:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: turbohf on November 15, 2009, 11:07:50 PM
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UPDATE.... still makes that fuckin noise...
but:
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi276.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fkk32%2Fefssuck2%2FRdyno.jpg&hash=25862c85febfc76b5e5385d5e785593c797f54dd)
Dave said fuckit, he would tune the knocker. so i drove an hour at 4-5k rpms up to his place and we tuned/dynoed it LOL...
300whp/210tq on the knocker... :-* lol
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lets play a game... but im also very serious about this.
got a fuckin noise. lots of things make noises, lots of things it seems can make this noise, so far, none have been proven to be this noise...
i hate noise (http://s276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/efssuck2/?action=view¤t=019.flv)
your thoughts?
info that i feel like providing, more will be given if actually needed (will update).
B18C w/decent base map on it. we are idling at like 14.5 AFR's
valve lash is to spec, triple checked
pushing in clutch makes no diff
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is the motor stock? was it just rebuilt?
rebuilt maybe half a mile on it, 2 hours of idling. aftermarket parts include: ACL rods/mains/thrust, NPR rings, Supertech 70lbs springs (they are the lighter ones). rest is OEM.
shit was plastigauged, turns freely. bearings have been removed and reinspected. none appeared to be spun. cleaned, lubed, reinstalled.
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sounds like plastic hitting metal because it smooths out as it spins faster. Timing belt hitting cover? Water pump hitting cover?
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sounds like plastic hitting metal because it smooths out as it spins faster. Timing belt hitting cover? Water pump hitting cover?
mmm. so the belt isnt hitting forsure. nor is the cam gears hitting the VC. but, i havent checked for the crank pulley against the cover, but that would make a grinding/cutting noise. OEM water pump and cover with no bends or warpage to it.
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everytime someone paints the valvecover white it makes that noise
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everytime someone paints the valvecover white it makes that noise
made the noise with the SPOOOON yellow one also (https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.realhomemadeturbo.com%2Fforum%2FSmileys%2Fclassic%2Frolleyes.gif&hash=5805137b67db00abde932177bc58b11cc93be8c2)
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buy a stethoscope from HF so u can hear where its coming from :o
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does it sound like its at the top of the motor bottem, either side? Jack it up and listen under it even if you think its the top.
Is the crank pully fucked?
whats the oil pressure at idle?
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buy a stethoscope from HF so u can hear where its coming from :o
well from my ears it sounds like its coming from maybe the intake side or timing belt area. throw a fat ass screwdriver on some shit and up to your ear sounds the worst with it in the top port on my Tial WG, or exhaust manifold.
i have a HF stethoscope, it is a piece of shit.
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does it sound like its at the top of the motor bottem, either side? Jack it up and listen under it even if you think its the top.
Is the crank pully fucked?
whats the oil pressure at idle?
not sure, i thought forsure it was top. so i adjusted the valves. nothing (well maybe a little noise went away). i can deff hear it good from the top. put my ear directly on the oil pan, heard good noise there. so i pulled the pan and the rod caps off. everything looked good. spins fine. spun it shitloads wihtthe pan off cant hear or see anything making noise.
crank pulley looked fine when i put it on. it was on my previous motor. off JDM ITR motor.
no oil pressure gauge.
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LMA's?
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Flywheel or clutch bolts backing out maybe? Does it get faster with revs?
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LMA's?
low miles ITR's. i pushed down on all them on the last valve adjustment. no binding, and full range of motion. also louder than any LMA i have ever heard.
LMA's, slopped out bore, wrist pin
My shit makes a similar noise, not that loud, that lessens when it warms up and I was told it was either slappy pistons or slappy LMA's. Not too worried about it, I've raped it for 30k miles so far and it's gotten a little worse but I don't care it keeps taking it. I also have hells of blowby so I reckon it's slopped out bores.
has 200psi across on the compression test. i can feel a little blowby out hte VC.
as for confirming either of those? both looked fine, but didnt actually check. also not so much concerned. not looking to get that many miles out of this motor.
also noise doesnt seem to change at all stone cold, or after the fan has cycled a couple times.
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pull a plug wire while its running, see if the sound changes, do all cylinders one at a time.
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if its not LMA's, then it sounds like a wrist pin. are the pistons/rods/wrist pins new? if not i would really consider that. i had the problem once. took me forever to figure it out. i would have put money on it being a valve/LMA issue but it wasnt.
also, it was very difficult to feel the problem. if you closed your eyes and wiggled the piston on the rod you could feel it. it was VERY minimal but made a lot of noise. it also showed up measuring the wrist pin with calipers, but barely.
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timing belt tensioner mayb?
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pull a plug wire while its running, see if the sound changes, do all cylinders one at a time.
did that, both plugs and injectors. just runs on 3 lol...
if its not LMA's, then it sounds like a wrist pin. are the pistons/rods/wrist pins new? if not i would really consider that. i had the problem once. took me forever to figure it out. i would have put money on it being a valve/LMA issue but it wasnt.
also, it was very difficult to feel the problem. if you closed your eyes and wiggled the piston on the rod you could feel it. it was VERY minimal but made a lot of noise. it also showed up measuring the wrist pin with calipers, but barely.
pistons/rods are used. one piston/rod is questionable cuz it went to the machine shop to get swapped around. one had spun bearing the other had broken piston, made one good setup. all seemed to have good movement when removing the bearings while in the car. but dont have that much of a range of motion.
timing belt tensioner mayb?
its a bearing tensioner not hydrolic. havent had a person yet that has said it was possible for the noise to be that style tensioner. even teh vet techs at work.
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also, we just had the valvecover off the car while it was running. the noise is NOT coming from the head lol... slight tick maybe from one of the valves, but the noise isnt there. and everythign in there is getting oiled pretty good LOL...
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Probably a long shot, but you didn't happen to check rod side clearances did you?
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Probably a long shot, but you didn't happen to check rod side clearances did you?
they wiggle like everyother one i have installed lol
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so went for a drive with a buddy. at an idle its fuckin noisy even inside an integra. at low speeds >35ish you can hear it knocking away. but really at hwy speeds you cant hear it. under boost nothing. even under decell we really didnt notice it.
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all 4 pistons where running in that motor before. cant get a 100% answer, but there wasnt any noise till the motor spun a rod bearing. rod and crank came out of a motor that detonated a bunch of pistons/sleeve or something. crank was micro'ed, rod/piston swapped by machine shop. and like i said bearings inspected after running for a while.
nothing about the pistons/cylinders looked out of the ordinary upon build.
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i think its a piston/wrist pin issue... and plan to turn/drive it till it breaks or i build another motor :?:
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This:
so went for a drive with a buddy. at an idle its fuckin noisy even inside an integra. at low speeds >35ish you can hear it knocking away. but really at hwy speeds you cant hear it. under boost nothing. even under decell we really didnt notice it.
leads me to believe it is this:
i think its a piston/wrist pin issue...
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fuck, if it was that i would be almost tempted to pickup another piston/rod and slap the fucker in there......
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Just to toss this out there:
I have seen mention of "lightly lubing the piston assembly," which I don't agree with. I think that sometimes people forget how important it is to make sure that the wrist pins are well lubricated before the piston/rod combo goes into the block during assembly.
I would ASSume that you know better though.
If it is indeed a sloppy wrist pin, it might have just been worn out, not not necessarily an assembly mishap.
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fuck, if it was that i would be almost tempted to pickup another piston/rod and slap the fucker in there......
I would think if it was a wrist pin issue the noise would have changed when you were pulling plugs :-\
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After reading the post about the pistons and rods, I'm sure it's a warn wrist pin.
Does the sound go away at high vac crusing, like in the 15-20inhg?
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Mine has that same sound when cold, Not quite as bad as yours but its there. But once it warms up it goes away. So i think mine is my ptw clearance. Yours dose sound like a piston slap the never goes away. So what was you ptw clearance when you set it up? Im running mine at 35 thout. But Ive heard some slopped out vitaras that make that same kind of noise but still make a shit ton of power.
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If it dose its not enough for my def ass to hear it.
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After reading the post about the pistons and rods, I'm sure it's a warn wrist pin.
Does the sound go away at high vac crusing, like in the 15-20inhg?
idk, my gauge is JDM (greddy). and wasnt paying that much attention to it. but yeah, im gonna guess anything in the 10in-8psi range you cant hear the noise.
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fuck, if it was that i would be almost tempted to pickup another piston/rod and slap the fucker in there......
I would think if it was a wrist pin issue the noise would have changed when you were pulling plugs :-\
yes it usally does, thats why I wanted him to do that.
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i tried the plug wire thing with my car and the noise didnt go away. it sort of changed, but it also ran like shit with a plug not firing so its hard to say really
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fuck, if it was that i would be almost tempted to pickup another piston/rod and slap the fucker in there......
I would think if it was a wrist pin issue the noise would have changed when you were pulling plugs :-\
yes it usally does, thats why I wanted him to do that.
That is usually a rod bearing diag trick. Wrist pins do not have the luxury of oil pressure to dampen the noise.
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Dustin, if you have cam gears; the bolts/cap screws can poke through the back and rub the plastic cover. I've worked on 2 cars that did this, and the noise was very noticeable at idle like yours is.
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Dustin, if you have cam gears; the bolts/cap screws can poke through the back and rub the plastic cover. I've worked on 2 cars that did this, and the noise was very noticeable at idle like yours is.
stock gears, made the same noise with cover cut for gears (completely open) and with no valvecover on at all...
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Could it be possible the wrist pin is just slightly bent? I know some old articles I've read about OEM's switching to press-in pins list noise reduction as one reason. So even a slight change would create at least some noise. And since it's a cyclical noise, it more than likely is being caused at a certain point in rotation (one cylinder).
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Could it be possible the wrist pin is just slightly bent? I know some old articles I've read about OEM's switching to press-in pins list noise reduction as one reason. So even a slight change would create at least some noise. And since it's a cyclical noise, it more than likely is being caused at a certain point in rotation (one cylinder).
yeah i guess its possible, and really my thought at this point that the piston pin is bent or the piston slightly deformed binding on the pin?
but this piston/pin is OEM, and pressed already?
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Its the plastic cover behind the gears that make contact. Stock gears huh :-\
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Its the plastic cover behind the gears that make contact. Stock gears huh :-\
nope, see no contact..
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I just recalled someone saying their forged piston bent the wrist pin somethin fierce, and also cracked the piston - made a terrible racket but ran fine. I also recall a wiseco crack between the skirt and wrist pin hole after 50k boosted miles, making some clatter.
I'm just curious if it could be the clutch springs. Mine didn't sound exactly like that, but still a cyclical sound.
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makes no diff if the clutch is pushed in or not. its a LSD 6puck sprung disc with maybe 10k miles on it, and looked fine before putting in.
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also. today it was a little dry, and i had some road in front of me, so i laid into 3rd gear till probably 7500+rpms (on a shitty basemap). made it the rest of the way to work and back (another 60+miles) with no change in noise or anything else noticeable...
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im trying to track down another piston/rod, i might swap it out this weekend. pretty good chance i pull the pan/rod caps off again for giggles, along with pulling the crankpulley off to look at that.
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tech at work listened to it. (and has been hearing me talk about it) didnt have much to say, just looked like he was thinking, then made a comment about a waterpump, but still didnt even sound convinced himself?
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Did you try using a long screwdriver to listen to everything. move the tip around the engine and up your ear up to the handle and see where it gets loudest. Long shot and it sounds to loud to be it but, Maybe try taking the ditributor cao off ans seeing if the set screw came off the rotor button.
Or try putting the screwdrive against the pivot arm for the clutch and listening I had a sprung six puck with a few spit out springs making a noise somewhat like that.
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thing sounds like a diesel vw. deff a piston slap/rod issue
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UPDATED first post....
still makes noise... makes lots of power...
pulled out all the pistons, 3 looked used, one looked slightly abused...so i put in another used one lol... threw it back together... reused all parts... think thats #5 for the headbolts and #2 for the headgasket... and like 5+ times for the rod bolts...
pretty sure at this point that the cylinders are just out of round and it needs overboard... by someone else, im just gonna buy another fuckin motor sometime next spring/summer and make even more power...
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whats the full setup dustin?
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PTE 50trim .63 exhaust... cast log... 2.5 down/3exhaust, 2.0 hot/2.5 cold chargepipe, small cdm cooler, stock B18C1... PBTuning intake/tb... 10psi... LEED Tuned (CROME)... thats all thats relevant... i may make a post... probably not.
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Long shot, but have you removed the cam gears from the cams?
I've had loose cam gears/sloppy keyways before that rattle at low rpm but tighten up when you put some load on them...
Or has anyone seen a slopped out rocker before?
I'm just throwing around ideas... It's probably a wrist pin/egg bore deal though... run it till it fails...
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Long shot, but have you removed the cam gears from the cams?
I've had loose cam gears/sloppy keyways before that rattle at low rpm but tighten up when you put some load on them...
Or has anyone seen a slopped out rocker before?
I'm just throwing around ideas... It's probably a wrist pin/egg bore deal though... run it till it fails...
i have removed the cams, and crank pulley. all had solid keyways. at least when it was apart last time...
this whore makes it to spring, its getting some E85... like lets max out some 1000s/Walbro status :noel:
a B18C block isnt that hard to comeby. like my buddy just picked one up that puts my jewishness to shame, and it even has a VIN tag. but it also has a spun bearing and now he doesnt wanna run stock bore/hone after my motor LOL
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sounds like a ford/GM tensioner that is running out of adjustment lol
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Slight rattle at high idle and at different RPMS, more pronounced on decel? Check to make sure a cam key isn't being hammered flat, test with a known good VTEC solenoid. Probably the VTEC solenoid.
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Slight rattle at high idle and at different RPMS, more pronounced on decel? Check to make sure a cam key isn't being hammered flat, test with a known good VTEC solenoid. Probably the VTEC solenoid.
swapped VTEC solenoid. VTEC works, noise still there.
less pronounced on decel.
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oh and i had the cam gears off when the head was off earlier. forgot the fuckin back cover before puttin the cams in. :-X keyways and keys where legit.
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Uh, sir? No offense, and I hope you find the solution to this problem - or find out a long time from now it was a cosmetic noise of no consequence - but I am glad it's your car and not mine. :(
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honestly i have given up. with the swap of the VTEC solenoid it runs fine. so i will drive it till it blows up then part the motor out completely. in the spring i will be trying to pickup a built shortblock.
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*cough*wrist pin*cough*
edited cause the iphone has no idea what word i was really trying to type
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*cough*wring pin*cough*
:?:
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*cough*wring pin*cough*
:?:
:?:
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Wrist pin. i was posting from my phone
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Wrist pin. i was posting from my phone
:?: