:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: Spanish-rice on May 14, 2009, 11:38:17 AM
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i cant get a set of shotpeened b16 rods for dirty dirty cheap and im wondering what kind of power i can trust them to? im looking at making well over 400 this year and just need peace of mind as this is car will probably see quite a few miles. ill get them for next to free or will it be worth it to just get some eagles or something?
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i cant get a set of shotpeened b16 rods for dirty dirty cheap and im wondering what kind of power i can trust them to? im looking at making well over 400 this year and just need peace of mind as this is car will probably see quite a few miles. ill get them for next to free or will it be worth it to just get some eagles or something?
Rods are super cheap, dont waste your time or money if you are going that big.
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shot peened stock rods can not handle 400hp for very long. :o
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rods are so damn cheap and b16a motors are not
pretty easy answer
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Tunertoys
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thanks guys i kinda figured this but ive never dealt with shot peened rods and if they were a sure thing i figured why not theyre next to free. but i know what im going to do now .
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Rods are so damn cheap and B16 motors are pieces of shit.
Of the 600+ Honda motors I've tuned, B16s are the only sleeves I've cracked and the rate of failure is 50% of the cars that break 280 whp. Factor in how they all leak oil from the front left corner of the headgasket, have no bottom end, and are super small so they have a lot lower knock limit, buying a B18B block just makes sense.
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not if you get a b16 bottom for free along with cheap as shit pistons
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I wouldnt put rods in a B16 at 400whp Stock rods are stronger then you think, and you have to remember ur not going to be making any TQ. How many B-series rods have you seen break due to power ??? Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car but it didnt break.
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I wouldnt put rods in a B16 at 400whp Stock rods are stronger then you think, and you have to remember ur not going to be making any TQ. How many B-series rods have you seen break due to power ??? Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car but it didnt break.
Yer but you would still want to use ARP rod bolts, and for a bit more $ you can get TT or Eagle rods that come with ARP bolts. I wouldnt risk a build because I went cheap on rods IMO.
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I'd run forged rods with OEM rod bolts before I'd run stock rods with ARPs. Factory rod bolts are not weak, you will never see one let go.
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Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car
I wouldnt say my car was pushing that much. 450 maybe? but 500? thems iz ass dyno numbers
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You can make 450 off stock LS cams?
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You can make 450 off stock LS cams?
LOL, or trapping under 120mph??
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I'd run forged rods with OEM rod bolts before I'd run stock rods with ARPs. Factory rod bolts are not weak, you will never see one let go.
you going to tell that to people with ls motors and there pussy rod bolts :?:
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Dude its so much hype about rod bolts on hondas. Like JD said, show me 1 oem rod bolt failure. Ask leed about how well his 450whp stock b18 motor is doing with the stock rod bolts?
I wouldnt say my car was pushing that much. 450 maybe? but 500? thems iz ass dyno numbers
I would say probably closer to 325-350whp
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yeah but are they or are they not smaller on the ls? that wierds me out and for $40-50 why not do it
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and for $40-50 why not do it
Because for another $200 you can have rods & bolts that will handle over 500hp
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kinda a big jump from $50 to $200+
hey i'm not saying it is better to run stock over upgrading to eagle's or w/e.
but for a budget build $50 is cheap peace of mind
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I got you man, Im not trying to be a dick, but for $50 thats all you a re getting is a peace of mind. Its unneeded is all im trying to say.
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Ive seen a stock LS rod bend from a boost spike on a 500whp car
I wouldnt say my car was pushing that much. 450 maybe? but 500? thems iz ass dyno numbers
I wasnt talking about your car :P
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I'd run forged rods with OEM rod bolts before I'd run stock rods with ARPs. Factory rod bolts are not weak, you will never see one let go.
Have you ever seen ARP rod bolts breaK?? Ive never seen ARP rod bolts break or stock rod bolts.
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yeah but are they or are they not smaller on the ls?
What does that do with what they will or won't handle?
Based on the fact you have never seen or heard of a Honda rod bolt letting go, and cannot produce a picture of one that is broken (that wasn't caused without the bottom end siezing up first, in which case your rod is fucked even if the bolt holds, which not even ARPS do), I posit that you have better things to worry about when building an engine. A proper crankcase breather, for example.
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i agree with there being more important things to do before tearing a motor apart to put in arp's.
But you can't say for sure they havn't failed, how do you really know they don't fail. and by fail i don't mean shatter into a bunch of peices.
you going to tell me next that oem bolts don't stretch?
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I know because I go out of my way to look at engines that have come apart in order to identify causes, and design weaknesses. I've taken broken shit to people who know more than i do and have them teach me how to look at the wreckage and make sense of it. Lee Schwartz (pro-stock, stock car, formula atlantic, other), Paul Julius (import machinist, works on Indy Light cars now), Morgan (Morgan and Sons machining, circle track, 10.5 outlaw, builds BRMS' engines and now pretty much everyone in Asheville's since Paul went to the Indy Light gig), and a number of others.
Nope, OEM bolts don't stretch, just like everybody figured out 12 years ago. HT noise says otherwise.
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zc
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all i got to say is that seems far fetched to say they don't stretch when making considerable hp.
but then again this info is coming from the guy who said mini-rams boost creep :-*
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alright another question then. how much power would you assume a stock internal ls vtec could hold?
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how good iis the tune?
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zc
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i get my car dyno tuned every spring and its usally spot on. i stay just below 12:1 in the high R's in boost and dont see any spikes with my wideband. idk how to really judge tune quality other than saying its street driven and ive never gotten less than 35mpg highway on E85 at my full power level. seems good to me but i guess i cant compare it to a known GREAT tune
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well its not a base map. I know guys that thing a basemap is a tune.
I dont know if leed is still running his stock b18, but I think he was putting somewhere in the range of 450+ on stock internals. But its a top notch tune!
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alright another question then. how much power would you assume a stock internal ls vtec could hold?
ls vtec what?
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ls vtec what?
im just thinking if that bottom end is already done we could put it together with the ls bottom end instead but that raelly doesnt make sense with a brand new built head on a bottom end that im nervous about reving past 7
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See what did i tell you about thinking. haha ;D
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all i got to say is that seems far fetched to say they don't stretch when making considerable hp.
but then again this info is coming from the guy who said mini-rams boost creep :-*
Horsepower is a compressive load and has nothing to do with tensile loading, which is the only load the rod bolt recieves.
I said piss poor wastegate angles cause boost creep. Have you read Maximum Boost, or any other basic primer on the subject?
I'm sick of you arguing with everything I say not because you disagree on some factual, physical, theoretical, or first hand experience level but because you don't like me. Either emit some tech from your cumtrap or you're gone from this site. I can make that happen real quick, asshole.
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take a joke buddy
and i was discussing the topic, i'm not a motor guru nor do i say i am, i was simply thinking out loud.
and i would say you need to chill on the defensive reading.
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zc
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take a joke buddy
and i was discussing the topic, i'm not a motor guru nor do i say i am, i was simply thinking out loud.
and i would say you need to chill on the defensive reading.
And I get this in my PMs:
also you have yet to say you were wrong on that mini-ram that i built. so don't yell at me when your the hypycrit.
Fuck you, dude. You built a manifold with a wastegate exit that required the exhaust gasses to turn tighter than 90 degrees, I pointed it out and that it was a problem at low boost, and when it was pointed out the car had a 15 psi wastegate and was going to be a track vehicle I said oh that's okay then it'd work fine for that. AND THEN YOU FLEW ALL OVER ME ABOUT IT LIKE I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT DESPITE DEALING WITH BAD DESIGNS FOR A LIVING. Do you know what inertia is? You dont blow air in one direction and have it magically do u-turns because it wants to take a scenic route. Divergent and convergent merge collectors are used for a reason.
How about you do two things for me?
1) Open up Maximum Boost and look at the pretty picture of the shallow angle divergent wastegate exit on the 25 year old F1 car.
2) Stop arguing with everything I say, in multiple threads, on a non-factual non-logical level.
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wasn't arguing you stupid fucking O0
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zc
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Yeah, I noticed. What you are is an idiot who can't grasp simple concepts.
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all i got to say is that seems far fetched to say they don't stretch when making considerable hp.
but then again this info is coming from the guy who said mini-rams boost creep :-*
Your a fucking idiot arent you?
HP has absolutely nothing to do with the tensile strength of a rod bolt. Piston speed and mass are the limitations of the rod bolts. When a piston/rod is on the power stroke, its forcing the rod down on the crank, the bearing shell and oil wedge take the beating, not the rod bolt. Power has little to do with it.
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zc
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250HP ALLMOTOR h22 Crx Testrun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg0CxAAeqig#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
stock rod bolts in h22's like 9600 rev limiter
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:o
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i think the same people who came up with the idea that rods bolts need to be changed decided block guards were a good idea.
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ok i will put this disclaimer on my question so JD shuts the fuck up.
why would they put "upgraded" hardwhere on eagle's if it was not needed?
there JD i asked a question :'(
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ill counter your question with a question. have you ever seen the "non upgraded" hardware on eagle fail?
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Yeah, I noticed. What you are is an idiot who can't grasp simple concepts.
Don't you have enought powa to ban him already? JD always say the truth. And even when its not the truth its never wrong.
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ill counter your question with a question. have you ever seen the "non upgraded" hardware on eagle fail?
No idea
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then they obviosuly do it so people like you who actually think they would sell hardware thats too weak and make them feel like they are getting something extra in the deal.
ive yet to hear of a sinlge rod bolt failure other then some honda tech faggots who heard someone that knew someone that had them fail, meaning the person was a retard and fucked something up and blamed it on that.
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ok i will put this disclaimer on my question so JD shuts the fuck up.
why would they put "upgraded" hardwhere on eagle's if it was not needed?
there JD i asked a question :'(
You remember the early Eagles that had the bad rep for having a small rod bolt? The ones Jojo Callos made 1200 whp with on a bet, and then ran that engine for a season with no failures? Why did they upgrade that hardware since it's obviously not needed?
The answer is simple, they "upgrade" hardware to satisfy no nothing faggots who talk about shit they don't understand, and can't understand even after it's been explained to them 3-4 times.
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Oc
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The answer is simple, they "upgrade" hardware to satisfy no nothing faggots who talk about shit they don't understand, and can't understand even after it's been explained to them 3-4 times.
The so called upgrade also in some cases increases rotating mass if the boss area of the rod is enlarged to handle the larger fastener. (usually you try to reduce it) Look at some of the shit the cup cars are running now. 6mm titanium valves, 20mm wrist pins, Honda big end rod dia., etc. Bigger isn't always better, afterall isn't that now why imports get some respect.
Also, Shot-peening does not increase the strength of a rod or any other component, it merely relieves surface stresses, to help reduce the chance of a fracture to form.
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ok i will put this disclaimer on my question so JD shuts the fuck up.
why would they put "upgraded" hardwhere on eagle's if it was not needed?
there JD i asked a question :'(
You remember the early Eagles that had the bad rep for having a small rod bolt? The ones Jojo Callos made 1200 whp with on a bet, and then ran that engine for a season with no failures? Why did they upgrade that hardware since it's obviously not needed?
The answer is simple, they "upgrade" hardware to satisfy no nothing faggots who talk about shit they don't understand, and can't understand even after it's been explained to them 3-4 times.
JD your wrong, these fucktarts do understand; the word "UPGRADE" so clearly it has to be better for a reason :P
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the word "UPGRADE" so clearly it time for a music video
Beyonce Commercial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Jubz1Ini-o#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
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(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi282.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk277%2Fmakadocious88%2FTupac.jpg&hash=9adbf76d0dd3f9aa97fb8bf78d870d6b6e8c7aa2)
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jdm UPGRADED always justifies it self so stop arguing jd.
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Don't ban anybody. Noobs won't learn anything if ya ban em everytime they repeat some honda tech bullshit.
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The only thing he has going for him is his car doesn't have a blue dash, and he didn't get arrested for losing a streetrace to a slow faggot literbike.
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I've lurked this bitch for a long time, and I ain't trying to hang on anyone's nuts, but JD (the grand wizard of the intronets, child porn, and your moms vag) said fix your shitty manifold, and quit bitching bout fucking bolts. I wouldn't trust shot peened rods to run in a stock motor, since they sell b16 rods at P.F. Chang's.