:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: crxvtec91 on July 15, 2009, 11:31:41 AM
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OK, so I got talked into cranking the boost a bit more on the Vitara's today.
I didn't plan on doing this until later in the summer, but we wanted to have it all tuned out at higher boost levels so that we could just turn it up at the track if we felt we were close to hitting 9's but needed a bit more.
Well, here it is:
609whp/404tq @ 30psi!
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FJFK-609-404-2Medium.jpg&hash=a34068438c7890ed29e792a709eebeddc0d067e5)
Vid of one of the pulls, not sure which one'll be up first.
SpeedFactory '09 Vitara Build - New Record 600+whp!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-CvdlJLes4#lq-lq2-hq-vhq)
Streetfire:
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpx5.sfstatic.com%2Fthumbs%2F0000%2F55%2F62%2F695526.jpg&hash=f8d038a0114493c7af645c62ac64d1f2e3e1f148) (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/SpeedFactory09-Vitara-New_695526.htm?ref=65d4976f-ec9b-4d1e-a828-990b001b9c6a) (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/326fd364-7028-4cb5-b059-9c460183c1d2.htm?ref=65d4976f-ec9b-4d1e-a828-990b001b9c6a)
This wasn't a 1 pull deal, we made 5 pulls at this boost level, all runs were over 600+whp/400+tq. She's taking it like a soldier!
We had a slight ignition misfire at torque peak on the 2nd pull w/the plugs at .014 gap, so we dropped it to .012 and no more misfires."
Here's the link: http://d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/115117-when-550whp-vitaras-isnt-enough.html (http://d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/115117-when-550whp-vitaras-isnt-enough.html)
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I got the call at 11 PM or so about it.
Nice repost homes.....
James knows his shit... Bryce??? meh, hes more of a billy mayes... Curios as to how long its going to last
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Sweet numbers. ;D
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D is teh new B
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Holly falafel balls batman!! Now it needs a 75 shot! :evil:
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Id be shocked if the transmission lasts a pass on that power level. Pretty amazing stuff
Finally a vitara build with a some serious head work. Power shows it.
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so, you're claiming a record of most horsepower on a specific set of pistons? LOL
that's like setting the record for highest hp with a blox intake manifold; it's not a widely competitive record
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so, you're claiming a record of most horsepower on a specific set of pistons? LOL
that's like setting the record for highest hp with a blox intake manifold; it's not a widely competitive record
you need to be punched in the face
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what exactly makes d series transmissions weaker than others like b series? shitty diff? smaller internals can't take the abuse?
anyway, sick numbers
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Lol you can see me standing infront of the car. Good work James!
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so, you're claiming a record of most horsepower on a specific set of pistons? LOL
that's like setting the record for highest hp with a blox intake manifold; it's not a widely competitive record
you need to be punched in the face
+1
Awesome numbers man, thats amazing on those pistons. 609 whp is no joke
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so, you're claiming a record of most horsepower on a specific set of pistons? LOL
that's like setting the record for highest hp with a blox intake manifold; it's not a widely competitive record
Ok how about 600whp+ on stock sleeves?
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so, you're claiming a record of most horsepower on a specific set of pistons? LOL
that's like setting the record for highest hp with a blox intake manifold; it's not a widely competitive record
Ok how about 600whp+ on stock sleeves?
remember that you're speaking with a fucking tard dude.
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Holy fucking shit..................
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Very nice! That shit is gonna rip :)
I never understood the Vitara thing. Same thing can be done on stock pistons.
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Tuning, the 240 cfm head that's on it all kinds of shit. Stock pistons are not as weak as u think
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Very nice! That shit is gonna rip :)
I never understood the Vitara thing. Same thing can be done on stock pistons.
Build a motor. Buy stock pistons. Pay to have a groove cut for floating wrist pins. I'm sure you'll have more than $125 in your rings n pistons at that point.
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Agreed. But the point is, stock pistons are not a weak link.
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Stock clearances are a weak link.
It makes me titter like a schoolgirl to see a SOHC carry torque up that high.
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Nice numbers.
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I have seen a few stock d's with smashed ring lands. Is that just due to the greater compression? I can't recall ever seeing vitara's suffer the same fate.
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I thought it was stock D series Rods that always bent at 200 - 220 WHP.
Who cares though. He made 600WHP on $100 Ching Chong Suzuki pistons...
I was worried about 300-350 on my Vitara's... that looks pretty fuckin easy after seeing this
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I thought it was stock D series Rods that always bent at 200 - 220 WHP.
Who cares though. He made 600WHP on $100 Ching Chong Suzuki pistons...
I was worried about 300-350 on my Vitara's... that looks pretty fuckin easy after seeing this
Yeah, His head flows 240cfm which is a shitton over stock
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whoever did the headwork knows what there doing those kind of numbers out of a d head arent easy. Nor cheap alot of LABOR
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Agreed. But the point is, stock pistons are not a weak link.
Ringlands, higher compression, pressed pins.... eh.
Everything points to Vitaras being a better choice than stock pistons.
I doubt that ringlands are any stronger, and I doubt that a pressed pin is any weaker. If anything the Vitara piston is made of an inferior grade of metal.
Compression does have an effect, but that's beside the point. Just run P07s.
I thought it was stock D series Rods that always bent at 200 - 220 WHP.
300-330, you mean? Because I've yet to see one bend at 200-220. I've yet to see any bend, but 260 is the most I've gotten from a stock rod setup.
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So what about the handful of D's that I have had spit the rod out the side of the block? None of those made more then 180whp?
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Detonation causes motors to sieze up by parting oil film and driving upper rod bearing against crank... unless you're talking about D15s. They have pencil rods only slightly bigger than 350Z.
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One D16 and a couple D15's Iirc. Detonation would make sense for the D16.
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Yeah, they're really volatile. I just yank a lot of timing for the street tune kids these days and let them know they may or may not be happy when the car hits the dyno.
Another reason I love Vitaras, that low CR makes them not volatile, but I can't repeat enough that I don't think it's a "better" piston than stock. It's china as hell, but it's kinda hard to fuck up casting a chunk of aluminum as long as the base metal is somewhat clean.
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240cfm out of a d head :o Thats alot of fucking air!!!!!!!!! No wonder it carrys the tq so well. Whats stock cfm on a sohc vtec head?
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Agreed. But the point is, stock pistons are not a weak link.
Ringlands, higher compression, pressed pins.... eh.
Everything points to Vitaras being a better choice than stock pistons.
I doubt that ringlands are any stronger, and I doubt that a pressed pin is any weaker. If anything the Vitara piston is made of an inferior grade of metal.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe250%2FJayNLorimel%2Fprojects%2FIMG00066.jpg&hash=502a95e8e644b579983ac7890c52630a66a2fe99)
bigger ringlands....
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240cfm out of a d head :o Thats alot of fucking air!!!!!!!!! No wonder it carrys the tq so well. Whats stock cfm on a sohc vtec head?
Off the top of my head 175cfm
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Agreed. But the point is, stock pistons are not a weak link.
Ringlands, higher compression, pressed pins.... eh.
Everything points to Vitaras being a better choice than stock pistons.
I doubt that ringlands are any stronger, and I doubt that a pressed pin is any weaker. If anything the Vitara piston is made of an inferior grade of metal.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi40.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe250%2FJayNLorimel%2Fprojects%2FIMG00066.jpg&hash=502a95e8e644b579983ac7890c52630a66a2fe99)
bigger ringlands....
Yes, but how strong?
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Agreed. But the point is, stock pistons are not a weak link.
Ringlands, higher compression, pressed pins.... eh.
Everything points to Vitaras being a better choice than stock pistons.
I doubt that ringlands are any stronger, and I doubt that a pressed pin is any weaker. If anything the Vitara piston is made of an inferior grade of metal.
bigger ringlands....
Yes, but how strong?
Well at least enough for 600whp :P :P :P
Yes, there is conjecture that stockers could do it, but they haven't. Well at least to my knowledge, they haven't
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To change the direction of this thread.
Unless they are running out of hotside, I bet that turbo has another ~10psi left in it, something tells me we will never know though.
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700 is gonna be the new 500
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It already is. And thats why there is no B series tranny's left in wa. lol and no one can go fast here either cuz no one and i mean NO ONE fucks with suspension.
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Floating pins reduce the chance of the pin sticking under high cylinder pressure and causing the piston to rock. As the piston rocks, ring seal is lost and power is wasted.
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It already is. And thats why there is no H series tranny's left in wa. lol and no one can go fast here either cuz no one and i mean NO ONE fucks with suspension.
lol
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It already is. And thats why there is no HIV series tranny's left in wa. lol and no one can go fast here either cuz no one and i mean NO ONE fucks with suspension.
lol
I, too, have heard of this occurrence and I live 3000 miles away.
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SHHHH....... WERE TRYING TO NIGNORE YOU JD......
O0 O0 O0
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God damn, you guys think 240cfm is a lot? lol, F22A heads flow more than that, stock, haha.
Anyways, I already replied to the H-T thread. Congrats on the numbers. I'm really curious what Bisi's cam gonna do. I bet it's going to take him half the year to come out with it ::) This build is just going to gain him more fucking nut swingers.
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God damn, you guys think 240cfm is a lot? lol, F22A heads flow more than that, stock, haha...
Compared to the starting point of 175cfm, yeah it is a lot.
So what K heads flow close to 300cfm stock, doesn't mean they are not attached to fail...
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SHHHH....... WERE TRYING TO NIGNORE YOU JD......
O0 O0 O0
PUH-LEASE, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
God damn, you guys think 240cfm is a lot? lol, F22A heads flow more than that, stock, haha...
Compared to the starting point of 175cfm, yeah it is a lot.
So what K heads flow close to 300cfm stock, doesn't mean they are not attached to fail...
After the last three Subraus I had to deal with that needed engines when they rolled in for tuning (yay, 2.5's!!!!), K-series is a fucking DREAM. I now officially love K-series, not as much as D's and B's, but goddamn at least they make power without coming apart if you replace the retainers in the early motors.
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JD got his taint licked by a K-series last night, so he is officially in love with them.
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No one has a problem finding H tranny's yet.
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HELLO JOSH ROSS
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Who did the head?
Is stock really only 175cfm?
Sweet numbers.
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Who did the head?
Is stock really only 175cfm?
Sweet numbers.
I believe it was chris the old tuner from intec but dont quote me 100%. Im pretty sure thats what james told me.
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Is stock really only 175cfm?
Sweet numbers.
Stock Y8 is.
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Is stock really only 175cfm?
Sweet numbers.
Stock Y8 is.
How much lift?
175 isn't bad at all, but 65 feet on a port is a ton.
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.483 if i remember correctly.
Is james on Rhmt? or still on ohmt? someone hit him up on H-T if not.
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James is JFK78? He posted on ex-HMT about a month or two before the Rick P failure. He's a good egg, I imagine if you linked him to this thread he'd post up and answer a few questions about his setup.
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Bryce??? meh, hes more of a billy mayes... Curios as to how long its going to last
That's funny! He kind of is like Billy Mayes but I like him, he's a good guy. He's the one that talked me into cranking it, actually.
I'm curious as to how long this things going to last myself! She seems real happy to take a beating though. :o
I reused the 240K stock oil pump on this motor! hahaha
The cam is .479 lift, vtec lobe BARELY clears the oil galley in the head.
Chris did the head for me (it's my head from last years motor), it flowed ~175cfm stock, and ~225cfm after porting before the VJ. I can't remember the exact #, and I never got the flowchart from him, it's on Stefan's laptop. He doesn't really have time to port heads anymore, but does them on occasion for us as a favor. He did remove a TON of material (actually said he never wants to do a Y8 again), but the Y8 port/divider configuration still sucks bigtime. He's doing another head for me, Z6 this time. See if we can't get even more out of it, and maybe use some aftermarket valves this time with undercut/swirled stems. Debating on going O.S. as well.
I built this motor with tight quench, but I've read conflicting views on the use of quench on heavily boosted engines. Seems to be working fine here though.
Z6 head will severely reduce the quench, we'll see how she does whenever that head is done. Might be a sleeved block by then though.
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225 is starting to sound a little more realistic. Still damn fine.
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FYI, since we have you on tap, do you have any pics of your valve cover fab? I really like it, looks like it was super simple to baffle without constricting flow.
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FYI, since we have you on tap, do you have any pics of your valve cover fab? I really like it, looks like it was super simple to baffle without constricting flow.
x2
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FYI, since we have you on tap, do you have any pics of your valve cover fab? I really like it, looks like it was super simple to baffle without constricting flow.
I think all he did was welded a piece of square tubing onto the cover then drilled several holes through the cover into the tubing. But since what I think don't worth shit, I hope he tells us what he did.
I didn't take any pics during fab, but it really is super simple, and we didn't have to baffle anything.
It was a piece of square channel that fit a -12an fitting, we cut the bottom open and cut/folded/welded the far side down for the angle. Then we drilled holes from the top above the areas where the factory baffling is in place in order to utilize what is already there. Slightly enlarged a few of the existing holes on the underside, nothing major. Welded her up, then ground/sanded for that "made that way" raw metal look that I love so much.
After all the dyno pulls and track runs, there is still absolutley nothing in the catch can. This setup works flawlessly, and is gorgeous to boost! I take a few minutes to stare at the engine bay everyday, it's my favorite piece of art that I own!
Figured I'd post the older pics here as well, it's slightly cleaner now but nothing major.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FIMG_3627.jpg&hash=d79f37abc4faac4d52662cc08b3f3f5058ea257c)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FIMG_3622_RESIZED.jpg&hash=2de29746984e894031582946c5471823f3af11c0)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FIMG_3612.jpg&hash=e0d88089d5b614d0836661c71f0c5edfec1d2ca5)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FIMG_3626.jpg&hash=51cfefada141676cb87bceef1edbb56d2e513236)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FIMG_3632.jpg&hash=398033dac8cb7ff40ba61fa9371dea5f47ffd4e5)
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Yup... Ricky can fucking weld..... :noel:
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lol i paid more attention to your D than mine when you were tuning my car.
real track times please :)
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Do you have any daughters? I think I love you. Those are some........numbers for a d series.
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It just needs that MF D dog box, or a D - B adapter, and the turbo setup off your sfwd car.
Regardless in for times.
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Its about time you made it :noel: :yes:
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Do you have any daughters? I think I love you. Those are some........numbers for a d series.
Yes, I do. But she is definitely off limits to anybody on this site, ever!
It just needs that MF D dog box, or a D - B adapter, and the turbo setup off your sfwd car.
Regardless in for times.
Maybe next year.......haha
Hope to have some better times up soon, in the next week or two.
Its about time you made it :noel: :yes:
Thanks for the invite!
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Well, bad news. The motor is done.
One of the pistons decided to leave the building. No abnormal combustion or anything like that, all cylinders and plugs are/were perfect until this pass. #4 piston just came apart at only 23-24psi at the track. The wristpin beating around in there cut grooves all down the cylinder and cracked the sleeve at all 4 contact points.
We either found the limits and pushed them too far, or it was a freak incident that 1 piston fell apart.
Here's what we found when we pulled the head:
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FIMG_5948.jpg&hash=29c5ecae28f0ef8b9c50dcaea1ed34a968848b84)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm270%2FJFK_78%2FIMG_5940.jpg&hash=cd573e4f4e1ee3c20e47404616b94ef81a5b1f1a)
On a good note, it stayed together long enough for me to get my NHRA competition license!
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Damn that sucks. :o
When you will have another engine ready?
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We can probably fix this head. Now that it's off the car, we can have it digitized and offer a great, proven Y8 head port job.
I already have another Z6 head being ported right now though.
I don't think we are going to do another vitara build for my car though. It's time to step up to sleeved/forged for reliable power now and not having to worry about running it at 600+whp. We were going to go that route at first, but decided to try it with the vitaras instead.
We pushed the stock sleeve/vitara build to and way beyond all established limits and figured out how to build a good D16 combo that works well and makes great power, but at this point I would say that it's just not reliable enough for what we want to accomplish with the car.
We don't want to do this again in 1-2 months, and I'm not stuck on the whole vitara thing. I had my fun with them, and they are still by far the way to go for anybody wanting a 300-500whp range street/strip car.
I just want to go 9's reliably with a street legal/streetable D16 w/out wheelie bars. It's a great goal to work towards.
Up to ~500whp and 9000rpm is fine, but I think that 9500rpm and mid 500's-up is not reliable enough. I don't doubt that we could build another identical block and have it hold up fine, but the chances of failure are still to high for a reliable racecar.
We are sending out a block to Golden Eagle ASAP. :)
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You still have bragging rights. G/L with the new motor
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Ya I was wondering how long, but still GREAT work James...
Fuck all things considered, It really could have been a fuckload of a lot worse.
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Sucks it blew, but damn that engine bay is clean.
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The carbon trail on those pistons is the dictionary definition of perfect. Looks like you had a casting defect in #4, and I'm sad to see it happened so soon.
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Sad to see I was really hoping to see 9's on vitara's.
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Damn that sucks, crazy power while it lasted!
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Sad to see I was really hoping to see 9's on vitara's.
Dont forget Joe's car has a really solid chance.
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Its gonna happen. Most likely this year.
Sorry to hear dude. Fucking sucks. Im sure you'll go bigger and badder.
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Its gonna happen. Most likely this year.
Sorry to hear dude. Fucking sucks. Im sure you'll go bigger and badder.
Can't wait to see that!
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Thanks all.
Total on this motor was ~40-50 dyno pulls, ~100 street miles, and 12 passes at the track.
I think it was a casting/metallurgy flaw, or #4 was simply the weakest of the bunch and failed first. Either the skirt developed a crack and then it fell apart, or the pin boss area wasn't strong enough and the piston came apart there, detaching itself from the rod. We heard it rattling after the burnout right before the last pass, but I ran it anyway and shouldn't have. It would've saved a lot of damage.
I'm guessing that the high rpm was the killer. We had the rev limiter at 9600rpm. Last years build never saw over 9100rpm, and lasted forever.
We knew what we were getting into by pushing things this far, I just didn't expect it to let go this soon. But we learned a lot and everyone can benefit from it.
It would have been really cool to get a few passes in at high boost with the new slicks and tranny before she let go though!
The 6 passes to license were nothing spectacular. I just wanted to get the licensing passes done before really pushing it, so all these runs were on only 23-24psi of boost with super worn out slicks (almost 60 passes on them), and normal lift shifting. Conservative passes if you will. We have new slicks to put on the car too!
All runs were 1.6 60's, first 3 were partial runs.
Run 4 also a partial run, 10.66 @ 118mph.
Run 5 was 10.5 @ 138mph, banging off limiter all through 1st and 2nd, short shifting 3rd at 8900rpm.
Run 6 was the quickest run yet but then I missed 3rd gear and went 11.0 @ 130mph.
They still gave me my license though because the missed gear was the only reason for the low mph, and they have seen the car trap over 135mph several times before.
Basically, the car would've went ~10.4 @ 140mph @ 23-24psi had it not come apart.
I'm still halfway tempted to just throw another vitara block together to run (w/a lower revlimit) while we are building the sleeved block.
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That'd be awesome. You def got your moneys worth with the vitara bottom end.
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I hope to see the D sleeved and mashing on people fully built :noel:
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Do you have an idea how much the digitized y8 head will run when you come out with it?