:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: fuse on April 28, 2009, 08:08:50 PM
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Ok I am dicking with a ls now. I have a to pick from b18a cams, b18b cams and b20 cams (I am a pack rat). This is a n/a build on a buget. I also have b20 springs and .060 shims. I want more mid to top end on this build.
My question is what cams should I use and what rpm should I set my rev limit? What have U all reved a b18b safely too?
The b18b and b20 have about the same lift but the b20s look to have more duration. The b20 springs have less miles (30K) then the b18b and measure a bit longer.
Thanks glad I found the real hmt.
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i have my dirty b20 (in in the list of build threads) revving to 6k. My brother is currently using the car and he gets kind of crazy with it but i had to limit his shit...
i usually have it set to approx 7200
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I was wanting to use b20 cams and push it to 8000 8500 is this a bad idea? LOL. What will brake first?
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I was wanting to use b20 cams and push it to 8000 8500 is this a bad idea? LOL. What will brake first?
youre not going to make any power at the point so why try?
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I was wanting to use b20 cams and push it to 8000 8500 is this a bad idea? LOL. What will brake first?
You can rev it all you want, but you'll have no power up there and taking the motor past the limit of it's desing. Have chris port the shit out of your head/manifold/buy his throttle body, upgrade to at least vtec series springs for higher RPMs.
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Head is ported was going to retro fit a bigger tb. K maybe I will just stick to a 7500 just a bit over.
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Without aftermarket cams, you won't make any power. It will feel like it fell on it's face. I had a chipped ecu with my ls swap, no rev limiter, there was nothing when I revved it to 7500. No power up there.
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I was wanting to use b20 cams and push it to 8000 8500 is this a bad idea? LOL. What will brake first?
You can rev it all you want, but you'll have no power up there and taking the motor past the limit of it's desing. Have chris port the shit out of your head/manifold/buy his throttle body, upgrade to at least vtec series springs for higher RPMs.
What Vtec springs can you use in a LS head ???
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Max power and torque are at about 6300rpm, why do you want to rev it to 8000? Buy aftermarket cam and some good spring to keep your part in place. Otherwise 7000-7200 max.
N/A all is worthless anyway.
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Forget the cams for now. Think pistons!
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yes everyone is right so far.
i had a beat ls and did the how high does this go test(chipped ecu w/ unknown chip) well i made it to about 8500 and it wouldn't go any higher not rev limit just stopped revving.
So yeah power drops off fast.
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send stock cams to delta for a regrind and be done with it
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stock ls cams
stock manifold
stock throttle body
and you want to call it an all motor build. Its more like a stock motor.
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USDM B18A1 (’90-’93) Stock 270°/276° 186°/190° .392"/.380" 9.95/9.65
USDM B18B1 (’94-’00) Stock 274°/278° 183°/184° .393"/.380" 9.98/9.65
USDM B20B (’97-’98) Stock 278°/276° 190°/194° .397"/.382" 10.08/9.70
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stock ls cams
stock manifold
stock throttle body
and you want to call it an all motor build. Its more like a stock motor.
LOL
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USDM B18A1 (’90-’93) Stock 270°/276° 186°/190° .392"/.380" 9.95/9.65
USDM B18B1 (’94-’00) Stock 274°/278° 183°/184° .393"/.380" 9.98/9.65
USDM B20B (’97-’98) Stock 278°/276° 190°/194° .397"/.382" 10.08/9.70
Thanks that is what I am looking for so b20 a bit better but not much. Ok. How much to re grind.
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call and find out ain't gonna do all the work for ya
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All you need to know about budget LS builds:
- LS cams suck, run the B20s, but only if they are free. The gain in performance (over anything but autotragic cams) is not significant. Crower 404s are your friend, do not go any smaller it's pointless either NA or boosted and wastes your money on a worthless cam. I unofficially like the Brian Crower stage 3 (longer duration, less lift than 404), it will become official after I strap this car to the dyno and obtain clarification.
- Avoid 90-91 LS "small port" heads. They fucking suck.
- If you have $3, get a set of B20A/B21A intake valves (33mm) and have the seats in your head replaced to suit them. Poor man's P8R. If you have more than $3 just buy Ferrea, but this is RHMT bitch you can barely afford $3. Also, B20A/B21A inner valvesprings are your friends with 33mm intakes, while still on stock cams.
- LS rockers don't like to rev, mkay? If the rocker pops out while adjusting valves, replace it and it's ball seat that screws into the head with one that doesn't. Some people get away with 8500 rpms but I cut them off at 8K unless the owner understands the risk. Usually a rocker pops off and you just reassemble, sometimes it gets in somewhere important and shit gets itself fucked.
send stock cams to delta for a regrind and be done with it
I wasn't impressed by their 272s. 159 whp 143 wtq on a stock B20Z with Skank9 IM and big tube header, the flow up top just fell off where even wussy 402s don't. I never dyno'd the car (or any other B20B/Z) on stock cams so maybe there's a nice bump in midrange which makes for a lot of driveability... which you get out of a bigger cam, anyway, with how badly stock cams suck.
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Hybrid site still has a bunch of dyno's with stock b20b's/z's but the motors all got nice headers,bored throttle bodies etc but all on stock cams
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orly?
Time to look that shit up, I'm curious.
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http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/b20/b20dyno.html#dyno1 (http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/b20/b20dyno.html#dyno1)
amazing hybrid honda still is a top search on search engines even though the site has been dead for 5+ years
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Thanks I will see what I can fine and ya the b20 cams are free. Yes I am a broke ass. lol Don’t like the price of regrinds (200$+).
B20a b21a cams will not fit will thy? I may have my hands on a b21 head free. I can only nab the springs and valves? Head looks way different.
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Thanks I will see what I can fine and ya the b20 cams are free. Yes I am a broke ass. lol Don’t like the price of regrinds (200$+).
B20a b21a cams will not fit will thy? I may have my hands on a b21 head free. I can only nab the springs and valves? Head looks way different.
The valve stem OD, and valve overall lengths, are identical. You really need a bigger seat installed... you might find a machinist who'll thin the existing seat (make it's ID bigger) for more flow, but if it gets too thin the seat drops which is basically that same as a valve dropping. Your perfectly good shit goes bye bye.
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200 for regrinds is very cheap delta is the cheapest in the country
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i paid 319 for my brian crower stg 2 turbo shits
lets face it 319 aint shit
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i paid 319 for my brian crower stg 2 turbo shits
lets face it 319 aint shit
No kidding
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LOL Joseph funny story here um and a true story. I tuned a guys b20 swapped with turbo da integra car ran great drove smooth real nice car I enjoyed tuning it.
He calls me to come over a month or so later and he's got a 90 LS head swapped onto it said he heard somewhere ls heads are better ::) Gotta love people sometimes.
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Well 99 percent of b20b's came with p75 ls heads. p8r heads are pretty damn rare and I have one Im keeping just in case I ever get the itch for a b20 non vtec build.
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go ahead and sell me that p8r head chris.. cash in hand
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go ahead and sell me that p8r head chris.. cash in hand
shoot me an offer
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$20 and 2 throttle bodies?
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$20 and 2 throttle bodies?
200 and 2 throttle bodies sold
I have been selling them on ebay for 300 shipped
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Oh and trust me they are rare and the importers know they double check the heads for the p8r stamp.
Only came on b20's for 2 years also.
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JD, I looked into the whole b21 intake valve thing, yes the valves can be had for cheap, but to replace the seats and get them cut will cost more than a p8r head or a vtec head for that matter. Atleast for me, i was quoted over 400 from a few shops. Unless you can get away with using stock seats and a one angle valve job
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One angle valve job, that's cute.
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how does everyone else do it and don't stock hondas have one angle valve seats?
believe me if i find a way to do it for under 200 im all about it
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i think there 3 way correct me if i'm wrong
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i think there 3 way correct me if i'm wrong
That's the only way to center the "one" angle where you want it on the valve's seat, yup.