LSx world.
+1
Most cam only LS1's make around 400whp. Gonna take some serious heads to make 500whp with a stock bottom end.
1UZ's are dirt cheap and strong.
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pito,
That R150 adapter work with R154?
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I believe so, best to give them a call and find out though.
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Bear in mind everything pre-90 is rotted out in WI, and most pre-95 is rusted & on it's way out.
Perfect for finding 1uz swap donors on the cheap. :noel:
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Good luck making 500rwhp on a LS1 with a stock bottom end. Can be done but its far from cheap. ls6 or ls22 is a better starting point if you dont want to rip apart the bottom end. Things get expensive quick in the LSx world.
+1
Most cam only LS1's make around 400whp. Gonna take some serious heads to make 500whp with a stock bottom end.
1UZ's are dirt cheap and strong.
I apreciate the info, but I'm really curious what world you guys are living in. This thread wasn't even about the original motors, just the chassis.
The 1UZ's I have access to (ebay, as I'm midwest) are $1500+. I'd either have to rebuild one if I got a high-milage (cheap) car, or pay 2-3x more for a car to start with a low milage engine. The R154 trans is priced the same on ebay, but likely be much older than anything I'd stick on an LSX. I've seen LQ4's for under $500, and tranny options for under $1k.
I'd be doing a bit more fabbing & buying with the LSX vs electronics on the 1UZ (I'm good at both), but the 1UZ wouldn't be turn-key either. I'd still be pulling shit all apart & buying a clutch, doing more age-related maintenance (5-10yr older motor), getting a custom driveshaft, doing much more tuning using MS, etc - I can see this going on. If I went 1UZ/R154, an accident would cost 3x as much. All that for something with 1.3-2.0 litres less displacement that no local really knows jack shit about. Not only that but an iron block version is no heavier than a 2JZ or 1UZ.
At this point I have to once again mention I'm in the midwest. There is a machine shop 1 block from my house with an LSX motor all the time. My buddy had an ls1 makign mid 400's NA and high 500's with spray. He only toasted it with a nitrous mishap (full shot off idle), which spun 3 main bearings. Now it's fully built (by said machine shop) and pulling wheelies with $1k in turbo parts he built & tuned himself.
Stock 4.8L internals (shortblock) besides regapped rings. 1203hp:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1109_stock_gm_ls_engine_big_bang_theory/ (http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_1109_stock_gm_ls_engine_big_bang_theory/)
523hp 5.3l - stock longblock (at that HP), 150k miles, ching-chong turbo, NO intercooler:
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1104_594hp_53l_gen_iii_small_block_for_3252/viewall.html (http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_1104_594hp_53l_gen_iii_small_block_for_3252/viewall.html)
IMO the 1UZ is only useful to me if I sell it. The SC300/400 seems to be a much better option now that I've looked into it, but not because I'd keep the existing engine. In the end I see both needing just as much work but the LSX having more options and more power.
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My only goal was to talk you out of putting it in a BMW. It doesn't hurt my feelings one bit if you want to stuff one in some 350z, is300, etc.
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Sorry, just trying to give you info, you kept asking questions or hinting at certain directions so I figured I would try to sway you. My mistake.
I still say throw whatever into a Lexus, just my .02 cents.
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Mustang or put a v8 in an old porsche. SCs are lame and heavy, bmws are lame.
this thread is done.
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Sorry, just trying to give you info, you kept asking questions or hinting at certain directions so I figured I would try to sway you. My mistake.
I still say throw whatever into a Lexus, just my .02 cents.
Hey I still appreciate it. I'm mainly looking LSX, since I have a 67 Firebirds I'm going to put one in anyways. I figured why deal with 2 types of motors.
Rawr if I wanted light RWD, I'd put a j35 into the rear of a Civic. It's main purpose will be semi-daily driving, with drag track duties on occation. I also want a car that isn't decades old or designed by some shitheads in Detroit, as I already have one of those.
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the cheapest way to get that much power and have a rwd v8 is to buy a mustang, after that... maybe a camaro or something
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I SAID THIS THREAD IS DONE.
944 LSX> ALL
Mustang > most
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Spiker's mother remains the best option. She has reasonable rates.
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Not really looking into a porsche. For the same exterior condition & milage, a 944 is the same price of a Sc300. The main prob is they'll be 10yrs older.
I'd do a Firebird, but I'm not really a fan. I've always had problems with my feet under the dash (no room), they look & feel like pigs, and they aren't much cheaper in the end. My mom has an 02 WS6 so I have a good idea.
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Don't be dumb. Fox body + lsx
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SCs are soooooooooo uggggggggglyyyyyyyy though. They're like the intergras uglier older brother.
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Don't be dumb. Fox body + lsx
I haz a '82 GT ready for you to buy for cheap :noel:
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I vote FD LSX. I would be jealous.
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S10.... ;DDD
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Don't be dumb. Fox body + lsx
I haz a '82 GT ready for you to buy for cheap :noel:
Close, but I'd much rather a fairmont/zephyr or a 4 eye tbird.
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Good luck making 500rwhp on a LS1 with a stock bottom end. Can be done but its far from cheap. ls6 or ls22 is a better starting point if you dont want to rip apart the bottom end. Things get expensive quick in the LSx world.
+1
Most cam only LS1's make around 400whp. Gonna take some serious heads to make 500whp with a stock bottom end.
1UZ's are dirt cheap and strong.
LS ANYTHING, Turbo, Ktech bolts....700 WHP. Period
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If you come to NJ ill donate you a running 1uz, and I have the cad plans to make a 1uz to r154 adaptor!
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Volvo 240/740/940.
Full Length Volvette Intoduction from The Anti Team (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFrPjMVhP04#ws)
Twin Turbo LS1 Volvo 740 Wagon! 500+ hp @ only 7 l - Car Videos on StreetFire (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/http://www.streetfire.net/video/twin-turbo-ls1-volvo-740-wagon-500-hp-only-7-l_84833.htm.htm)
Look at all that room in the bay.
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I'm not against volvos, but same problem with rust - hard to find a decent rwd example.
I'm just against the ageless UGLY that's represented in a fox body interior. I'm looking for a bit more luxury for this.
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id say do it in a sc300 cause there gay and i wouldnt be jealous. im really not a toyota fan in any way though, newer lexus - id roll one.
if you can find a cheap poorly running e36 318i/is should be cheaper and you wouldnt be wasting one of germanys finer engines, the bmw I6. if you wana be gangster like real gangster not black gangster you would get a 5 or 7 series bmw and make it a 1000 hp american muscle nazi tank
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I'm not against volvos, but same problem with rust - hard to find a decent rwd example.
I'm just against the ageless UGLY that's represented in a fox body interior. I'm looking for a bit more luxury for this.
volvos dont rust. My roommates 1990 has 0 rust on it. Less rust than my 03 gaybar.
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I've been looking into the salvageautosauction.com website for M3/SC's and LSx cars. Seems to be typical for $1k transportation and $500 fees for the salvage site. One guy did a 70's car w/lsx, paid $3k for a smashed camaro off that site and parted the extras for $1500. So $1500 for a full LS1 drivetrain isn't bad at all.