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[glustic]

Are you using brass or plastic nipples? I would try and use brass nipples if you aren't, those plastic nipples break easily. Try and remove the vac manifold and run your lines off the I'm.

[ifly87]

The tracking info for the WG say's it'l be here tomorrow. I was running the WG pressure sorce from a vac manifold going to one of the nipples on the skank 2 IM. I welded in a steel bung into my charge piping about 3" from the turbo and the proplem persists. Hopefully the WG shows up before I have to go in to work tomorrow so I can stick it on and i'll update the thread. I'm upset because the more I read the more I have a hankerin that its the turbocharger, just being poorly sized for this engine. I'm ready to buy another turbo but I want to be certian its the correct size for my needs.

[ifly87]

So the Fed-Ex guy dropped off my Tial WG with a 1 bar spring in it about an hour ago. I stuck it on the car and took it for a few quick rippers. The WG opened at about 14psi and held perfectly. Now I just have to start upping the boost and hope it stays working this well.

I have a homemade boost controller, and another manufactured one with a wheel on the top, both have given me problems so i'm leary about putting them on. What MBC's or EBC's would you suggest that work good at 20-30psi?

I'm off to work but when I get the boost upped I'll throw up some video's.

[glustic]

So the Fed-Ex guy dropped off my Tial WG with a 1 bar spring in it about an hour ago. I stuck it on the car and took it for a few quick rippers. The WG opened at about 14psi and held perfectly. Now I just have to start upping the boost and hope it stays working this well.

I have a homemade boost controller, and another manufactured one with a wheel on the top, both have given me problems so i'm leary about putting them on. What MBC's or EBC's would you suggest that work good at 20-30psi?

I'm off to work but when I get the boost upped I'll throw up some video's.

Something name brand.

[boosted 00 black si]

told u 

[ifly87]

Ok, well put a "turbosmart" boost controller on it, and at ANYTHING past about 15psi the bitch still flutters. I thought it was fixed because before at 14psi it would overshoot it, surge a second then come back to 14. With the new Wastegate it boosts up to 14psi, and holds steady. Now anytime I try to increase the boost pressure at all, the thing just flutters like crazy. I'm buying a new turbo and i'm buying an ebay t3/to4e .63 57 trim. I've seen many many people run  those turbo's on their vitara setups and they work just fine. With the time and money I've put in this thing trying to fix the surging its worth the $150 or $200 or whatever they are just to see if it fixes it.

[boosted 00 black si]

i would try changing the turbo as well

[runsfromdacops]

if your useing a ebc and it has a boost cut like a blitz or somthing like that. it could have the boost cut set to close to the boost you want. mine did the same thing set to run 20psi had the boost cut on the ebc to 22psi and it would surg/flutter from 16-19 psi. it took me soooo long to find the problum.

-alex

[HiProfile]

Are you running a dedicated vac manifold off a large port, such as the brake booster nipple? I've seen many people with problems because they tee'd in to the FPR line for both BOV and WG. I've seen a boost gauge flutter (hundred times a second) from 0psi to 20psi on a 10psi spring because of that.

The only other thing I can think of is you have a partial leak. It could be a weak coupler that seals only to 14psi, opens at higher boost, bleeds & reseals at low boost. That would do the whole spike, drop, reboost thing. Get a pressure tester rigged up with $5 in pvc fittings (google it) and a valve stem, then put 20psi through it. Remember to put buttonhead screws in the pvc fittings in the spots you'd have a beadroll, otherwise after 15psi they WILL blow off.

[ifly87]

Are you running a dedicated vac manifold off a large port, such as the brake booster nipple? I've seen many people with problems because they tee'd in to the FPR line for both BOV and WG. I've seen a boost gauge flutter (hundred times a second) from 0psi to 20psi on a 10psi spring because of that.

I have a dedicated line straight from the chargepiping about 3" after the turbo for the wastegate. Total there is probably less than a foot of hose from the hole, through the boost controller, back to the wastegate.

The only other thing I can think of is you have a partial leak. It could be a weak coupler that seals only to 14psi, opens at higher boost, bleeds & reseals at low boost. That would do the whole spike, drop, reboost thing. Get a pressure tester rigged up with $5 in pvc fittings (google it) and a valve stem, then put 20psi through it. Remember to put buttonhead screws in the pvc fittings in the spots you'd have a beadroll, otherwise after 15psi they WILL blow off.

I refabricated a whole new set of chargepiping, although I dont think a leak is the problem I was thinking about trying that eirlier today.

if your useing a ebc and it has a boost cut like a blitz or somthing like that. it could have the boost cut set to close to the boost you want. mine did the same thing set to run 20psi had the boost cut on the ebc to 22psi and it would surg/flutter from 16-19 psi. it took me soooo long to find the problum.

-alex

I'm running a MBC, tried 2 mbc's actually and 1 EBC with the same results.

Purchased a new turbo today so I'll update when it shows up hopefully soon.

[d-rail]

Don't know if this has been listed but I've seen cheap lines ran to a wastegate cause issues because they'd collapse and wouldn't flow correctly

[glustic]

It has to be wastegate related.

[turbob16hatch]

Measure the wheels when you get time. that will tell you the numbers to get trim.

Why is this the hardest thing for you to do? you haven't measured the wheels so you have no idea if it's the turbo and you bought a new one?

[Aero]

Without seeing a video it sounds like compressor surge to me. I know on DSM's, 57 trim compressors are known to cause surge issues with some peoples setups.

Does the fluttering happen all the way to redline at that boost level?

A boost leak shouldn't cause it, in fact a boost leak should help prevent it by moving flow to the right on the map away from the surge line.

[HiProfile]

A d16z6 causing even a t3 to surge is like Buk having a full year that nothing went wrong in his life. On paper it sounds like a reasonable explaination, but it is very hard to imagine that actually being the case. I've seen SRT-4 guys have 57trim's when they used a .48ar but not with a .63ar housing. Good idea though, and I wouldn't totally discount it here. WHo knows, maybe this is a weird hybrid - t25 turbine, t2 compressor, and t3 housings...

[92CXyD]

A d16z6 causing even a t3 to surge is like Buk having a full year that nothing went wrong in his life. On paper it sounds like a reasonable explaination, but it is very hard to imagine that actually being the case. I've seen SRT-4 guys have 57trim's when they used a .48ar but not with a .63ar housing. Good idea though, and I wouldn't totally discount it here. WHo knows, maybe this is a weird hybrid - t25 turbine, t2 compressor, and t3 housings...

Could be the CDM turbo is junk.

Strap a Holslut on be done.

[ryan89crx]

My turbo was/is a legit Garrett/Airresearch and it was doing the same thing. It was also definitely not undersized for the motor...t3/t4 .48/.60 60 trim

[ifly87]

Measure the wheels when you get time. that will tell you the numbers to get trim.

Why is this the hardest thing for you to do? you haven't measured the wheels so you have no idea if it's the turbo and you bought a new one?

I said back in the thread I found the paperwork from when I bought it from blaast its a 57 trim. .63ar exhaust housing and .70ar compressor housing.


With this topmount manifold its a PITA to take the turbo off, so yeah, if its comming off to check the wheels a different turbo is going on.

[ifly87]

Without seeing a video it sounds like compressor surge to me. I know on DSM's, 57 trim compressors are known to cause surge issues with some peoples setups.

Does the fluttering happen all the way to redline at that boost level?

A boost leak shouldn't cause it, in fact a boost leak should help prevent it by moving flow to the right on the map away from the surge line.

Yeah its sounding like compressor surge to me too, I posted a vid on page 1 but its a shitty vid. When it happens it only happens under a heavy load, so when the tires break loose the boost settles and stays where its supposed to, as I get up in 3rd and 4th the surge gets much worse. I have noticed it does seem to go away once I'm up at like 7,000 rpm, and depending on what gear i'm in it will settle back down if I rev it up to 8.

[ifly87]

Ok, Got the new turbo yesterday, and threw it on today. Shitty thing is my charge piping is all 2.5in and the new turbo's outlet is only 2" not 2.5" like the last and I dont have a 2-2.5in coupler laying around so I am going to have to find one, hopefully I can find one locally, if not I already ordered one off the interwebz. I thought I would at least post a picture of the current setup, I took this today, just after sticking the ebay turbo on. I made all the chargepiping from bends purchased from mandrel-bends  but do not have them powder coated yet. Anyway here's a pic. Hopefully I will be able to get a coupler and try it out today or tomorrow, and I'll update the thread again.

[turbob16hatch]

Measure the wheels when you get time. that will tell you the numbers to get trim.

Why is this the hardest thing for you to do? you haven't measured the wheels so you have no idea if it's the turbo and you bought a new one?

I said back in the thread I found the paperwork from when I bought it from blaast its a 57 trim. .63ar exhaust housing and .70ar compressor housing.


With this topmount manifold its a PITA to take the turbo off, so yeah, if its comming off to check the wheels a different turbo is going on.

You want to show me where a 57 trim is EVER in a .70 a/r compressor housing? that lead me to beleave it could have some fucked up turbine wheel.

Now that it is off, post up all the measurments.

[ratcityrex]

What spring do you have in your bov? I was looking at the pic and it dosent look like its the adjustable style of bov. My guess is that its blowing open the line to your wg. How big it the vaccume line to your bov? Maybe upgrade to a 1/4" line if its small like a 1/8" line so the added volume in the line will help hold the bov closed? Just a guess. 

[ifly87]

You want to show me where a 57 trim is EVER in a .70 a/r compressor housing? that lead me to beleave it could have some fucked up turbine wheel.

Now that it is off, post up all the measurments.

http://blaastperformance.com/index.php

The I just had the turbine housing off, I will post up the measurements later. From the looks of it compared to other .64ar exhaust housings the inducer of the turbine wheel is TINY, so yeah it could be some "fucked up turbine wheel"

What spring do you have in your bov? I was looking at the pic and it dosent look like its the adjustable style of bov. My guess is that its blowing open the line to your wg. How big it the vaccume line to your bov? Maybe upgrade to a 1/4" line if its small like a 1/8" line so the added volume in the line will help hold the bov closed? Just a guess. 

Its a Tial BOV, it is adjustable and it is opening fine, this compressor surging issue is at WOT though not BOV related.

[turbob16hatch]

I just looked up there "57 trim" It have some wierd .70 a/r comp housing and a damn stg1 turbine wheel. If this is what you have then that would explain surging i would assume. that is a very small wheel for such a large compressor/housing.

this is a stg1 wheel in a stg3 housing (not centered)

[ratcityrex]

Its a Tial BOV, it is adjustable and it is opening fine, this compressor surging issue is at WOT though not BOV related.

That might be your problem. If it dosent have enugh seet pressure that when you are at wot, the air in the charge pipe is blowing it open and bleading off air, and then it closes and buids back up and then opens. Like a fluttering. Like compressor surge. Since it is adjutable you should crank it down and make a shit ton of seat pressure and see if its holding the 20 psi in the pipes. Or pull your charge pipe off and pressurise the charge pipe and see if its blowing open your bov.

[ifly87]

I just looked up there "57 trim" It have some wierd .70 a/r comp housing and a damn stg1 turbine wheel. If this is what you have then that would explain surging i would assume. that is a very small wheel for such a large compressor/housing.

this is a stg1 wheel in a stg3 housing (not centered)

My turbine housing had a small crack in it, so I tried another housing (stg 3) and it looked exactly like the picture, because I do only have a stg 1 turbine wheel, the new turbo has a stg 3 turbine wheel so I guess we will see if it helps. I will still get the measurements off the wheels and post them up, but I wont be back home to do so until tomorrow at the earliest.

[ratcityrex]

what spring do you have in your bov? I know that the tial have different rating spring depending on how much boost you are gona run.

[ifly87]

That might be your problem. If it dosent have enugh seet pressure that when you are at wot, the air in the charge pipe is blowing it open and bleading off air, and then it closes and buids back up and then opens. Like a fluttering. Like compressor surge. Since it is adjutable you should crank it down and make a shit ton of seat pressure and see if its holding the 20 psi in the pipes. Or pull your charge pipe off and pressurise the charge pipe and see if its blowing open your bov.

It is seating fine, it was doing the same thing with the HKS BOV I had on it before. I cant wait to fire it up with this new turbocharger, I have a strong hankerin it was the problem.

what spring do you have in your bov? I know that the tial have different rating spring depending on how much boost you are gona run.

That I do not know, but it is tight with no pressure behind it, even with the engine at idle it is still not open but moves easily. At low boost (under 5psi) the BOV does not open, and I am fine with that because I have a 14psi spring in the WG anyway. It opens when I shift or let off the throttle when the boost is up. This BOV really appears to be a quality unit I really think its operating correctly and my issue does not lie with this.

[Aero]

Its a Tial BOV, it is adjustable and it is opening fine, this compressor surging issue is at WOT though not BOV related.

That might be your problem. If it dosent have enugh seet pressure that when you are at wot, the air in the charge pipe is blowing it open and bleading off air, and then it closes and buids back up and then opens. Like a fluttering. Like compressor surge. Since it is adjutable you should crank it down and make a shit ton of seat pressure and see if its holding the 20 psi in the pipes. Or pull your charge pipe off and pressurise the charge pipe and see if its blowing open your bov.

I believe the Tial BOV's springs are chosen based on idle vacuum rather than boost level being run.

To the OP, is there anything else tapped into the line that runs to the BOV? If pressure is bleeding off to the BOV diaphram it will blow open at WOT and higher boost.  The pressure is most of what holds it shut under boost rather than the spring.

Will be interesting to see whether the turbo fixes it.

[turbob16hatch]

I just looked up there "57 trim" It have some wierd .70 a/r comp housing and a damn stg1 turbine wheel. If this is what you have then that would explain surging i would assume. that is a very small wheel for such a large compressor/housing.

this is a stg1 wheel in a stg3 housing (not centered)

My turbine housing had a small crack in it, so I tried another housing (stg 3) and it looked exactly like the picture, because I do only have a stg 1 turbine wheel, the new turbo has a stg 3 turbine wheel so I guess we will see if it helps. I will still get the measurements off the wheels and post them up, but I wont be back home to do so until tomorrow at the earliest.

DING DING DING, we have a winner.

if you have a stg1 turbine with a 57 trim compressor with a LARGE .70 a/r houisng that asking for surge. the large housing allows the turbo to spool up faster then normal and the stg1 turbine is tiny and not matched to the compressor wheel.

if i would guess the turbo just spools up to fast and stalls the comp wheel.  :yes: