:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: AbaZ on May 18, 2009, 12:25:06 AM
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This maybe a real stupid question, but maybe someone knows. Our home doesnt have central heat, and Im not dropping thousands of dollars on some fancy unit. But I'm not gonna get one of those 99 dollar units and stick it off the side of my window either. it looks trashy, and my wife thinks someone will break in. I was wondering if I could put the thing in my crawlspace and just rig up some vents to come directly into our bedroom. The crawlspace is very dry and somewhat ventilated? Any thoughts on a low budget ac setup?
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Thats a pretty good idea. Score a window mount from Costco for about $280. The one I use keeps my place nice and cool on hot days (1000sq-ft).
Window mount units make me feel at home Spanaway style. :)
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Ceiling air conditioner is the answer i dont think a window ac would have enough fan power to travel through a vent for 2 long
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There are some AC that doesnt need to be mounted in a window. They run a tube outside (from a window, hole or whatever) and you can move the unit inside the house. You may want to look this option. They are usually more expensive tho... You still have the problem of distance, but it doesnt looks trashy ;)
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shit i bought a window a/c and i don't have a window in my room so i cut a fucking hole in the wall and stuck it in there :somb:
Haha, that's what me and my dad did.
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this should keep ya cool and you can score a better price just the first one i found
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_04210002000P?vName=Appliances&cName=Air+Conditioners%2C+Fans+%26+Heaters&keyword=air+conditioner (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_04210002000P?vName=Appliances&cName=Air+Conditioners%2C+Fans+%26+Heaters&keyword=air+conditioner)
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I'm an hvac tech and a licensed contractor. I don't like window units either but whenever I've had to install one for a customer I cover the rest of the window with sheet metal. I also screw the sheet metal to the unit.
The window unit needs to be on the side of the house were it can get some ventilation and expel the heat that it's removing from your house. If you put it in the attic were it's 150 degrees the pressures will go way up and so will your electric bill.
The idea about installing central air yourself is full of fail. Only licensed contractor are supposed to be able to buy complete a/c units (for good reasons) at least in my state (Arizona).
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Cool man, sound good if your wife's cousin can help you out. I always try to steer home owners toured having a licensed contractor do the work and not some hack off craigslist.
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Uh, HVAC work isn't difficult.
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mike you live in the desert, why are thinking about an ac when you can get a cheap ass swamp cooler. your in the perfect place for one, the dryer the outside air the cooler the swap cooler will cool the house. hell you could probably make one; box fan, cotton towel, watering can- done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaporative_cooler)
At 32°C (90°F) and 15% relative humidity, air may be cooled to nearly 16°C (60°F).
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There are some AC that doesnt need to be mounted in a window. They run a tube outside (from a window, hole or whatever) and you can move the unit inside the house. You may want to look this option. They are usually more expensive tho... You still have the problem of distance, but it doesnt looks trashy ;)
+1
Secure and efficient
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The 2 biggest issues i see are:
1) Venting the hot air, out of the crawl space, it makes the unit a lot more efficient if you can do this, if not it will still work, but will have to work a lot harder, and you wont get as much cooling. Typically you like to see ~25-30F delta T across the evaporator.
2) There isn't much of a fan in most of the window units I have seen, so getting it to push up any length of ducting could be an issue. The easy way to overcome this obviously is add a helper fan some where in the ducting.
3) I know I said 2, but the other thing I would do, if you can't have the hot exhaust ducted outside, is to have the intake air, being brought in from the house, that way as it cools off the house it also draws in cooler air. Kinda like using "MAX AC" in a car.
I am not a licensed HVAC contractor, but I am involved with AC for a living. The company I work for specializes in off road AC (excavators, dozers, mining haul trucks ect... I am involved with on a day to day basis prototyping mining ac units that are rated and tested to keep operators cool in 55C (131F) temps. Our copper/copper evap cores will do a 50F delta T.
Swamp coolers are great, easy to run, cheap to maintain (as long as they are made of plastic) The biggest issue is making sure you keep them full of water. We are seeing more and more hiway trucks goto this setup, as well as AG equipment. Offroad stuff, is still too hard on everything and they fail to quick in those areas. On a house where it never moves, That is what I would personally do. Just have a couple big rainwater collector drums, and have that feed a filter and then to the swamp cooler. Throw some fungicide in it and have a nice cool house that is replenished on it's own.
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hmm, well I only would be using the ac system maybe 2 months out of the year. It really doesnt get to hot here in the NW. However I have a hard time sleeping as it is.. but when its 78-82 degrees in the room, no fucking way. I dont like the idea of a portable ac unit with a hose going outside. Our bedroom set is ridicioulsly large and takes most of the space in the room. Mounting the AC unit on the side of the window even with sheet metal is out of the question. I dont know our neighborhood association would go for that, and it looks to trashy. (but who am I kidding I got 8 cars a boat and a rv at the house) ;)
Putting the window unit under in the crawlspace should work, I like the idea of a seperate fan maybe ducting fresh air in there. The ac unit would be mounted directly under the bedroom, maybe 1-2 foot of ducting tops. How are those window units controlled? Remote? I hope I can hardwire it somehow to control it? I dont think the remote would work well through the floor.
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U have a RV? O0
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U have a RV? O0
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U have a RV? O0
Nah its actually a non profit organization my wife does sidework through. I got suckered into working on it for free.
However I am looking for a early 80's, Class C, Ford Chasis around 20-25 footish.. I'm done sleeping in tents.
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U have a RV? O0
Nah its actually a non profit organization my wife does sidework through. I got suckered into working on it for free.
However I am looking for a early 80's, Class C, Ford Chasis around 20-25 footish.. I'm done sleeping in tents.
i dont like the work and mess from a tent so i just bring tarps and a bag when i go camping lol. i try to stay away from rainy days witch is sometimes hard in washington. but as long as it doesnt pour im fine but making something a bit off ground or having a cot would fix that.
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i was gonna say swamp cooler as well but not sure how well a swamp cooler will actually do in our humidity up here though. it worked great in my house in new mexico but its dry as fuck down there. but yeah, you can pick one up and have it installed for under a grand easy
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big old rad, garden hose and a big ass fan, done deal hmt style.
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There are 4 basic standards in AC units.
1) Window Units
2) Through Wall Units(essentially a big window unit)
3) Portable Units
4) Central AC
Personally, I'd get the portable unit. I'd vent into the attic. Pretty simple way of doing things and works reasonably well.
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run hot water through a radiator from a civic with the radiator fan turned on full blast, and attach the hoses to an ouside firew rig.
hydronic heating ftw.
in all seriousness, just get a heater and insulate the damne house jeff. sheesh.
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run hot water through a radiator from a civic with the radiator fan turned on full blast, and attach the hoses to an ouside firew rig.
hydronic heating ftw.
in all seriousness, just get a heater and insulate the damne house jeff. sheesh.
WTF is all the heating shit about, this thread is about cooling his house off...
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i was gonna say swamp cooler as well but not sure how well a swamp cooler will actually do in our humidity up here though. it worked great in my house in new mexico but its dry as fuck down there. but yeah, you can pick one up and have it installed for under a grand easy
WHere in Washington do you live that it's humid? Washington is by far NOT humid. Go down south (towards fl) this time of year and you'll know humid
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U have a RV? O0
Nah its actually a non profit organization my wife does sidework through. I got suckered into working on it for free.
However I am looking for a early 80's, Class C, Ford Chasis around 20-25 footish.. I'm done sleeping in tents.
i dont like the work and mess from a tent so i just bring tarps and a bag when i go camping lol. i try to stay away from rainy days witch is sometimes hard in washington. but as long as it doesnt pour im fine but making something a bit off ground or having a cot would fix that.
FUck that, i survirorman that shit, go out there with a pocket knife and the clothes on my back, feasting off peoples pet dogs and cats, luring them in with some antifreeze and when theyre not lookin BAM, rock to the head.
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you would eat peoples dogs and cats. ;D
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DIY Air Conditioning! (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1150418/diy_air_conditioning/)
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Off topic,
Can we get the old hmt song from the front page back in the day back up. ;D
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i was gonna say swamp cooler as well but not sure how well a swamp cooler will actually do in our humidity up here though. it worked great in my house in new mexico but its dry as fuck down there. but yeah, you can pick one up and have it installed for under a grand easy
WHere in Washington do you live that it's humid? Washington is by far NOT humid. Go down south (towards fl) this time of year and you'll know humid
swamp coolers are best done in used in areas with less than 30% humidity. in washington, we're rarely that low
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i was gonna say swamp cooler as well but not sure how well a swamp cooler will actually do in our humidity up here though. it worked great in my house in new mexico but its dry as fuck down there. but yeah, you can pick one up and have it installed for under a grand easy
WHere in Washington do you live that it's humid? Washington is by far NOT humid. Go down south (towards fl) this time of year and you'll know humid
swamp coolers are best done in used in areas with less than 30% humidity. in washington, we're rarely that low
BUT... Typically the days that you need AC in Wa are days where it is less then 30% .
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Swamp coolers are very popular in the deserts. They dont cool as fast as ac but are much cheaper to run.
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Swamp coolers are very popular in the deserts. They dont cool as fast as ac but are much cheaper to run.
A well setup swamp cooler should actually cool better, as water has a far higher heat load capacity then R-134 or R-404.
But there are a lot of factors that come into play.
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I was looking for a cheap way to cool my place down a little too. I was thinking of huge attic fans one intake at one end and an exhaust at the other. I noticed my attic is usually really fucking hot. Anyone ever do something like this and see any results?
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run hot water through a radiator from a civic with the radiator fan turned on full blast, and attach the hoses to an ouside firew rig.
hydronic heating ftw.
in all seriousness, just get a heater and insulate the damne house jeff. sheesh.
huh?
i was gonna say swamp cooler as well but not sure how well a swamp cooler will actually do in our humidity up here though. it worked great in my house in new mexico but its dry as fuck down there. but yeah, you can pick one up and have it installed for under a grand easy
WHere in Washington do you live that it's humid? Washington is by far NOT humid. Go down south (towards fl) this time of year and you'll know humid
washington is a hell of a lot more humid than vegas, i'm sure vegas and new mexico are similar.
when humidity gets to 10% in vegas people start to complain about the humidity.
Agreed, my dad lives in Vegas. He came up for my wedding (which was the hottest day in WA last year) in Eastern WA. he about fucking died from the humidity.
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lol, damn. I wonder how he'd feel in 80%+.
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Uh, residential HVAC work isn't difficult.
fixed for you.
now to the real topic.
it might work when the attic temp is 80 or around there. The blower on the window a/c isnt supposed to be blown through duct, the added static pressure in the duct may overload the little blower motor.. So the supply duct should be left as short as can be..
also, the temp drop across the evap is only ment to be around 20 degrees depending on the humidity and temperature of the space.. So if you have this unit in your attic unless you duct in the return and supply air, you will be pulling in 90+ degree attic air and only supplying 70 or higher degree air into your room.. not only that, if your pulling in 90+ degree return air on the evaporator coil, the suction pressure and superheat will be too high and overload the compressor due to no suction gas cooling the compressor. They are not made to be using high temp return air for long periods of time.
id pass on this one.
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that homemade AC is pretty sweet, i bet it would work alot better if you added ice to the cooler. might have to try that this summer
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Humidity here stays around 60-80% year around. Another month and you walk outside and feel the thick ass air hit you like a wall.
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Uh, residential HVAC work isn't difficult.
fixed for you.
now to the real topic.
it might work when the attic temp is 80 or around there. The blower on the window a/c isnt supposed to be blown through duct, the added static pressure in the duct may overload the little blower motor.. So the supply duct should be left as short as can be..
also, the temp drop across the evap is only ment to be around 20 degrees depending on the humidity and temperature of the space.. So if you have this unit in your attic unless you duct in the return and supply air, you will be pulling in 90+ degree attic air and only supplying 70 or higher degree air into your room.. not only that, if your pulling in 90+ degree return air on the evaporator coil, the suction pressure and superheat will be too high and overload the compressor due to no suction gas cooling the compressor. They are not made to be using high temp return air for long periods of time.
id pass on this one.
First he is putting it in the crawlspace not the attic. [SIDE NOTE ON AC] typically in AC they teach you to put it as high as possible as cool air falls, hot air rises. So he could run ducting to the ceiling and have it drop down, but that sounds like way too much effort.[/SIDE NOTE ON AC] I can't say I have ever been in a crawl space that was 90 degrees, even if it is over 100 degrees out. More then likely it will be more like 70 degrees, so 70 dropping to 50 is reasonable, not ideal but it will work. Especially if he can get it to draw in air from the room as it cools off, and exhaust the hot air out of the crawl space.
The only time temp drop across the evap is "supposed" to be ~20 degrees, is on cheap evap cores (all aluminum or aluminum / copper cores), BUT realistically that is all you need for 90% of the situations. Now keep in mind I stay as far away from residential and commercial AC as I possibly can, you have to work too much and not get paid enough, and there are 10,000 guys out there looking to undercut each other.
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Tell your wife its a lot easier to smash a plate window than it is to pull an AC unit out of a window. Hell you can spend $7 for a glass cutter, quietly cut a section out, unlock, and you're in to rape & pillage.
If you can turbo your own car, you can secure a window unit sufficiently to deture theft. Otherwise if you have a basement, put it there, then use ducting to move cold into the room & heat from the unit outside.
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First he is putting it in the crawlspace not the attic. [SIDE NOTE ON AC] typically in AC they teach you to put it as high as possible as cool air falls, hot air rises. So he could run ducting to the ceiling and have it drop down, but that sounds like way too much effort.[/SIDE NOTE ON AC] I can't say I have ever been in a crawl space that was 90 degrees, even if it is over 100 degrees out. More then likely it will be more like 70 degrees, so 70 dropping to 50 is reasonable, not ideal but it will work. Especially if he can get it to draw in air from the room as it cools off, and exhaust the hot air out of the crawl space.
Yeah I didnt see that he was putting it in the crawlspace. Either way, the little fan wheel and small blower wont be able to handle the added resistance from the duct if its more than a couple feet. The system is not designed for it, If the duct is too small there will be low airflow he will have a unit that will freeze up.
The only time temp drop across the evap is "supposed" to be ~20 degrees, is on cheap evap cores (all aluminum or aluminum / copper cores), BUT realistically that is all you need for 90% of the situations. Now keep in mind I stay as far away from residential and commercial AC as I possibly can, you have to work too much and not get paid enough, and there are 10,000 guys out there looking to undercut each other.
Honestly i dont think you know what your talking about on the evap coils. Copper/aluminum cores have been used forever, and are the choice of all brands unless you need an all copper or coated coil for a space with particles in the air that will eat at the coils or some specialized equipment. I can be workin on a 20ton roof top unit one day and a 300ton unit the next day, they all use aluminum/copper coils.
Also The temp drop across the evap coils should be around 20 degrees on an air/air evap coil during full load conditions on a normal system. Evap temp drop will change depending on outdoor ambient, indoor drybulb temperature, indoor wet bulb temperature and airflow in CFM through the evap coil.
Now if your talking specialized equipment, its a different story. the system can be designed to do whatever the person wants, but thats going to be different and is the not the same operation as a normal system.
as for the money thing, starting pay here is 20 plus all paid healthcare, dental, pension, and training. The top pay is over 42 an hour on the check plus all the other stuff, Seems pretty good to me. All I do is commercial/industrial work. we work on systems from 3 ton split systems to 500+ ton chillers.
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We do off-road equipment, specializing in mining equip. and some highway trucks, and some military apps. No reefers as that is a whole other ball of wax.
In stock I carry: a full aluminum (special one off item for one customer only), copper / aluminum (90% of my stock) Copper / copper that has fluted tubes, and a proprietary wave to the fin as well as has a spiral collector with a choke similar to what you see in a good header.
I have pulled open some compact window units that are more expensive and have a higher btu output then avg, and found copper copper cores, and other tricks to give them the greater output in the same packaging. In fact I have used them as cheaper alternatives to custom coils, for prototype units. That is the thing with commercial AC you rarely have a real lack of space for a unit. Either it fits or it doesn't. We spend over a Million dollars each year on R&D most of which goes into trying to decrease the foot print of our mining and military units, while keeping the efficiency where it is.
I am not talking wages, I am talking profit margins. Wages very greatly just by the geographic area that you are in. The profit margins are not in commercial ac like they are in offroad ac.