:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 01:27:56 AM

Title: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 01:27:56 AM
For the last 3 months I've been collecting parts, and trying to recycle some old parts kicking around in the garage.  I had a $500 budget.  Of course the $500 was just for the base turbo kit; to get me up and running.  The water-meth kit would be extra, but I had it laying around the garage along with an old PLXM300 wideband unit that I decided to re use.

Here is my build:

1996 Acura Integra (stock)
-intercooler pipes/bov/couplers/clamps were off an old Saab 9000 combined with old Talon parts ~ $20 (junkyard/parts cars)
-turbocharger & elbow was off an 1989 Saab 9000 -T3 50 trim ~$40 (junkyard)
-custom manifold was made by Cory (on here) - $235
-slim fans ($30ea + tax) ~$70
-ECU: chipped and tuned myself - free
-misc fittings/SS oil lines/hardware ~ $30
-old injectors off a 2000 Prelude (280cc) - free
-B & M FPR (60psi) ~ $10
-fuel pressure gauge ~ $25
-water meth pump/tank/controller (untuned as of now) ~ re used
-old wideband - re used
-boost gauge ~ $10
-blue oil manifold ~ $3
-mics hose clamps vacuum lines/free
-1/2" drill bit for tapping oil pan - $10
-Permatex Ultra Grey for oil pan gasket $5
-misc eletrical - free
____________________________________
total $458

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Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: onlyflash944 on June 04, 2009, 01:38:46 AM
really nice budget setup with a/c and p/s
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: malichite on June 04, 2009, 02:32:21 AM
Thats fucking Tits! :yes:
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: esi42 on June 04, 2009, 05:31:19 AM
Nice!

Was there an intercooler or did you just plan on using the water injection?
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 08:43:43 AM
Plan is to keep the 2" piping as short as possible and use the water/meth injection.  Im never going to have this car at the track or take it over 5500.  This is just a straight street setup.  My other built LS Vtec hatch is the track car.

Any thoughts on placement of the meth nozzles?  At the moment I'm thinking about splitting the feed and running one just before the throttle body and the other just before the turbo inlet.  Both being 50cc in size, pump operating at 100psi, 9-10psi boost.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 08:53:27 AM
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Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Kenny Rogers on June 04, 2009, 12:12:09 PM
Awesome build :)

I have more research to do on meth injection, but would there be any reason to spray it before the turbo?  I'd figure you'd want both nozzles to be closer to the TB... maybe not, I don't know enough about it.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: marcj on June 04, 2009, 02:02:17 PM
at least stuff a dsm side mount in the equation.. so what if you spend 40 more bucks? you're still within the total price range.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 02:11:42 PM
I've got an ugly ass DSM sidemount, but don't really have a good place for it.  I am totally going to consider an intercooler if my IAT's are high and Im still getting detonation with an ign retard of more than 1.5*/psi.  If I were to get one it would be a small front mount painted flat black.  Ill keep this updated.

Water-meth tuning will be done this weekend.

Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 02:15:35 PM
Awesome build :)

I have more research to do on meth injection, but would there be any reason to spray it before the turbo?  I'd figure you'd want both nozzles to be closer to the TB... maybe not, I don't know enough about it.

After reading this article I have decided to use what they call a "staggered injection" system.  Scroll down or read the whole article if you wish.

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/a40/Where-Do-I-Position-My-Water-Methanol-Injection-Nozzles/article_info.html (http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/a40/Where-Do-I-Position-My-Water-Methanol-Injection-Nozzles/article_info.html)

Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Kenny Rogers on June 04, 2009, 04:02:20 PM
^ Thanks, I can see why you are leaning towards a staggered setup.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: jarebear667 on June 04, 2009, 04:08:08 PM
lude injectors are 310 arnt they?
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 08:55:21 PM
Older 93ish are 310cc and obd1.  The obd2, 2000 Prelude, are 280cc I believe.  Since they are obd2, they are plug and play with my 96 Integra and I didn't have to mess around with a resistor box.  My fuel multiplier was set around .80  at 60psi fuel pressure to get an idle around 14.5 AFR.  The rest of the tune is based on that, and right now it looks as though I'm good to 7500rpm at 9psi keeping <= 90% duty cycle.  This is without the water/meth injection.  I'm going to assume my duty cycle will only drop dramatically...how much?  I'll aim for 10-15% for now.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: glustic on June 04, 2009, 09:36:02 PM
Wow. This is a sick setup for only $458. Of course it helps that you have other parts laying around. Sick!
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Travis on June 04, 2009, 10:04:07 PM
wait till the haters hate on 306 lol. looks good NIGGER
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 10:12:36 PM
Yup, I only shake my head and laugh.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 04, 2009, 10:16:59 PM
I've finally got some filters for the PCV venting.  $20.

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Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: marcj on June 04, 2009, 10:37:47 PM
straight tits for a daily beater
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Urban Indian on June 04, 2009, 10:42:50 PM
ballin
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: esi42 on June 05, 2009, 01:17:06 AM
I remember reading that having water injection before the turbo inlet is bad since the water can etch the wheel like a sand blaster effect.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 05, 2009, 01:23:10 AM
Yes, it will definitely decrease the life of the wheel from what I read.  If this turbo didn't cost me $40 I'd be skeptical.  But for now, screw it.  Ill keep an eye on it.  8)
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: HiProfile on June 05, 2009, 02:42:04 AM
Meth eats aluminum, there's no way around it. With a blade hitting droplets at 120k rpm, you also get that sandblasting effect to a small degree. Honestly though, there is probably enough buildup of oil inside the cast material (both wheel & housing) to do much harm.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: esi42 on June 05, 2009, 05:55:58 AM
Yes, it will definitely decrease the life of the wheel from what I read.  If this turbo didn't cost me $40 I'd be skeptical.  But for now, screw it.  Ill keep an eye on it.  8)

I like your style. :)
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: esi42 on June 05, 2009, 06:00:15 AM
I almost forgot.....


"Robble, robble, robble."     8)
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 05, 2009, 08:50:57 AM
Meth eats aluminum, there's no way around it. With a blade hitting droplets at 120k rpm, you also get that sandblasting effect to a small degree. Honestly though, there is probably enough buildup of oil inside the cast material (both wheel & housing) to do much harm.

How much do you think the mix would play a role in this?  I don't like it either.  If I had a new bb turbo, there is no way I'd be injecting pre turbo.  But like I said, Ill keep an eye on it and if it gets bad Ill replace the turbo and relocate the nozzle.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: johntsi on June 05, 2009, 10:23:51 AM
thought i would throw it out there meth eats teeth also. :evil: nice build
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Travis on June 05, 2009, 02:33:15 PM
thought i would throw it out there meth eats teeth also. :evil: nice build

shut up faggot
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 05, 2009, 08:37:22 PM
Has anyone hookup up a one way valve pre turbo and pre throttle body?  From the reading I've been doing, it looks as though it's only needed when the nozzles are hooked up post tb (ie. drilled into intake manifold).   But thinking about it, Im wondering if the negative pressure pre turbo will suck out the meth from lines as well as the vacuum created on shifts pre thottle body.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 05, 2009, 09:17:14 PM
I bought 2 electronic check valves that will be run in series after the pump.  Controller -> Pump -> Check valve.  This should solve any problems I have with suction of meth out of boost or between shifts.  The question now becomes how am I going to mount this and look good...

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Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Teg2boo on June 05, 2009, 11:47:14 PM
You know, I never think of this when I install an intercooler.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 05, 2009, 11:53:44 PM
You know, I never think of this when I install an intercooler.

Lol, that's exactly what I would have said to Hamburgler.  Front mount isn't out of the picture, depending on IAT's.  Well see.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: caged on June 06, 2009, 02:30:38 AM
I run water/meth just before the tb with no intercooler. I recommend pre turbo as well as it drops IAT's more than after, run a small nozzle pre turbo and a big fucker after. There is a nozzle calculator on the "devils own" water injection site. Dont listen to all the pre turbo haters, the nozzles are very efficient at atomizing these days and they dont have huge droplets like the old days.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 06, 2009, 09:28:28 AM
I run water/meth just before the tb with no intercooler. I recommend pre turbo as well as it drops IAT's more than after, run a small nozzle pre turbo and a big fucker after. There is a nozzle calculator on the "devils own" water injection site. Dont listen to all the pre turbo haters, the nozzles are very efficient at atomizing these days and they dont have huge droplets like the old days.

I was planning to run a 50cc nozzle pre turbo and a 50cc nozzle pre TB.  Did you have any problems with suction or do you have some check valves hooked up?

From the reading I have been doing it sounds like pre turbo injection is safe with smaller nozzles > 3" away from compressor.  Also, water meth mix plays a key factor with compressor damage.  Those who were running larger nozzles and straight water, 1" away from the compressor, were seeing damage to the wheel. 
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: caged on June 06, 2009, 07:50:22 PM
I run a 300cc nozzle before the TB, I want to upgrade and run a 75cc pre turbo as well. No check valves or solenoids, the pump has a check valve built in. This is on a 2.4L with no intercooler.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: HiProfile on June 06, 2009, 07:58:43 PM
The water may have had a sandblasting effect due to it not evaporating as easily. However, methanol corrodes aluminum regardess of it being a mist or a pool - its a chemical reaction.

I'd vote for the stagered setup, but I think that would have issues with linearity and atomization. One nozzle may have a different pressure, and not atomize as expected. I don't claim to have meth experience, just some physics and chem courses behind my belt.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: caged on June 06, 2009, 08:17:49 PM
Theres been alot of practical tests that have had 60,000miles and the compressor wheel shows fuck all pitting under a microscope, the 50/50 mix is suppose to evaporate easier and none of the setups have shown meth corrosion on the wheel or housing. I think the heat of the compressor wheel would also help. I have no physics or chem knowledge but have had hands on experience.

The staggered set up would be fine, as the pressure at the nozzle seeing boost decreases the pressure at the compressor increases. This is the poor mans setup, you can get a progressive controller which would be Superior but expensive and this is RHMT :noel:.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 07, 2009, 09:55:31 AM
I've got a progressive controller. 

Now I'm just wondering; if I were to have the choice between just water meth injection AND just a front mount intercooler, whats going to be more efficient?  I'm just curious.  This is ignoring price and just focusing on efficiency.

Of course having them both would be cool and I might just end up doing that.

BTW, I just looked over my logs from a different b18b that I had boost few years ago and my IAT's were between 112 and 118.  I have not logged the meth yet.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Travis on June 08, 2009, 08:11:42 PM
Adam, you tuned this on crome? Have you run into any bugs while tuning your car(s)? I can't get it too load on vista, what the hell is the deal with that?
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: glustic on June 08, 2009, 08:13:56 PM
Adam, you tuned this on crome? Have you run into any bugs while tuning your car(s)? I can't get it too load on vista, what the hell is the deal with that?

You need to run it in compatibility mode.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 09, 2009, 02:00:27 AM
Adam, you tuned this on crome? Have you run into any bugs while tuning your car(s)? I can't get it too load on vista, what the hell is the deal with that?

I "downgraded" to XP when I bought my laptop 1-2 years ago because I had seen alot of people asking why Crome doesn't work with Vista.  I still have the same laptop, got it for 1/2 price, and have never had any problems.  Sorry to hear that man.  I'm sure there is a fix for it by now.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: glustic on June 09, 2009, 06:10:31 PM
Adam, you tuned this on crome? Have you run into any bugs while tuning your car(s)? I can't get it too load on vista, what the hell is the deal with that?

I "downgraded" to XP when I bought my laptop 1-2 years ago because I had seen alot of people asking why Crome doesn't work with Vista.  I still have the same laptop, got it for 1/2 price, and have never had any problems.  Sorry to hear that man.  I'm sure there is a fix for it by now.

Any way you look at it Vista blows ass. I fucking hate it.
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: Travis on June 09, 2009, 08:51:29 PM
Adam, you tuned this on crome? Have you run into any bugs while tuning your car(s)? I can't get it too load on vista, what the hell is the deal with that?

I "downgraded" to XP when I bought my laptop 1-2 years ago because I had seen alot of people asking why Crome doesn't work with Vista.  I still have the same laptop, got it for 1/2 price, and have never had any problems.  Sorry to hear that man.  I'm sure there is a fix for it by now.

I'm not concerned, since you'll be tuning my shit nignog  :-* do you just do street tuning or runs on the dyno at P+? make em say ughhhhhhhhh
Title: Re: Hamburglers $458 budget build (96 Integra)
Post by: hamburgler on June 10, 2009, 02:17:56 AM
I do highway tuning for up to 300hp.  After that it just gets to dangerous on the roads doing 3rd or 4th gears pulls.

What you got?