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[magik123]

I guess I'm a complete fuck up and cant do a timing belt on a B20/ITR head.  I set the cams to TDC, crank to TDC slide belt on adjust tension and crank always seems half a tooth off. I have done timing belts on other honda motors GSR, z6, zc never had a problem before any suggestions???

Tried:
TDC, Belt on, turn C.C 3 teeth on the cam, adjust tensioner tighten.
turning crank a few teeth clockwise before adjusting slack out of exhaust side of belt.
prying the hell out of the tensioner.
yelling at and bleeding on the timing belt after pick i was using to pry tensioner got me.

[widebody93]

I have had the same issues in the past. Its a pain but you will figure it out

[magik123]

is it normal for the slack to be on the exhaust side of the belt before you turn the cam three teeth? Timing belts should not give me this much trouble.

[snm95ls]

Apparently we need a timing belt write up.

 

[Eggylshatch]

r u using the right timing belt?

[magik123]

Apparently we need a timing belt write up.

 

yeah i feel like a fucking moron, 2 days and i cant do a timing belt.  Never had a problem before just wont go for me.  Its a B20 SB with GSR water pump (22teeth) GSR timing belt, ITR PR3-4 head, S2P2 cams with tuner gears.  I figure even if the heads been milled i shouldnt be so far off, maybe im wrong.  I assembled the head wonder if i could have done something wrong that could cause this 

[snm95ls]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

Personally, I like to set the cam gears where they should be, turn the crank clockwise back form TDC just a hair, then wrap the timing belt.  After that, turn CCW about 3-4 teeth on the cam gears, tighten the tensioner.  Done.

[magik123]

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2296920
looks almost exactly like this when I line up TDC on the crank.  I think the problem is the slacks on the exhaust side of the belt when i put it on, so when I go to turn the 3-4 teeth on the cam the initial turn puts me 1/2 tooth off on the crank b4 the cams start spinning if that makes sence 

EDIT: reading that thread makes me think I need to keep trying the same damn things I've been doing.

[snm95ls]

That is exactly one crank tooth off.

[Jorsher]

I used to have trouble getting the belts in time and it would take me a couple tries.  If it's one tooth off when you tighten the tensioner, set it back a tooth before putting the belt on.

Lately I've been able to get them in time on the first try every time by simply loosening the tensioner half a turn, lining everything up, putting the belt on, turning 3 teeth, and tightening the tensioner...

[magik123]

if i turn the crank one tooth past TDC its off the other way. Turn the cams a tooth from TDC and it somehow ends up the same as b4, ill keep fuckin with it until i can get a degree kit whichever comes first.

[Joseph Davis]

Milling, decking, the sliiiightly different deck height of an LS/B20 vs GSR, adds up to a normal every day 1.5-2.0 degrees off on your average B-series.

[magik123]

K so here's how it looks
Lined up:



slack on Exhaust side


3 teeth for adjustment


cam lined up, crank out



One more question, if im going to degree these in wouldn't the starting point be to have everything set at the marks then adjust from there, or does it not matter as long as I get everything opening closing at the specs on the cam sheet?  I need someone who knows what they are doin to come and hold my hand 


I now wonder if I should trust my head assembly when I cant put a timing belt on, check this out tho not to shabby i think,

one of these on a DOHC Vtec head not to easy if possible


thought maybe this 02 socket would work

but the opening would keep the retainer from compressing down flat or come shooting out ...

just then my old SK standard sockets started looking like they would really like to be used again,

[Joseph Davis]

Looks like you're the usual 1.5-2 degrees out.  For an FI B-motor I'd put stockers back on there and sell the adjustables as they simply make power and while you can shift the powerband around on the dyno the car stays the same speed at the track. 

For a NA motor leave the gears zero'd out, do an initial tune at that setting, and then start playing with them on the dyno to shape your powerband where it needs to be for best power.  Who gives a fuck where true zero is when the cam gears won't be there once you've tuned it?  Nice thing is, for these motors, best peak power is usually best midrange power, and within ~3 wtq of best low end.

[magik123]

im gonna go ahead and degree them in, and stop trying to take the shortcut... even if i still have to adjust them a bit i feel more comfortable that way.  The cams are S2P2's so I dont think 0-0 will be very friendly  .  At 4o seperation i had alittle more than .40 between em.  Its a gay ass NA build I'm throwing together because I'm tired of trying for greatness and getting failure... I figure if I start with failure I cant get much worse.

[jarebear667]

im gonna go ahead and degree them in, and stop trying to take the shortcut... even if i still have to adjust them a bit i feel more comfortable that way.  The cams are S2P2's so I dont think 0-0 will be very friendly  .  At 4o seperation i had alittle more than .40 between em.  Its a gay ass NA build I'm throwing together because I'm tired of trying for greatness and getting failure... I figure if I start with failure I cant get much worse.

what i did but f23/h22 head
i had this problem also on that just took a few tries to do it and bam it was on perfect but it was on a stand. and you shouldnt have that kinda slack on the exhaust side.

[magik123]

well for an update it made....



It made 220/164 with a gsr head, big tube hytech replicas, the rest was the same on Jeff Evan's dyno so hopefully the shootout numbers are close. Interestingly it showed no gains from ebay shortram, to 3" velocity stack, to homemade headlight cut-out lol....




maybe a set of big tube replicas instead of the small tubes I have, and hopefully the 3" intake will make some differance from the 2 3/4".

[snm95ls]

cam lined up, crank out

I wonder how far off the mark for the crank gear is when the teeth are lined up, not the poorly marked lines.

Granted, it doesn't matter so much with an adjustable gear, but it kind of amazes me how poorly aftermarket cam gears seem to marked.  That line means jack shit, the tooth is what actually indexes in the timing belt.

[magik123]

just realized I dont think the set up is posted so...

B20 RS machine ITR replicas 11.7:1 or something, with Probe I-beam rods
My old DSM 450s
ITR head supertech VT, S2P2 Cams w/ S2 Tuner gears
Hytech small tube replicas got my 3" thermal back  ;D
PBT 74mm TB, spacer, and ported AEBS manifold also fingered by Chris M

I'll take some more pics tommorow or something, but really who cares its N/A

[98vtec]

shits weak.

[chris]

B20vtec all motor builds are still nasty and I love all motor stuff. I have a b16b I have been working on going in one of my crx's.

[magik123]

Chris this throttle response is something I have never felt in a honda before,  paired with the Type R trans this shit is a neck snapper for a fwd.  Thanx for the awesome work yet once again.  Maybe I'll throw some spray through her system when I dont care about it blowing up again lol.

[chris]

Yeah its funny how people will continue to doubt aggressive tapered throttle bodies. They work on the flowbench and work in real life but people will continue to claim that because it has the same size plate it will make no difference. BOOOOOOOOOOO


Glad to see it up and running and take pics. Im going to be doing a pretty nice size update on my website of customers etc would like it on there.