:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Forced Induction => Topic started by: ApexSilver06MR on December 09, 2009, 01:48:17 PM

Title: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on December 09, 2009, 01:48:17 PM
saw these on another forum.  i have another block chillin here.  time for some ls rods and some of these

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi475.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Frr120%2Fvipersal%2FTurbo%2520Project%2FBielasyPistones.jpg&hash=bdb8f511da93439db184342dd8ac1a434b0f68ad)
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: 92CXyD on December 09, 2009, 01:55:11 PM
why p07's
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on December 09, 2009, 02:21:25 PM
ultra low compression for super high boost. 
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: 92CXyD on December 09, 2009, 02:31:46 PM
yeah but I keep find those more expensive than vitaras.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: zestyskater69 on December 09, 2009, 02:44:39 PM
Just curious what honda engine are the p07's out of? On the other forum did the op get any numbers with those pistons in & how's reliability so far?
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: ryan89crx on December 09, 2009, 02:52:57 PM
Just curious what honda engine are the p07's out of? On the other forum did the op get any numbers with those pistons in & how's reliability so far?
1992-1995 Honda Civic VX vtec-e motos

Wouldn't be bad with rebushed LS rods if you can find them for cheap
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: d112crzy on December 09, 2009, 03:57:45 PM
You probably couldn't get more than 300 out those.

The vitaras being used in everyones builds are semi forged. That is why they can handle lots of power, not because they're low compression.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Robb on December 09, 2009, 04:10:52 PM
You probably couldn't get more than 300 out those.

The vitaras being used in everyones builds are semi forged. That is why they can handle lots of power, not because they're low compression.

I partially disagree.  The vitaras (with stock length rods) low compression is what makes the D's significantly less likely to knock, along with the added benifit of making the combustion chamber a more efficient shape. Yes, they are stout, but thats not the main reason they work so well.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: d112crzy on December 09, 2009, 04:17:01 PM
I don't think the low compression is the main reason, but it does help substantially. This is not to say that a higher compression ratio is better. I do agree that a cr of around 8:1 is optimal for the small bore, but anything lower is just kind of pointless and will just cause shitty driveability off boost.

Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on December 09, 2009, 05:35:47 PM
Anyone driving a 7.5:1 d out of boost needs to grow some nuts

true. 

my single slam is at 8.6:1
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: 92CXyD on December 09, 2009, 05:36:32 PM
Anyone driving a 7.5:1 d out of boost needs to grow some nuts

true. 

my single slam is at 8.6:1

Mine is at 8.0:1  ;D
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Foowee on December 09, 2009, 05:41:26 PM
If you got some p07's already and can get a groove cut in the wristpin hole for spiral locks or c-clips I say rock 'em.  

It's just that vitaras are so damn cost effective.  $125 for a set w/rings ready to go onto aftermarket rods.  By the time you buy a set of po7's n get the groove cut I'm sure you'll have exceeded $125...  but if you got some free ones n access to a lathe, use em like cardinal uses boy pussy...
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: theidealone on December 09, 2009, 07:21:31 PM
You probably couldn't get more than 300 out those.

The vitaras being used in everyones builds are semi forged. That is why they can handle lots of power, not because they're low compression.

I was under the impression that they were just cast really well. Not "semi forged". And I was also under the impression that the Vitaras had strong ass ringlands, something stock Honda pistons do not...
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 09, 2009, 07:30:05 PM
VX pistons have about the same CR as Vitaras, but the ring land isn't as thick.  Just don't run out of octane (ping) and they should make good power.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: d112crzy on December 09, 2009, 07:51:14 PM
You probably couldn't get more than 300 out those.

The vitaras being used in everyones builds are semi forged. That is why they can handle lots of power, not because they're low compression.

I was under the impression that they were just cast really well. Not "semi forged". And I was also under the impression that the Vitaras had strong ass ringlands, something stock Honda pistons do not...

They're "semi-forged" according to FJT.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: 92CXyD on December 09, 2009, 07:54:04 PM
I think they are what is called High-Density Cast where there is a vacuum on the mold when the metal poured.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: shogun on December 09, 2009, 08:33:02 PM
we have done ls rods and p07, on a budget build pistons and rings were 85 dollars if i remember correctly, i just hope i can get 15 psi out of a he351cw without any issues, motor was going in today ill post videos once i get them
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 10, 2009, 12:49:07 AM
I think they are what is called High-Density Cast where there is a vacuum on the mold when the metal poured.

Pressure has nothing to do with the density of the solid or liquid phases.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: DmC on December 10, 2009, 12:53:09 AM
It's 25% compression 25% combustion chamber shape 50% the thicker ringlands that make vitara's hold up so well. 
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 10, 2009, 12:56:00 AM
It's 65% compression and 35% the thicker ringlands that make vitara's hold up so well. 

Fixed, because the combustion chamber shape is a function of the compression.  THat, and because I am an e-bully and want to push you around.   :evil:
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: DmC on December 10, 2009, 01:13:55 AM
It's 65% compression and 35% the thicker ringlands that make vitara's hold up so well. 

Fixed, because the combustion chamber shape is a function of the compression.  THat, and because I am an e-bully and want to push you around.   :evil:
Joseph I will tell Goforth that you cuss infront of women.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on December 10, 2009, 02:29:14 AM
It's 65% compression and 35% the thicker ringlands that make vitara's hold up so well. 

Fixed, because the combustion chamber shape is a function of the compression.  THat, and because I am an e-bully and want to push you around.   :evil:
Joseph I will tell Goforth that you cuss infront of dirty cambodian women.


fixed !!!
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 10, 2009, 02:30:10 AM
It's 65% compression and 35% the thicker ringlands that make vitara's hold up so well. 

Fixed, because the combustion chamber shape is a function of the compression.  THat, and because I am an e-bully and want to push you around.   :evil:
Joseph I will tell Goforth that you cuss infront of women.

FUCK YTOU! I cuss in front of his wife.


But never in front of sweet drity Cambodian women.  Mmmmm... Jay's sisters in law do something for me.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: BangBusMaster on December 10, 2009, 05:03:05 AM
You probably couldn't get more than 300 out those.

The vitaras being used in everyones builds are semi forged. That is why they can handle lots of power, not because they're low compression.

Not true.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: 92CXyD on December 10, 2009, 09:13:00 AM
I think they are what is called High-Density Cast where there is a vacuum on the mold when the metal poured.

Pressure has nothing to do with the density of the solid or liquid phases.

It does when you are trying to get any bubbles/blows out of the casting. ;D
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on December 10, 2009, 11:54:12 AM
It's 65% compression and 35% the thicker ringlands that make vitara's hold up so well. 

Fixed, because the combustion chamber shape is a function of the compression.  THat, and because I am an e-bully and want to push you around.   :evil:
Joseph I will tell Goforth that you cuss infront of women.

FUCK YTOU! I cuss in front of his wife.


But never in front of sweet drity Cambodian women.  Mmmmm... Jay's sisters in law do something for me.

ok.  sorry mr. Davis.  I take that back now.  Are we still niggaz?
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: turbob16hatch on December 10, 2009, 07:22:47 PM
Shit i'm running vitaras and ls rods in a d16a6 7.1:1 with a delta 272, fuck low end power.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on December 10, 2009, 09:24:40 PM
how much boost are you running there sir?
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 10, 2009, 10:15:47 PM
It's 65% compression and 35% the thicker ringlands that make vitara's hold up so well. 

Fixed, because the combustion chamber shape is a function of the compression.  THat, and because I am an e-bully and want to push you around.   :evil:
Joseph I will tell Goforth that you cuss infront of women.

FUCK YTOU! I cuss in front of his wife.


But never in front of sweet drity Cambodian women.  Mmmmm... Jay's sisters in law do something for me.

ok.  sorry mr. Davis.  I take that back now.  Are we still niggaz?

You're dark of skin, and I'm dark of soul.  Bros.   O0 :noel:
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Tom@OCZCTuning on December 10, 2009, 11:00:55 PM
Joey.  What is this I hear about you, Goforth and Dirty Cambodians????
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 11, 2009, 12:14:14 AM
Joey.  What is this I hear about you, Goforth and Dirty Cambodians????

Truth
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Tom@OCZCTuning on December 11, 2009, 12:28:31 AM
Joey.  What is this I hear about you, Goforth and Dirty Cambodians????

Truth

QFT NiggGaa wHhAAAA1!!!!
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: crttaz on December 11, 2009, 03:01:09 AM
oops

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi107.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm307%2Fbonespec%2Foops.jpg&hash=ad1b03937a029da4eb28bb63ee20a1e2d5051580)
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: DmC on December 11, 2009, 03:08:03 AM
oops

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi107.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm307%2Fbonespec%2Foops.jpg&hash=ad1b03937a029da4eb28bb63ee20a1e2d5051580)
Fuck yeah.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: d112crzy on December 11, 2009, 03:24:55 AM
Manley rods not so manly.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: turbob16hatch on December 11, 2009, 04:03:06 AM
how much boost are you running there sir?

Well boost controller on Nog only. but to be serious T25 10lbs (winter mode), t3 60trim 20+lbs (summer mode)
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: HiProfile on December 11, 2009, 04:03:29 AM
I think they are what is called High-Density Cast where there is a vacuum on the mold when the metal poured.

Pressure has nothing to do with the density of the solid or liquid phases.

As seen on the interweb, it must be true! Actually it's a real process, and I'm really thinkin that's one of the things they do to them. That or just a much better metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_casting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_casting)


BTW good job on that con rod. Did it eat a bearing, or just raw powa?
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: widebody93 on December 11, 2009, 06:24:18 AM
If you got some p07's already and can get a groove cut in the wristpin hole for spiral locks or c-clips I say rock 'em.  

It's just that vitaras are so damn cost effective.  $125 for a set w/rings ready to go onto aftermarket rods.  By the time you buy a set of po7's n get the groove cut I'm sure you'll have exceeded $125...  but if you got some free ones n access to a lathe, use em like cardinal uses boy pussy...
Fuck yo mother ya sum bitch
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: bigdaddyvtec on December 11, 2009, 07:40:04 AM
oops

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi107.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm307%2Fbonespec%2Foops.jpg&hash=ad1b03937a029da4eb28bb63ee20a1e2d5051580)

Fuck yes
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Ntrain2k on December 11, 2009, 08:14:55 AM
Manley rods not so manly.

Mainly

Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 11, 2009, 10:05:45 AM
I think they are what is called High-Density Cast where there is a vacuum on the mold when the metal poured.

Pressure has nothing to do with the density of the solid or liquid phases.

As seen on the interweb, it must be true! Actually it's a real process, and I'm really thinkin that's one of the things they do to them. That or just a much better metal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_casting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_casting)

I know what vacuum casting is.  It just doesn't change the density of the metal.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: 92CXyD on December 11, 2009, 10:36:27 AM
It does change the density of the casting because when you pour hot Aluminum it tend to trap O2 in the casting.

When gasses (industry term) there is a lot of pinhole voids.

So if you can degass the process there is vertually no gas bubbles trapped in the casting and the total density of the casting is greater.

Also if there is a forging process involved there the casting will further have slightly higher density.

Upon researching AC8A process used by YCP I found these interesting. BTW AC8A=>Al18B4O33

Whisker reinforced AC8A  ;D
http://www.springerlink.com/content/t048414kgn13g222/ (http://www.springerlink.com/content/t048414kgn13g222/) 
 http://www.springerlink.com/content/k6m3p01341635u37/ (http://www.springerlink.com/content/k6m3p01341635u37/)

The process involving forging (great read about the process)
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5972071.html (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5972071.html)
 
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 11, 2009, 10:41:41 AM
It does change the density of the casting because when you pour hot Aluminum it tend to trap O2 in the casting.

When gasses (industry term) there is a lot of pinhole voids.

Those are casting defects, the density of the metal itself never changes.

I know what you are saying, but listen.  I've had this semi-forged magic metal BS argument with someone else recently and they argue that the metal itself is changed.  It isn't any different, it was just handled better by that process.  That's all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: 92CXyD on December 11, 2009, 10:43:14 AM
It does change the density of the casting because when you pour hot Aluminum it tend to trap O2 in the casting.

When gasses (industry term) there is a lot of pinhole voids.

Those are casting defects, the density of the metal itself never changes.

your right the density of the metal never changes but the total density of the casting does when you get rid of the casting defects.

OK
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 11, 2009, 10:44:07 AM
You beat up my ninja edit.  I bow to you, Kung Fu Master.
Title: Re: Nevermind the Vitaras. Let me get some p07's
Post by: HiProfile on December 11, 2009, 06:59:22 PM
I never said anything about density, I just quoted it. If you cut into enough aluminum castings, you'll find those voids. Some in honda TB's are big enough to fit an actual rice grain into. You put holes in aluminum to lighten it, not strengthen it.

Temperature (heat treating, casting temp, etc), gas exchange, and alloying can drasticly change the structure of the metal itself. Look at cast iron. The difference between a Sikorsky rotor hub and a ordinary park bench are just a few simple tricks. At least that's the jist of what their engineer's memo told us.