:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: crxvtec91 on March 21, 2013, 10:57:21 AM
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Just throwing some ideas around, I know in stock forum the honda auto trans are not that good. I was thinking if you could control the the pressure put on the clutches then you could get it to hold more power. My question is this, has anyone seen or done anything like this to a honda trans?
I saw a number of post where some of the dsm 4wd guys used to think those where the worst trans ever until they started cranking the line pressure then they stated to hold some real power.
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Check with Sewell, I remember talking to him about the use of atuomatics to get consistent 1/4 mile time, like the big boys. (about 3yrs ago.)
:noel:
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I've only heard rumors of people modding Honda autos. Most auto issues on any car are from heat (breaking down the fluid), holding power is from pressure. If the clutch packs slip, they overheat the fluid. I'm sure you could find someone who could modify them for more pressure. Then rig some method to move & cool the fluid better than stock and you'd be golden. A lot of the Dodge guys use autos with their 2.2/2.5 common blocks to get very low times.
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I looked into it a little 4-5 years ago. I remember finding performance clutches and stuff. Better clutches, more pressure and crazy cooling might be the ticket. I always wanted to drag with an auto
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I looked into it a little 4-5 years ago. I remember finding performance clutches and stuff. Better clutches, more pressure and crazy cooling might be the ticket. I always wanted to drag with an auto
+1, I'm gettin' old :noel:
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I want to think the same company had higher stall converters, but I'm with you Russ, this old brain doesn't store much that isn't used often anymore. Lol
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I want to think the same company had higher stall converters, but I'm with you Russ, this old brain doesn't store much that isn't used often anymore. Lol
From looking around I should be able to get even stock stuff to hold power. The issue is I have zero experience with anything auto much less moding one.
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Sounds like you have more experience than I do. Lol. I have done flushes, swaps, and changed filters. That's about the extent of my knowledge.
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TCI and Level10 use to sell parts for Honda auto trannies.... i know TCI had converters maybe kits, and Level10 had full rebuild services.
i have a friend with a auto tranny DSM...her car should be fast this year. 12.1 on shakedown pass with 16g at low boost.
pretty sure they just give these trannys away, and cars go for stupid cheap cuz they are autos. im pretty sure most hondas are like that too. unless its an accord where people want them...
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I guess you would have to use obd0 trannys though to avoid the controller. Unless someone figures out how to tune it
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The pre-97 controller for most Civic/Integra/Accord is "flipping switches" on/off signals to different solenoids to command gear changes as well as TCC application. It isn't until the later cars that you get PWM line pressure control that is "sophisticated."
You can Tarduino the earlier stuff up. Hell, you can Tarduino the later stuff up. MickeySquirt will control a 4L60E/4L80E including the PWM TCC in the 95+ gearboxes and PWM line pressure control... you'll have to have a bit of a brain but it can be ported over.
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Since we are sorta on the topic, any possibility of converting a99 auto crv to obd1 and staying auto? Also with chipping involved.
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Since we are sorta on the topic, any possibility of converting a99 auto crv to obd1 and staying auto? Also with chipping involved.
What JD says applies, you'll need something to control OBD2 trans with PWM and just a standard chipped ECU and conversion harness to control the engine.
If you can convert the obd2 auto trans to obd1 stuff (solenoid swap maybe?), just use an Auto OBD1 Bseries ecu.
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Its information for failboats, but this could be relevant:
http://www.accordinglydone.com/forum/showthread.php?12424-Auto-OBD2-gt-OBD1-conversion-for-Accords-COMPLETE (http://www.accordinglydone.com/forum/showthread.php?12424-Auto-OBD2-gt-OBD1-conversion-for-Accords-COMPLETE)
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Hit me up. I looked at doing it out the gate to the accord. Theres a lot more available to to the DSM fags, but there is stuff available to HELP hondas... But no cure..
There used to be a local 10 second civic running a honda auto round here ;)
I looked into it ALOT to maker a Lude tranny work years ago.
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Aside from running a decent fluid with less friction modifiers than the honda stuff, and keeping the trans cool, there's not a whole ton that can be done without a rebuild as far as I can tell (since the line pressure seems to be set within the valve body). If I remember correctly, the kickdown lever has a bit of say with regards to line pressure, but that's about it.
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Oh, no, we have to modify line pressure. Well, gosh, I guess it can't be done.
OK
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Coming from a guy that has never gone deeper into an auto tranny than pulling the pan, I can't imagine it's that difficult to shim a spring or something to bump pressure. It might be tedious, but I'm sure not difficult.
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Some stuff its retardedly simple. The Aisin-Warner whore of the 90s used in Supra, IS300, Volvo RWD, Cherokees is super easy to up pressure and hold 500... IDK about in a heavy ass XJ, but at 2/3rds that a Jeep becomes a death trap.
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Line pressure can be manipulated, and frictions are (were) available...
Cant remember the name of the company... But I had talked to someone about making some H series specific stuff. They were into it and almost shrugged it off as not being hard to do at all.... This was 5 years ago though (Was a DSM parts produccer... Ross may remember)... However, the GEARS and hard parts are still susceptible to the same material limitations as any manual components... And theres a problem with that.
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Raybestos, fat man.
And the idea is that the gears and hard parts are not susceptible to the same forces and failures as the manual transmissions as there is a converter full of fluid decoupling the gears from the jackhammet operation of an inline 4. Fuck you.
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Oh, no, we have to modify line pressure. Well, gosh, I guess it can't be done.
OK
Learn me. Without tearing into the trans, can I pretend I have a DSM and force the linear solenoid to send me full line pressure with a trip to radioshack?
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Raybestos, fat man.
And the idea is that the gears and hard parts are not susceptible to the same forces and failures as the manual transmissions as there is a converter full of fluid decoupling the gears from the jackhammet operation of an inline 4. Fuck you.
Negative on the raybestos ten rabbits running backwards
Im fully aware of the IDEA, but also aware of REALITY. I wanted to put an auto in this turd from jump, but didnt understand that there just wasnt a good solution, then painfully found out theres not a solid manual solution either (or at least as robust as V8 garbage options)
Hard parts, polanetarys, gears themselves... Still prone to break, Pretty sure the guys that I talked to know more than you and me. Yup. Positive.
And yes, FUCK YOU
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Oh, no, we have to modify line pressure. Well, gosh, I guess it can't be done.
OK
Learn me. Without tearing into the trans, can I pretend I have a DSM and force the linear solenoid to send me full line pressure with a trip to radioshack?
Is that a joke? the "blue wire mod" is older than I am.
And what bigv said. You could spend $1000's on having a converter cut, the most expensive clutches and steels and even if they made an aftermarket valvebody(manual or not.) The way the shafts are set up in honda coupled with little wanna be planetaries..you'd be replacing hard parts every week. shit I at least pull one Odyssey or pilot a week, and its always problems stemming from warped cases and valvebodys, complete with blown up converters and melted together hard parts..thats at 200-300ish factory hp.
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I at least pull one Odyssey or pilot a week, and its always problems stemming from warped cases and valvebodys, complete with blown up converters and melted together hard parts..thats at 200-300ish factory hp.
Yeah, low fluid pressure allows friction, and things overheat. You are inaware of the high rate of failure of all automatics since women bitching about being able to feel shifts dictated transmission design and programming?
BTW, a handful of people doing closed door research leaves a lot of stones uncovered, Spiker.
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Oh, no, we have to modify line pressure. Well, gosh, I guess it can't be done.
OK
Learn me. Without tearing into the trans, can I pretend I have a DSM and force the linear solenoid to send me full line pressure with a trip to radioshack?
Is that a joke? the "blue wire mod" is older than I am.
I was referencing the blue wire mod, yes. Haven't really seen an equivalent for honda autos, then again I've mainly been looking at F/H series stuff. Haven't looked at my helms manual in a bit.
Not even thinking about crazy power, not shifting like shit and holding low to mid 200whp range and I'd be happy on a daily.
So far surprise surprise, running a fluid with way less friction modifiers and an external cooler makes the things work better.
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Holding a NA build with a 200 shot would fuck up some big power cars in the 1/8th.
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Yeah, low fluid pressure allows friction, and things overheat. You are inaware of the high rate of failure of all automatics since women bitching about being able to feel shifts dictated transmission design and programming?
BTW, a handful of people doing closed door research leaves a lot of stones uncovered, Spiker.
fuckin a..
welcome to the last 7 years of whining, bitching customers. Line pressure and shift firmness on a rebuild is determined by the amount of testosterone a customer possess.
And phate I thought you were asking DSMs..duh. You can probably tinker with the modulator valve on older honda's, It controls hydraulic flow coming from the pump and going to the shift and lock-up solenoids. On (newer)cars with PW- Modulated line pressure its not so easy..Most Pressure control solenoids (PCS or EPC) are adjustable but i've been told by many that playing with the adjustment is playing with fire. similar to trying to tune a car with no sensors to log. Adjusting pressure through the driver in the computer is different..through a tuner or whatever.
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There are no tuner or standalone controllers for these... but there can be.
It would be trivial to log PWM vs load (MAP) and TPS to get a baseline for each era/engine.
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fuckin a..
welcome to the last 7 years of whining, bitching customers. Line pressure and shift firmness on a rebuild is determined by the amount of testosterone a customer possess.
And phate I thought you were asking DSMs..duh. You can probably tinker with the modulator valve on older honda's, It controls hydraulic flow coming from the pump and going to the shift and lock-up solenoids. On (newer)cars with PW- Modulated line pressure its not so easy..Most Pressure control solenoids (PCS or EPC) are adjustable but i've been told by many that playing with the adjustment is playing with fire. similar to trying to tune a car with no sensors to log. Adjusting pressure through the driver in the computer is different..through a tuner or whatever.
From what I've gathered about my particular trans (BOYA), it seems like I've got one of the last versions of honda's more crude automatics. Stock form on honda Z1 fluid they shift slow and awful, and get hot fast, making them even worse. Only external interface its really got are the lockup and shift control solenoids, which as far as I can tell are basically as JD said "flipping switches". Seems like the line pressure control is almost all done internally, but it does increase when the kickdown lever is moved.
I can't imagine the other early-to-mid 90's honda trans working too differently, so on these older trans shift control should be pretty much stupidly easy
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I at least pull one Odyssey or pilot a week, and its always problems stemming from warped cases and valvebodys, complete with blown up converters and melted together hard parts..thats at 200-300ish factory hp.
Yeah, low fluid pressure allows friction, and things overheat. You are inaware of the high rate of failure of all automatics since women bitching about being able to feel shifts dictated transmission design and programming?
BTW, a handful of people doing closed door research leaves a lot of stones uncovered, Spiker.
The "closed door" you speak of isn't a secret, princess
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I wonder what the physical power limit a oem honda gear can hold when not shock by power.
DSM auto trans used to be considered the weakest trans until the clutches and line pressure where used.
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I at least pull one Odyssey or pilot a week, and its always problems stemming from warped cases and valvebodys, complete with blown up converters and melted together hard parts..thats at 200-300ish factory hp.
Yeah, low fluid pressure allows friction, and things overheat. You are inaware of the high rate of failure of all automatics since women bitching about being able to feel shifts dictated transmission design and programming?
BTW, a handful of people doing closed door research leaves a lot of stones uncovered, Spiker.
The "closed door" you speak of isn't a secret, princess
Link please
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My limited auto experience tell me that the gears themselves probably could take decent abuse if you ignore the rest of the parts. Seems like auto shifting would be quite a bit more gentile on them. I don't ever expect to see 8 second auto Hondas though.
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I at least pull one Odyssey or pilot a week, and its always problems stemming from warped cases and valvebodys, complete with blown up converters and melted together hard parts..thats at 200-300ish factory hp.
Yeah, low fluid pressure allows friction, and things overheat. You are inaware of the high rate of failure of all automatics since women bitching about being able to feel shifts dictated transmission design and programming?
BTW, a handful of people doing closed door research leaves a lot of stones uncovered, Spiker.
The "closed door" you speak of isn't a secret, princess
Link please
MAke the phone calls and talk to the people yourself. You act like its some secret squirell shit. Its not.. In the enfd for maybe a few hundred, MAYBE 400 hp... You could make due... BUt. As stated... FGor any kind of power to make it therough an auto and it LIVE... YOure running into more problems with hardware than youre addressing. Straight out of some of "those peoples" mouths.
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Right. I got where I am by strongly suspecting everyone else before me got it wrong. When the knowledge is "common" but not disseminated, my bullshit meter goes off.
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reported
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I recall talking to DasPoop about his 240 project (sold) and how his previous auto was all roided up just by changing the pressures & such. He had it manually shifting w/o bleeding pressure and said it caused no appreciable damage/wear.
It would be interesting if he ever had time to get back on here, Trev probably has a lot more small trans knowledge than anyone here.
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He's on FB.