:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: d-rail on April 17, 2009, 04:30:30 AM

Title: Crank case pressure
Post by: d-rail on April 17, 2009, 04:30:30 AM
I'm cunt hair close to finishing my turbo setup, but before calling it good on my D16Z6 I'm wanting to make sure my thoughts on venting the crank case are ok. If I just run a like from the black box on the back side of my block to my vent case is that enough ventilation? Thanks.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: BoostForLife on April 17, 2009, 04:37:08 AM
remove the black box and find a 1/2" hose fitting or a plug for it. There usually 2 more big plugs on the back of the block, remove those and find a 1/2" barbed fitting for them. Run at least 1/2" hoses for each, tap one or two more hoses into the VC. Either make some shit like a catch can to collect the oil from gases, or run all the hoses to the ground.

Do your catch can / crank ventilation setup before you put the motor in the car, because it's a PITA once the motor is in the car.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: trevor72 on April 17, 2009, 04:53:21 AM
IMO even a catch can is not sufficient for a boosted app, anything racey should have close to neg crank case press driven by the exhaust/vac pump or what ever your budget allows.  its horsepower and ring seal we're talking about here boys. 
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: BoostForLife on April 17, 2009, 05:13:05 AM
I hate the exhaust setups,
only ballers run vaccum pumps, and guess what. We're not baller on RHMT, nigga. We make shit work.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: onlyflash944 on April 17, 2009, 07:33:41 AM
I hate the exhaust setups,
only ballers run vaccum pumps, and guess what. We're not baller on RHMT, nigga. We make shit work.

but what if we found a cheap as shit vac pump.  then we could make baller shit work.  research time
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Logan76 on April 17, 2009, 11:49:07 AM
I'm sure one of you guys could find a way to nigger rig this and make it work lol.

http://www.dream-models.com/eco/vacuumpump.html (http://www.dream-models.com/eco/vacuumpump.html)
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: 92CXyD on April 17, 2009, 12:28:38 PM
remove the black box and find a 1/2" hose fitting or a plug for it. There usually 2 more big plugs on the back of the block, remove those and find a 1/2" barbed fitting for them. Run at least 1/2" hoses for each, tap one or two more hoses into the VC. Either make some shit like a catch can to collect the oil from gases, or run all the hoses to the ground.

Do your catch can / crank ventilation setup before you put the motor in the car, because it's a PITA once the motor is in the car.

Any picts on this?

I'm about to button up d16z6/y8 before putting it in my car I would like to get done.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: BoostForLife on April 17, 2009, 04:02:12 PM
I don't know the exact location of these on the d-series, only the b18 blocks I know.
Just look on the back side of the block, there will be a couple of huge plugs screwed in there. Take them out and find a fitting or two to put a hose on them. It's actually very simple once you get the idea of it.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: 89hatchsir on April 17, 2009, 08:33:02 PM
I'll post this for the pics only. Shit is too expensive to buy. These take the place of the 14mm plugs on the backside of the block.
http://www.z10eng.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=42 (http://www.z10eng.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=42)

Or you can buy prelude fittings from honda. That's what I did. #2 and #17 in the picture. Look to be 1/2in. You need to get a fitting and a washer for each. Part #'s 11107-PK2-003 plug  and  12207-634-300  washer

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=PRELUDE&catcgry2=1994&catcgry3=2DR+SIVTEC&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=CYLINDER+BLOCK-OIL+PAN (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=PRELUDE&catcgry2=1994&catcgry3=2DR+SIVTEC&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=CYLINDER+BLOCK-OIL+PAN)
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 18, 2009, 09:31:19 AM
boostforlife, NEVER run your block vents to the ground.  The block vents are centered on the oil drains from the head, and it takes about two high rpm pulls to dump all your oil onto the ground.

All vents should be baffled, and any block vents should have drain(s) T'd in.  Stock valvecover vent is semiadequately vented inside the valvecover, but unless you PUT a baffle in there's not going to be one so choose (modify) your catchcans wisely.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: imburne on April 18, 2009, 02:59:23 PM
What do you mean by a baffle JD?
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 18, 2009, 04:48:51 PM
Who knows?  I'm pretty baffled by what comes out of my mouth sometimes, too.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: imburne on April 18, 2009, 05:39:27 PM
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bafflecreek.com%2FResources%2Ftrevorsfish1a.jpg&hash=c43b2e35c0236be74531794cbadd3a3297f4df9b)
Baffle Mouth
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: BoostForLife on April 19, 2009, 12:22:10 AM
boostforlife, NEVER run your block vents to the ground.  The block vents are centered on the oil drains from the head, and it takes about two high rpm pulls to dump all your oil onto the ground.

All vents should be baffled, and any block vents should have drain(s) T'd in.  Stock valvecover vent is semiadequately vented inside the valvecover, but unless you PUT a baffle in there's not going to be one so choose (modify) your catchcans wisely.
Thanks for more info. This is what makes me spend all of my free time on RHMT and get info from JD, mostly.


Here's a good DIY on a homemade catchcan. The only problem I see with it is that the pressure has nowhere to, which means he should replace the cap with a filter.
http://www.aaronreedbaker.com/oil.html (http://www.aaronreedbaker.com/oil.html)


Here's an example of the baffle. Pretty much baffle filters out oil from the vapors. That's the whole purpose of the catch can is to catch the oil
Source: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4289230 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4289230)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fjasperintegration.com%2Fcatch-can-baffle-75.jpg&hash=6fbb59d6b9a3b6d1ef5ba8b070b21bced9c4ea42)
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 19, 2009, 06:21:02 AM
So a plug is a baffle?
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: MTZ on April 19, 2009, 10:09:36 AM
Who knows?  I'm pretty baffled by what comes out of my mouth sometimes, too.

this thread is 2 funny
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: jarebear667 on April 19, 2009, 02:15:06 PM
use your turbo inlet as a vacuum source. after the can.... its what i did. everything worked well. except the dirty air it would draw in.. defeating the purpose in a way.

VW bugs (old school ones)have 12 volt vaccum pumps

optimal vacuum should be 12-15 inches of mercury.  

LIST OF CARS WITH PUMPS
http://users.sfo.com/~eagle/figs/vacpump/vac.html (http://users.sfo.com/~eagle/figs/vacpump/vac.html)
http://www.evconvert.com/article/electric-vacuum-pump (http://www.evconvert.com/article/electric-vacuum-pump)

idea on what kinda of volume they can pump i am not sure.

discuss?
 
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 19, 2009, 02:25:19 PM
No vac pump shizzle, please.  That is a form of failure.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: 92CXyD on April 19, 2009, 02:36:17 PM
No vac pump shizzle, please.  That is a form of failure.

How is that when some racecars use them to stabilze ring sealing. (NeckCar ;D)

Plus if you have less mass of air under the pistons you have less hp required. ;D

Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 19, 2009, 07:49:06 PM
Did you read any of the SDRAWEROF vac pump shizzle thread?  Where he touted a pump that couldn't evacuate a toddler's pee hole, with the toddler helping?  Failure.


It's been said for years, but you refuse to listen: slashcut in the exhaust.  Since the era of carbs has died no one understands venturi effect.   >:(
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Conceptz-X on April 19, 2009, 08:23:02 PM
How about http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/97800/10002/-1 (http://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/97800/10002/-1)


I have dry sump shit layin around for my future projects. 

Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: d-rail on April 19, 2009, 10:54:13 PM
I think what I'm going to do is take the black box off, the run a half in nylon line to a steel tube that is slash cut to the exhaust. After reading all the input I believe that'll work best.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: MantisX on April 20, 2009, 10:08:04 AM
Wont a slashcut fail track inspections if the can fills up and it spits oil out the exhaust?
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Robb on April 20, 2009, 10:12:44 AM
Wont a slashcut fail track inspections if the can fills up and it spits oil out the exhaust?


If your engine is in semi-decent shape you wont fill the catch can in the amount of time it would take to get the car thru inspection...
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: d-rail on April 20, 2009, 10:38:05 AM
It'd be alot of oil to fill up my catch can. :noel:
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: patsmx5 on April 20, 2009, 10:44:09 AM
I gotta do some more vents and shit one day. I will say it's important that your catchcan isn't too restrictive, else it will cause too much backpressure and it will accumulate with oil quicker.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: MantisX on April 20, 2009, 10:55:58 AM
Wont a slashcut fail track inspections if the can fills up and it spits oil out the exhaust?


If your engine is in semi-decent shape you wont fill the catch can in the amount of time it would take to get the car thru inspection...

Cool so just drain it after each run for good measure. Im going to talk with my exhaust guy and give this a go. I guess if I hate it I can just hack it off and seal up the hole.

MantisX
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: jarebear667 on April 20, 2009, 11:08:36 AM
has to be a 45 degree angle (or so) i believe into the exhaust with the tube having an angle cut on it
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: turbob16hatch on April 20, 2009, 02:03:20 PM
i'm guessing you angle the slash towards the outlet on the exhaust?
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: onlyflash944 on April 20, 2009, 02:20:35 PM
the angle points down stream


                          \  \               
----------------------\  \--------------

---------------------> exhaust flow

-----------------------------------------
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: patsmx5 on April 20, 2009, 02:23:30 PM
the angle points down stream


                     \  \
----------------------\  \--------------

---------------------> exhaust flow

-----------------------------------------


             \    \
              \    \
...............\    \..................
                \    \
                 \
                  \___\

------------------>




...........................................
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: onlyflash944 on April 20, 2009, 02:35:48 PM
yes, you want the cut to extend into the exhaust flow, not end even with the exhaust pipe, i tried to show that but it is keyboard paint so deal with it
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 20, 2009, 05:49:12 PM
Wont a slashcut fail track inspections if the can fills up and it spits oil out the exhaust?


If your engine is in semi-decent shape you wont fill the catch can in the amount of time it would take to get the car thru inspection...

Cool so just drain it after each run for good measure. Im going to talk with my exhaust guy and give this a go. I guess if I hate it I can just hack it off and seal up the hole.

NO.  You guys are missing the point of how a catchcan should be set up.

The catchcan should ALWAYS be drained back into the block, nothing manual, something it does by design - look at the Endyn breather install instructions.  If that setup fills up with oil you have some very real problems, and would be spitting more than oil on the track with or without a slashcut.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Conceptz-X on April 21, 2009, 09:06:59 PM
Basic Diagram of a Self-Maintaining catch can
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 22, 2009, 02:39:28 AM
If the line goes below the oil level, and you have blowby issues, oil will go everywhere.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: ifly87 on April 22, 2009, 03:31:13 AM
I used to mess around with that pre turbo intake and all those check valves and bullshit, engines always smoked, even after fresh rebuilds. Now I think the best way to do it is open up those holes in the back, open up another 2 in the v/c and run them to a vented catchcan wich is higher than the 2 on the back of the block so oil can run back in there if it has to.
Title: Re: Crank case pressure
Post by: Conceptz-X on April 22, 2009, 07:33:25 PM
If the line goes below the oil level, and you have blowby issues, oil will go everywhere.

Yes, I should have labeled it as drain to crankcase.