:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: skaterdudz02 on May 03, 2012, 09:34:36 PM
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So I don't post much around here, but this place is where all my boost addictions first began.
Some of you guys may remember me from the old HMT website. I've been around this site now for about 7 years so hmmm...here's what I've been working with.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2F338473_10150665766987959_757487958_11206798_1908498284_o.jpg&hash=7bad5dd065c95f8e73dd7dd66ba93774b2210ab8)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FDSC01043.jpg&hash=c0f4df6c2772c5dffde90c20debb8f240298bd12)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FDSC01042.jpg&hash=56aa6e6e553078f85d72844942479bad7072d78c)
Progress is moving slowly. I hope to spool these KKK's up to about 10-15lbs. I've seen them go as high as 25 so I think that number will be sufficient. This setup is pretty much an experimental setup to see if twins will work with the CD5 chassis and how it will perform boost vs. rpm since redline is around 6k, I want QUICK spool.
Here's one of my old setup's. All is pretty much the same except opted for a 57 trim turbo instead.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FDSC01753.jpg&hash=94503a65ddf653c2d56fb5e529a57614d011ad2f)
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Was wondering what happened to your ass homo... MORE PICS!!!! NEat.
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With the 12cm HX35 on my slut, spool was very quick, but choked on top, but i was also revving to 8k
Looks good, post more pics!
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Most recent setup here. .60/.63 turbo.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FEnginepic.png&hash=5590c9bfa4a6538c082dada66beb2ddb7e709f5a)
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I've got my popcorn. Cool shit.
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If you want quick spool, do a sequential compound setup. It builds boost faster than if you had that single small turbo alone, but can make nearly the power of the two combined.
Manifold feeds small turbo's hotside, exducer and WG feed large turbo's hotside. Air filter feeds large turbo's cold side, that compressor's outlet feeds the small turbo's compressor inlet. A rough pairing will be a turbo that would barely fall on it's face up top (by itself), and a 2nd turbo with a compressor that's 1.5-2x the size. Make that turbo's turbine as big as possible.
IIRC FreeEMS Fred has his EMS powering a j-series accord with such a setup, works tits. There is also a DSM that is making 681whp with a big 16g + 60-1 (full T4).
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...but can make nearly the power of the two combined.
The power capacity is limited to the primary turbo's capacity, how quick the system lights is based on the secondary turbo's sizing.
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...but can make nearly the power of the two combined.
The power capacity is limited to the primary turbo's capacity, how quick the system lights is based on the secondary turbo's sizing.
And for those that may get confused the primary is not the turbo bolted on the manifold, it is the larger turbo. ie. exhaust gases pass through the secondary first and then through the primary.
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...but can make nearly the power of the two combined.
The power capacity is limited to the primary turbo's capacity, how quick the system lights is based on the secondary turbo's sizing.
And for those that may get confused the primary is not the turbo bolted on the manifold, it is the larger turbo. ie. exhaust gases pass through the secondary first and then through the primary.
Yes compressor stages are based on just that the compressor.
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(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fls1tech.com%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2Fforced-induction%2F59206d1143137814-sequential-twin-turbo-idea-open_sequentiel_small.jpg&hash=6c06c44ef2875d936bdf899aefbc0bebd2b54dee)
minus check valved leg? extra wg and boost controller for the check valve stage.
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I don't understand the need for the extra complication though, in a sequential setup both exhaust and wg from the secondary feed into the primary's turbine anyway? If wg is sized appropriately there shouldn't be a restriction.
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From what I've seen, gasoline eninges use compound seq turbos a bit differently. Diesels try to get the extra boost, gasoline want the extra flow by using a larger primary. What I should have said with the max flow deal is the larger turbo makes more than it normally would since you can use such a large turbine. That DSM guy said he was looking for the largest T4 turbine he could find.
That diagram is spot on, minus the check valve. I recall someone trying that on a home made setup, and it usually stuck closed. Since you're dealing with compressed air through the small turbo, you can basicly pass much more air through it when the large turbo is at 1 Bar of boost.
The key on a gasoline engine is to keep restriction down. Diesels are okay since they are used to high backpressure (drive pressure). THe thing about the WG sizing is that it should be sized for very low boost, since there won't me as high a pressure drop, and therefore it doesn't want to move as much air.
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interesting setup, like the posted chart. dont think ive seen this type of twin turbo setup on a honda before.
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I should do it with my 14b and a Holset or maybe something smaller.. rhb5
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interesting setup, like the posted chart. dont think ive seen this type of twin turbo setup on a honda before.
Stopping being a post whore nigger, and go do an intro post.
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http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79898 (http://www.competitiondiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79898)
bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Do like
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I've made some more progress just haven't had time to get the camera charged up.
Everything is pretty much welded shut, I'm just fabricating the exhaust side now. From the looks of things I'll have enough room to retain my A/C on this project.
Pics tomorrow.
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hurry up :noel:
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still waiting
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Two words:
NOT HAPPY.
May have to cut my 2 to 1 collector off and re-fab that area again. I bent it too much. Causing the rest of the bends to not line up at the turbo outlets. See pics.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120525_184458.png&hash=231843958860e7f452f0da3cb6ae1f9506b5cf10)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120525_184450.png&hash=3ba20e1a043b2ca8ba076600afc50722ef1eee3a)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120525_184439.png&hash=ab838df771dd5215e1e5af527cf5c5ea835ea1cb)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120525_184549.png&hash=f099df56d056899c3cb0d43f810c4340e3a01971)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120525_184601.png&hash=d9d69bbba9803ce329e57d0f20a7e63d43977267)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120525_184514.png&hash=c56cc26f12c767f34c4460fd3d4fe1628f78a4ae)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120525_184612.png&hash=845379abfef1ef0e4e2cf04e11a1288a42f56f46)
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Do I see turbos welded directly to the manifold? That's pimp :noel:
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oh my fuck.
SOOOOO much Mig madness. I likeeeee it O0
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That is going to sound wicked. This will be cool.
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Haven't much time to get this thing rolling in the shop. We've been busy with crap. I've been contemplating just running two separate exhausts and looping it further back by the axles or so...
Should have some work done by next week.
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ROUND 2:
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120628_181437.png&hash=e7ec84a461ff86efbcadd32c5b00c1fafe99d92f)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi78.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fj91%2Fskaterdudz02%2FIMG_20120628_181533.png&hash=8eac7e7cf4a0f568083a94ee1eff0c88cf6481ac)
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Merging under the motor makes more sense anyways. It's all straight, and you get a bit more room in the exhaust. I'd recommend cutting it where the tape is and putting flanges there. That would be a bitch to stuff into a car as one rigid piece from the head to the cat.
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Merging under the motor makes more sense anyways. It's all straight, and you get a bit more room in the exhaust. I'd recommend cutting it where the tape is and putting flanges there. That would be a bitch to stuff into a car as one rigid piece from the head to the cat.
Totally what the plan is. I feel this way will work out much better.
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If you want quick spool, do a sequential compound setup. It builds boost faster than if you had that single small turbo alone, but can make nearly the power of the two combined.
Manifold feeds small turbo's hotside, exducer and WG feed large turbo's hotside. Air filter feeds large turbo's cold side, that compressor's outlet feeds the small turbo's compressor inlet. A rough pairing will be a turbo that would barely fall on it's face up top (by itself), and a 2nd turbo with a compressor that's 1.5-2x the size. Make that turbo's turbine as big as possible.
IIRC FreeEMS Fred has his EMS powering a j-series accord with such a setup, works tits. There is also a DSM that is making 681whp with a big 16g + 60-1 (full T4).
alright, I'm thinking to do this on my h22 lude with a 16g from a subbie and an hx40. I'm wondering if that 16g is too small, or if it doesn't matter that much?
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insane. i love it!
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IIRC the large turbo should be 1.5-2x larger than the small. Any smaller or larger and you are aren't going to help a gasoline engine.
The hx40 is around 62 lb/min, and 16g's range from 33-37+ lb/min. I think it would be a good combo. Just make sure you use a large hx40 turbine housing if spool isn't your 1st concern. It needs to be sized/flow like the engine is putting out exhaust volume from an NA motor (4.4L instead of a 2.2L).
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Thanks, that's great info. I read a good thread on it on Dsmtuners and others, but hadn't found much clarity regarding turbines sizing.
I'm starting fabbing this weekend, while I wait for gaskets I need for the h22 build. The Holset has a 16cm turbine, not the biggest one out there but not the smallest either. So I'll run it as is now, I really look forward to the spool. I'm sure the top end won't be a concern.
Thanks again, and sorry for the threadjack guys.
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Thanks, that's great info. I read a good thread on it on Dsmtuners and others, but hadn't found much clarity regarding turbines sizing.
I'm starting fabbing this weekend, while I wait for gaskets I need for the h22 build. The Holset has a 16cm turbine, not the biggest one out there but not the smallest either. So I'll run it as is now, I really look forward to the spool. I'm sure the top end won't be a concern.
Thanks again, and sorry for the threadjack guys.
I have my He351ve vgt to largest A/R with twincharge setup, it does make difference when sizing properly. :noel:
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What I've seen from sizing turbines: Size the small turbo's turbine for a "normal" street car with that motor size. Size the large turbo's turbine for max power with the compressor it's mated to.
When the 16g is spooled up to say 15psi, the 2.2L engine will be flowing more than a 4.0L's worth of exhaust volume through the big turbo. WHILE the 16g is spooling up, the big turbo will be adding some boost to it's inlet, so it will spool up even faster than a 16g alone.
Best way to understand this is to look at the diesel truck "sequential upgrade" kits and their dynos. They use the stock manifold and turbo, then add a huge turbo after that. It spools up faster than stock (the dyno shows power coming earlier) and has much more power everywhere.
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those fucking k03's are going to spool at like 1800 rpm
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those fucking k03's are going to spool at like 1800 rpm
and with 2 they'll pull pretty decent and shit out at 6500.
Should feel god
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those fucking k03's are going to spool at like 1800 rpm
and with 2 they'll pull pretty decent and shit out at 6500.
Should feel god
Yeah, I ran the numbers on an F22/23 and K03 setup a while back after I picked one up for stupidly cheap. One turbo would get full boost at about 1000rpm, but fall on its face above 4500-5000 rpm. For shits I just added a second one in the squirrel turbo calculator, and the maps actually looked really good.
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Your general lack of not giving a fuck is pretty beast. Pimp setup. Never have to worry about blowing out turbo gaskets again, no stupid clamps to worry about. Less is more with twice the turbo. Are you going to bridge your hot pipes too or just run 2 in, 1 out intercooler?