:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Fabrication => Topic started by: HiProfile on March 09, 2009, 03:36:32 AM

Title: Very Fast E-Cutout! (MOAR PICS)
Post by: HiProfile on March 09, 2009, 03:36:32 AM
I've edited this post so Rick Pedophile at homemadeturbo can't pull any shit. The vids/pics stay the same, as I uploaded them to those sites BEFORE making my HMT thread.

Its rather simple. I used was a 65mm mustang throttle body, some microswitches, a double-pull double-throw relay ('dpdt'), a cheap 60" throttle cable, moved by an EF wiper motor. Time & material for me was still less than a slow-ass $150 cutout. The best part is my cutout's motor only draws power when moving, not when stopped. To activate it you simply switch the relay on. I just ground one terminal using an eCtune GPO and it fires open...

Well how fast is it? Watch my videos:

FYI here is the slower speed; the shaft spins with 50% more torque/speed on the higher level. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmT1XPW-aFE#lq)

Titled the ON-CAR test. Volume is messed due to auto-adjusing mic (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_2RlSZoplw#lq)

The reference $250+ wireless e-cutout that takes a full 5 seconds to open. FAIL. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HcDqoB47bg#lq)

NA B16 Fartcan vs my Turbo D16 e-cutout. There's a 2nd vid there with the cutout open the whole time over at youtube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jqDnD0pEu4#lq)


(Zipties aren't shown in this picture)
(http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/5237/complete01fq3.jpg)

99.9% Finished product. All that's left is a cover, and tabs for bolting it down.
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/174/cutoutfinishedsmall1.jpg)



Here's the circuit diagram that I came up with, hopefully the colors make it easy to deal with. The switches are normally-closed microswitches, I have them set to ~75% of the distance. In blue is the 3rd relay I use w/a delay cricuit to keep it open momentarily (~1sec), mainly between shifts when it's set to open at 60% throttle angle. The round wiper motor plug is viewed looking at the pins; the bottom-middle pin is connected for low speed, bottom-right for high-speed.

(http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3118/ecutoutcircuit04.gif)
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on March 09, 2009, 03:38:45 AM
you should use a shift knob with buttons on it....



thats good shit
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: d112crzy on March 09, 2009, 03:44:12 AM
Is this your post? If so, mind posting pictures of the electrical device you made to open it? That shit's pretty dope. You could make some good money off it if you ever decide to.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: ApexSilver06MR on March 09, 2009, 03:48:27 AM
RHMT Cutout on ebay for $150 shipped with a throttle body of your choice
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: 92CXyD on March 09, 2009, 08:28:02 AM
gangsta fuel tank heater. ;D

No seriousely I may need your help I have a valve that opens like that to route air around my SC14.
The problem is the valve was oroginally controlled by an ecu out of a toyota previa.

I may need figure out a way to run a solenoid like the one you are using.
Have the valve open up when the a/c style clutch is not engaged and the by-pass valve is electronical.

I do not want to use a vacumn actuator on that valve.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: G2 Racer on March 09, 2009, 10:46:17 PM
Thanks pretty fucking awesome I must say, how big is the TB bore?
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Atticus on March 10, 2009, 12:20:18 AM
Is this your post? If so, mind posting pictures of the electrical device you made to open it? That shit's pretty dope. You could make some good money off it if you ever decide to.


x2
i would love to see an electrical diagram

was going to make a manual leaver by the shifter on the passenger side.... but dam thats sick  :yes:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: HiProfile on March 10, 2009, 01:50:27 AM
I'll be posting pix and diagrams later, I'm just lazy. Electriclly its actually quite simple, just has to be adjusted right. The mustang TB is 65mm, virtually the same on all min-90's to early-00's ford V8's. The 65mm TB + stock exhaust piping is equal to a 3" pipe cross-section, although a FULL 3" exhaust is enough for 500whp. Right now its using eCtune to open the cutout above 75% throttle - automaticly. I do have overrides to open or keep it shut. A cheap nog using uberdata/BRE/etc could just use a 3-volt or 5-volt relay tied to the TPS; a smart nog would use a voltage compairator. :P

With the SC14 blower, are you going to twincharge it with a turbo, or use that valve as a vac bypass? If you're twincharging, a guy on H-T named rmcdaniels has tried it a few ways. He found that slowly opening it with a wastegate actuator after a set PSI works the best for response, IAT's, and power. Regardless, my junk is basicly a gearhead motor with an arm on it, pulling the cable.


$150 minus rhmt's cut would be tits, and still cheaper than any other cutout. :noel:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: 1Fast68 on March 10, 2009, 03:00:26 PM
good work :yes:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Rosario4124 on March 10, 2009, 04:27:11 PM
budget shit FTW  :noel:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: HiProfile on March 11, 2009, 04:09:15 AM
budget shit FTW  :noel:

Actually I wanted to use a regular cutout assembly, but nobody was selling a broke unit, and the companies never returned my emails. Turned out better in EVERY way.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: G2 Racer on March 11, 2009, 04:08:18 PM
Where's the wiring diagram?  :P
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: 92CXyD on March 11, 2009, 05:40:13 PM
I'll be posting pix and diagrams later, I'm just lazy. Electriclly its actually quite simple, just has to be adjusted right. The mustang TB is 65mm, virtually the same on all min-90's to early-00's ford V8's. The 65mm TB + stock exhaust piping is equal to a 3" pipe cross-section, although a FULL 3" exhaust is enough for 500whp. Right now its using eCtune to open the cutout above 75% throttle - automaticly. I do have overrides to open or keep it shut. A cheap nog using uberdata/BRE/etc could just use a 3-volt or 5-volt relay tied to the TPS; a smart nog would use a voltage compairator. :P

With the SC14 blower, are you going to twincharge it with a turbo, or use that valve as a vac bypass? If you're twincharging, a guy on H-T named rmcdaniels has tried it a few ways. He found that slowly opening it with a wastegate actuator after a set PSI works the best for response, IAT's, and power. Regardless, my junk is basicly a gearhead motor with an arm on it, pulling the cable.

Turbo and yeah i looked at rmcdaniels but my SC14 is mounted where a/c compressor was and I have it before the TB so I treat it like fast spooling turbo.


$150 minus rhmt's cut would be tits, and still cheaper than any other cutout. :noel:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Turbo242 on March 12, 2009, 12:27:54 AM
I had this idea a wile ago but the fab guy at our shop told me that the alu would melt after a while, but that shit sounded like it sealed great!!

my other idea was to use a "Jake Brake" or exhaust brake from a diesel, but those are $$$


I bought this, paid quite a bit ,but with my MBC i can set the boost  level and have it stay shut at 5lbs and open all the way up at 12lbs :yes:
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-ACS-010&Category_Code=BCS (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-ACS-010&Category_Code=BCS)
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: 92CXyD on March 12, 2009, 09:15:54 AM
I had this idea a wile ago but the fab guy at our shop told me that the alu would melt after a while, but that shit sounded like it sealed great!!

my other idea was to use a "Jake Brake" or exhaust brake from a diesel, but those are $$$


I bought this, paid quite a bit ,but with my MBC i can set the boost  level and have it stay shut at 5lbs and open all the way up at 12lbs :yes:
http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-ACS-010&Category_Code=BCS (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-ACS-010&Category_Code=BCS)

Nice that gave me some ideas I'll have to talk to my machine shop and welder but I might have something made like that. :evil: :yes: :evil:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: MantisX on March 12, 2009, 11:51:04 AM
I dont think thats a bad price at all considering what it does. The fuckers are out of stock though.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: marcj on March 12, 2009, 12:31:34 PM
i'm sure i've mentioned this before on another thread, but this is fuckin baller!
you should do a complete write up
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: HiProfile on March 13, 2009, 12:54:58 AM
I'll be posting pix and diagrams later, I'm just lazy.

 :yes:

Actually tonight I was taking pix for a DIY 3bar-into-stock-MAP-housing write-up similar to the old one by madmax. I'll get to it all, dunnn worray...


btw if you want the parts cost, $50 total:

$13 - EF wiper motor
$5 - screws & metal
$7 - cable
$20 - mustang TB
$5 - switches
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: SiFlyBy on March 15, 2009, 12:07:06 AM
I just picked up a 3" e-throttle body from a f-250 with a 5.4l engine. There is nothing wrong with it, it flips open in about 1/4 of a second. will probably use it in a future build. :noel:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Urban Indian on March 16, 2009, 04:06:09 PM
balin  :noel:. If my exhaust didnt flow so damn good.



I would use this
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Emperor on March 19, 2009, 04:42:23 PM
Quote
I just picked up a 3" e-throttle body from a f-250 with a 5.4l engine. There is nothing wrong with it, it flips open in about 1/4 of a second. will probably use it in a future build

what did they cost in usa?

e-Tb´s cost you a fortune in europe :o
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: foumer on March 25, 2009, 11:39:15 AM
Nice work.  I am thinking of making one but a little more simple.  Just grabbing a throttle body removing the spring and attach a wastegate actuator to it.  Like the one SP makes.  Might be cost a little more though.
(http://spracingonline.com/upload/files/1/sp3in_y.jpg) 
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Whitey on March 25, 2009, 04:36:29 PM
where did you buy the throttle cable at?
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Aero on March 27, 2009, 12:51:33 AM
I'm going to have to try making something like this for my DSM. 
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: HiProfile on March 27, 2009, 02:16:44 AM
where did you buy the throttle cable at?

the magical island of ebay

I duno who from, it was a while ago. Usually they're sold as minibike/gocart cables, motorcycle cables will have specific ends. I just shopped around and got a pair for $14 or something. Just don't get the cheap single-core deal, it has to be a flexable cable.

I also made a real cheap one with exhaust pipe, a plate, 2 special graphite-bronze bushings, nuts/shaft, and 1/16" teflon. Its kinda like MacGyver's version. I just got the wrong strength return spring, then borrowed the TB idea. I'll post up the pics for that one day, since you can then use any size pipe.


Aero I forbid you to even think about it until your engine is rebuilt and you have data on that vgt turbo! :yes: I'm sure afterwards your shit will be awsome.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Toysrme on March 27, 2009, 11:31:55 PM
second video (one that counted) is off youtube. fix plz

its back,
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: Aero on March 28, 2009, 12:02:21 AM

Aero I forbid you to even think about it until your engine is rebuilt and you have data on that vgt turbo! :yes: I'm sure afterwards your shit will be awsome.

Haha well it looks like Ill be moving the car again probably tuesday.  This place has 2 lifts, and shouldn't be any issues with the person who owns the place.   I've never gotten to use a lift before.  :noel:

I'll probably start working an it next weekend finally.  :yes:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: danz on March 29, 2009, 03:53:02 PM
need wiring diagram and part numbers.

i can solder like a mofo but im retarded when it comes to how shit works.

show me which wires to connect to what so i can make one.   







ill give you a quick tug.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: HiProfile on March 30, 2009, 04:39:26 AM
Actually you only have to crimp, given the right switches & relay. I'll try to get it up tomorrow, I found the original diagram.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: SirDragsAlot on March 30, 2009, 08:40:50 PM
can the throttle body handle the high exhaust temps?  look like a "hot" idea :yes:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: patsmx5 on June 13, 2009, 11:06:06 PM
Actually you only have to crimp, given the right switches & relay. I'll try to get it up tomorrow, I found the original diagram.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: danz on June 14, 2009, 03:34:25 AM
Actually you only have to crimp, given the right switches & relay. I'll try to get it up tomorrow, I found the original diagram.


tomorrow never comes if you keep calling it tomorrow.   :yes:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: BoostForLife on June 14, 2009, 04:00:04 AM
Actually you only have to crimp, given the right switches & relay. I'll try to get it up tomorrow, I found the original diagram.


tomorrow never comes if you keep calling it tomorrow.   :yes:
1 sec  usually takes a minute
1 min  usually take an hour
Tomorrow means next year.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: HiProfile on June 15, 2009, 05:09:04 PM
1 sec  usually takes a minute
1 min  usually take an hour
Tomorrow means next year.


Fuck you guys, I was "refining" it - triple relays, springs, etc. Plus I have a real job, I don't do sexual favors for crack like others here... :P

I actually found a solution to my BIGGEST problem - the damn motor would ground the whole case. In reverse (+12vdc to ground wire) it would occationally short out on the trunk metal. As a concesion, I'll get vids of my b16 fartcan next to my d16 cutout side by side. According to the guidelines above, hopefully in less than "5 minutes"...
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: BoostForLife on June 16, 2009, 12:43:48 PM
1 sec  usually takes a minute
1 min  usually take an hour
Tomorrow means next year.


Fuck you guys, I was "refining" it - triple relays, springs, etc. Plus I have a real job, I don't do sexual favors for crack like others here... :P

I actually found a solution to my BIGGEST problem - the damn motor would ground the whole case. In reverse (+12vdc to ground wire) it would occationally short out on the trunk metal. As a concesion, I'll get vids of my b16 fartcan next to my d16 cutout side by side. According to the guidelines above, hopefully in less than "5 minutes"...
I was just saying

Im actually going to do the same thing except for with a wastegate actuator.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: HiProfile on June 16, 2009, 03:02:15 PM
I know, just 'obeying the forms' we have here on rhmt. :-*

I'd actually suggest you use a vacuum actuator instead, so it opens just before 0psi or so. It will help quiken spool time. It will also likely pop open faster, since they use mostly vacuum to hold it closed.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: BoostForLife on June 16, 2009, 03:22:22 PM
I know, just 'obeying the forms' we have here on rhmt. :-*

I'd actually suggest you use a vacuum actuator instead, so it opens just before 0psi or so. It will help quiken spool time. It will also likely pop open faster, since they use mostly vacuum to hold it closed.
What oem manufacturers uses one of these? Opening it right before boost at WOT would definetely help, except for going up huge hills(noise), but i think an electronic solenoid could be integrated into the vacuum line to hold it closed and keep vacuum pull there to keep it closed.

Im thinking that newer 7-series BMWs have some shit like this right before their mufflers.

http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/vacuum-actuator-411.php (http://www.nostalgicairparts.com/air-conditioning/vacuum-actuator-411.php)
Found this one here, not many details about it, but it should work.
Only $9.99
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: HiProfile on June 16, 2009, 11:33:48 PM
They're only used for weird stuff like windshield wiper covers on old vettes or car doors for expensive cars (mercedes), but most recently would be for any supercharged GM car for the bypass. That link you found is probably the best deal you'll find. Otherwise you can try a dual-port WG actuator for both methods, but I don't think any OEM used them at any point.

If you don't mind a $25 solenoid on there, that's really the way to do it (if using air). You can use a good vac actuator and a small reservior, and flip it open via switch, ecu output, or hobbs switch. I was thinking about doing it that way at one point, along with a 'pancake' pneumatic air cylinder I had.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: BoostForLife on June 17, 2009, 02:41:44 AM
They're only used for weird stuff like windshield wiper covers on old vettes or car doors for expensive cars (mercedes), but most recently would be for any supercharged GM car for the bypass. That link you found is probably the best deal you'll find. Otherwise you can try a dual-port WG actuator for both methods, but I don't think any OEM used them at any point.

If you don't mind a $25 solenoid on there, that's really the way to do it (if using air). You can use a good vac actuator and a small reservior, and flip it open via switch, ecu output, or hobbs switch. I was thinking about doing it that way at one point, along with a 'pancake' pneumatic air cylinder I had.
Im about to part a 2000 Mercedes S430, that thing has more vacuum related parts than pretty much any other car. Every fucking thing from seats to locks to heater vents to door suction and freaking air suspension.
I'm pretty sure I can use some of that shit.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: ratcityrex on June 17, 2009, 10:08:27 AM
08 Zo6 have 2 3/8 vacuum cutots from the factory right b4 there rear muffler.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: BoostForLife on June 17, 2009, 01:02:28 PM
08 Zo6 have 2 3/8 vacuum cutots from the factory right b4 there rear muffler.
not going to find any wrecked though, i'll see what the mercedes in my garage will have to offer, not the white one that was at the dyno day, but same year and model though.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: HiProfile on June 18, 2009, 07:55:07 PM
neighbor's vette + jack + cordless sawzall. O0 O0
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: ratcityrex on June 18, 2009, 07:56:09 PM
neighbor's vette + jack + cordless sawzall. O0 O0

I think they are v-banded on  :yes:
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (updated)
Post by: HiProfile on June 22, 2009, 12:57:51 PM
Actually I looked them up, they are welded in 2 of the 4 exhaust tips, between the tip & muffler. And they're only about 1.5" wide. No wonder they add so much power... (http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/Smileys/classic/rolleyes.gif) I'd guess those blocked pipes bypass most of the baffels, so it might help a tad in their case.


Anyways, here's some pictures of the actual motor assembly I'm using. I changed from rubber bumpers to springs, as well as from aluminum to stainless for the motor's arm. The wiring looks like a rat's nest, but that's just from having so many wires needing to go everywhere. It was far worse before :-X

(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/174/cutoutfinishedsmall1.jpg)
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3783/cutoutfinishedsmall2.jpg)
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3808/cutoutfinishedsmall3.jpg)
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (MOAR PICS)
Post by: 1slow91hf on June 23, 2009, 11:33:21 AM
i might have to work on getting something like that built
just how fast is the response with the unit and how are you triggering it to open and close 
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (MOAR PICS)
Post by: HiProfile on June 23, 2009, 03:41:48 PM
I know the 1st page has a lot of crap, but you'd find out by reading it. It's a simple +12v input, sent via the ecu. Specifically, eCtune sends a signal to open it, and it returns the "open" signal to the ecu to switch maps. That means when I manually switch it open, or switch it off, it won't mistakenly switch or not switch the fuel/ign maps.

For a cheaper solution, you can use a relay that runs off 5 volts to trigger the 2 relays. A 5v relay will trigger at ~3v, so about 60% throttle possition if you power it by the TPS sensor.


Response time is instant, actual time to open comepletely is ~1/3 second. Not pictured is the delay I put on the 1st relay, it keeps it open for .1-20+ seconds based on the potentiometer setting. I use it to keep it open between shifts. I used the circuit on the right, with a 20-turn 10k pot, 470uF cap, and a TIP31 transisor. Just used the junk I had...

(http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/relay_i.gif)
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm#relay_i.gif (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm#relay_i.gif)
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (MOAR PICS)
Post by: HiProfile on June 16, 2010, 09:36:08 PM
Okay so that link has died, but there is a new page:

Power-Off Time Delay Relay
http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page2.htm#relay_i.gif (http://www.bowdenshobbycircuits.info/page2.htm#relay_i.gif)

I used the pic on the right, which uses a pot to adjust the extra time it stays open.

I'm also posting because that circuit died this year. I substituted a TIP31 for the 2n2222 and a 1n4001 for the 1n40002 diode, so I'm not sure what died exactly. I'd guess the cheap RadioShack transistor. I'm also guessing it could be the lower voltage diode I used and the big, inefficient, power-hungry CDM relay. Those fuckers get hot to the touch from it's internal coil, thats w/o current flowing through the contacts.

Anyways, the cutout still works fine when I bypass the delay circuit. I've put a few thousand miles on it and it's still working perfect. All I'd change is the stock return spring on the t-body (lower rate with more pre-load). None the less, it's fooled a couple cops so far. ;D

Edit: rebuilt the circuit, used a signal relay (11mA coil power vs 150mA for the 30A relay), and it works great. It uses a smaller cap, so the delay time is consistent.



One other thing: I'll eventually scrap this for a better idea. Someone saw this a while back, copied it, but used a servo instead. Oddly enough I parked next to him at the King Motorsports BBQ day last year. Silver 4rd EK with a 375whp GSR. All you need is a simple PWM controller ($5 in parts), and replace the adjustable pot with 2 fixed resistors. That will give the servo only 2 possitions. I tried it with my injector cleaner PWM controller, and I got a normal RC servo (standard 60* Futaba) to move a full 90* with authority...although it was a fairly sloppy signal & jittered (it drives injectors directly).
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout!
Post by: rudebwoy on June 18, 2010, 08:47:27 AM
can the throttle body handle the high exhaust temps?  look like a "hot" idea :yes:
I dont think it will, I have a QTP e-cutout and the pressure from the exhaust keeps bending it open, imagine if it was aluminum like the throttle body.
Title: Re: Very Fast E-Cutout! (MOAR PICS)
Post by: HiProfile on June 18, 2010, 11:17:02 PM
Erm, look at the dates. And my other most recent post.

A) It's been running 18 months (~12 with the electronics)

B) not even a rubber bearing shield has cracked from heat/flames. No gas assplosions even with high boost fire-shooting IGN-cut

C) it seals perfect with a little bit of carbon (water tight, puddled water explodes out when it opens)

D) the mustang TB has a really thick brass plate, maybe 3/32". There's enough backpressure to limit me to 12psi when closed & 100% EBC duty cycle.

E) QTP/DMH/Badlandz suck cattle cock compared to mine regarding: speed, sealing, reliability, price, space, EMS integration, replacement parts.


I don't list OEM quality, since only half of it will be OEM. Plus Ford quality is nothing to write home about. Even with my own warped 1/8" flange, a bit of copper RTV sealed it up perfect.