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[Doug]

teaching people to live better so they don't get sick in the first place.

And we have a winner. 

or we've found a new issue: how do you tell ay-'murricans' that they need to learn to live better because our current lifestyle is destroying us? if you allow complete freedom to decide, it's going to keep going exactly the direction we're headed now.

And yet that is perfectly fine as that is the benefit of freedom. I suppose we should execute marshal law and become a communist tyrant based gov also?

do you create financial incentives for people to live better? someone is going to bitch that that is redistribution of wealth.

I would love to know how you would do this. The premise of it makes no sense. Who is going to decide what is healthy and what isn't? Tobacco, food products, alcohol, drugs (legal and non), activities, education, area you live etc etc, as you see it starts to snowball on what is "healthy". Not only that buy when there is a system setup this way do you honestly think it's going to be to better the people? No; it's going to be to line the pockets of the gov and corporations.

do you create restrictions on foods we know to be dangerous? someone will bitch that that is taking away r fREEEdUMz1!!lol.

We have plenty of restrictions on foods that are dangerous. You can have the "safest" food in the world only available and people will still be in the shape we are today. We as a society have become lazy and convenient reliable.

 do you break up corporate conglomerates whose only interest is to sell you as much of what they have, and produce that stuff as cheaply as possible regardless of whether it's harmful or not? someone will bitch that you're a socialist and you want to take away people's choice.

How are you going to control what a company produces and how it produces it? Who would be in charge of such a regulatory commission? Back again to the point up top; in the end no benefit will be had except to line the crooked's pockets.

what do you do when people have demonstrated time and time again that they cannot make the right choices to maintain their health?
you can try to educate people on healthy choices and what we understand to be the science behind our current dilemma. BUT, people will bitch that it's a scam, that we don't really understand anything, that we're just trying to tell people how to live- they'll find some "expert" that agrees with their point and consider that definitive proof that everyone else is full of shit.*

Do you lack the understanding the we as a people just don't care? Seriously there is no big scandal hiding the unhealthy choices we make everyday. EVERYONE knows them; the fact is we simply don't give two shits. Point being: Cigarettes kill half a million people each year and it's a known fact they cause cancer. Want to guess how many Americans smoke?

that's the real problem: there is no solution that a majority will ever agree on. at some point, a "leader" needs to tell all the stupid children to sit the fuck down and shut up and steer the failboat in another direction and see what happens.

That "leader" wouldn't be a leader for very long. That isn't the American way, and if he was in the position to where he could cause influence the system of check and balances would weed his thoughts out quickly.


*there was a study a few years back that found the viewers/listeners of fox news were significantly MORE likely to believe a false story/information if it fit their beliefs than people who listened to NPR. they were also less willing to come to terms with the fact that they had been duped. they would  rather continue believing something that was just shown to them to be wrong, than admit that they were wrong for believing it.

That's again we as a people. People don't like being wrong. That study plays largely on the fact we are a visual learning people. We believe what we see to automatically be truth as it's the normal process of learning.

[buk9tp]

I finger fucked Doug's mom's anus, then had Doug lick my fingers clean.

[kgx]

And yet that is perfectly fine as that is the benefit of freedom. I suppose we should execute marshal law and become a communist tyrant based gov also?

i agree, up until the point where someone exercising their freedom to be a fucking slob starts costing me money. you can quip slippery slope fallacies all day long, but it doesn't change the fact that when people make decisions that significantly affect others negatively, a line should be drawn. why do you think we pay policemen to ticket us when we speed? we are allowed the freedom to make that decision, but there's a penalty to pay when it has the potential to hurt others.

I would love to know how you would do this. The premise of it makes no sense. Who is going to decide what is healthy and what isn't? Tobacco, food products, alcohol, drugs (legal and non), activities, education, area you live etc etc, as you see it starts to snowball on what is "healthy". Not only that buy when there is a system setup this way do you honestly think it's going to be to better the people? No; it's going to be to line the pockets of the gov and corporations.

the premise makes perfect sense, and it would be fairly easy to implement. 1. sales tax inversely proportional to nutritional value for foods (index based on total calories, grams of sugar, grams of fiber, grams of fat, etc). 2. use additional sales tax from unhealthy foods to subsidize healthy foods, making them the more financially appealing choice. honestly, one of the reasons why americans are so overweight is that shit food is substantially cheaper than good food.

Do you lack the understanding the we as a people just don't care? Seriously there is no big scandal hiding the unhealthy choices we make everyday. EVERYONE knows them; the fact is we simply don't give two shits. Point being: Cigarettes kill half a million people each year and it's a known fact they cause cancer. Want to guess how many Americans smoke?

six?

my understanding is that when people 'don't care' to a big enough degree that their complacence affects others negatively, we should do something. i merely asked questions above, pointing out that someone will inevitably find somethign to bitch about (someone sure did, didn't they?).

this kind of touches on something i talked about in one of the toyota threads- dumbfuck drivers kill more than 5 times more people each year than drunk drivers, yet we tolerate dumbfucks and crucify drunks, despite dumbfucks being a bigger threat, which brings me back to...

And yet that is perfectly fine as that is the benefit of freedom. I suppose we should execute marshal law and become a communist tyrant based gov also?

you'd be surprised how quickly 'freedom' evaporates when you're 600lbs, bankrupt and dragging everyone else down with you.

[Joseph Davis]

one of the reasons why americans are so overweight is that shit food is substantially cheaper than good food.

Mildly disagree, mostly in the respect that I think the emphasis should be elsewhere.  While that is a contributing cause, the sole reason why Americans are overweight is lack of thrift and self-denial.  This same gluttony is universally applied in our culture and also caused the whole economic reset we're currently enjoying right now.

That said, good food costs.  I could deal hunt and have a somewhat repetitive diet or I could try to mix deals with variety -  I do the latter.  I cook on average 1.2 meals per day for me and the kid, and rarely buy junk food or in fact any snack foods aside from some fruit (cheap apples/bananas).  I spend ~$450-550 a month doing just that.  I don't buy over salted preservative laden shit in boxes, and I pay for it.

[Jorsher]

honestly, one of the reasons why americans are so overweight is that shit food is substantially cheaper than good food.

I wouldn't go that far.  American society is about getting what you want, and shitty food is what most people want.  Society also says fatties are disgusting, but I think most people prefer to eat the junk for the instant satisfaction over the long-term exercise to lose a little weight, assuming they work out enough to outpace the eating habits.

Definitely agree that healthy food costs more than shit food.  Hell, even look at beverages.  Soft drinks are significantly cheaper than good ol milk or juice.  Fortunately I was blessed with a metabolism that I cannot overpower, even when I've tried.

this kind of touches on something i talked about in one of the toyota threads- dumbfuck drivers kill more than 5 times more people each year than drunk drivers, yet we tolerate dumbfucks and crucify drunks, despite dumbfucks being a bigger threat, which brings me back to...

I'm possibly missing your point but I don't see how that's a good analogy...  There are a shitload more dumbfucks driving than drunks, so it's not surprising they kill more.  Also drinking and driving is a choice.  I guess stupidity is to a point also, but I believe with all my heart that a majority of people are just naturally stupid and can't help it.

[patsmx5]

one of the reasons why americans are so overweight is that shit food is substantially cheaper than good food.

Mildly disagree, mostly in the respect that I think the emphasis should be elsewhere.  While that is a contributing cause, the sole reason why Americans are overweight is lack of thrift and self-denial.  This same gluttony is universally applied in our culture and also caused the whole economic reset we're currently enjoying right now.

That said, good food costs.  I could deal hunt and have a somewhat repetitive diet or I could try to mix deals with variety -  I do the latter.  I cook on average 1.2 meals per day for me and the kid, and rarely buy junk food or in fact any snack foods aside from some fruit (cheap apples/bananas).  I spend ~$450-550 a month doing just that.  I don't buy over salted preservative laden shit in boxes, and I pay for it.

A lot of people think that shit food is cheaper. It is, but it's not that much more expensive for healthier stuff if you try/educate yourself on cheap healthy stuff. But I agree with JD that the american mindset is also a part of the problem. Education just goes a long way.

[Joseph Davis]

Cheap healthy stuff is bland.  If I'm going to cook, it will have flavor deriving from natural goodness instead of from grease, butter, and salt.

[Jorsher]

Despite it not really mattering what I consume, I still do try to eat somewhat healthy.  I don't go much out of my way for it, but I eat healthy when I can...

There are cheap healthy foods, but there are equally cheap better tasting junk foods.  Rice is cheap as fuck, and healthy, but people in poverty usually resort to microwave junk, ramen, and hot pockets because it is "convenient" and has more flavor.

[Joseph Davis]

I made broiled lime-garlic chicken, roasted herbed yukon rose potatoes, and pimptastically seasoned black beans for dinner tonight.  Fuck all of your mothers.

[Jorsher]

I made broiled lime-garlic chicken, roasted herbed yukon rose potatoes, and pimptastically seasoned black beans for dinner tonight.  Fuck all of your mothers.

 

Wait til I get a paycheck and can stock food in a refrigerator and freezer...

[snm95ls]

I made broiled lime-garlic chicken, roasted herbed yukon rose potatoes, and pimptastically seasoned black beans for dinner tonight.  Fuck all of your mothers.

Sounds good.  Where are the colorful vegetables?

 

Most of the crap that I know how to cook well is not healthy by any means.  Granted it is probably beter than the processed crap,, but i know the enchiladas could lead to cardiovaxcular problesm in a hurry.

lol.

[kgx]

Cheap healthy stuff is bland.  If I'm going to cook, it will have flavor deriving from natural goodness instead of from grease, butter, and salt.

yeah. i definitely agree with that. i went to some feel-good bat-shit-crazy cult of a chiropractor last night because we had gotten an invite to a free dinner. they said lasagna. i had no idea it would be from the 'raw' diet. whatever, it was free.

i don't know if i would call it lasagna, but it was actually really fucking good. no meat. no cheese. made entirely with vegetables, nuts and whatnot- 100% not even cooked. but it was good. it actually somehow tasted cheesy. then there was chocolate cheesecake for dessert. only it wasn't. it was a plate full of lies, but they were damn convincing lies. no dairy, no grains, sweetened only with blue agave.. i hate healthy shit, but this stuff was good.

then came the price- $175 for a week's worth of food. per person. it wasn't that good.

While that is a contributing cause, the sole reason why Americans are overweight is lack of thrift and self-denial.

right. i'm not saying it was the single cause. i agree that people have become generally worthless to themselves. i'd love to see if there's some correlation between the increasing effect of the "i can has" culture and the shift in the mindset of raising children that they deserve a gold medal just for participating.

I'm possibly missing your point but I don't see how that's a good analogy...  There are a shitload more dumbfucks driving than drunks, so it's not surprising they kill more.  Also drinking and driving is a choice.  I guess stupidity is to a point also, but I believe with all my heart that a majority of people are just naturally stupid and can't help it.

maybe i emphasized the wrong part of it. or maybe i'm just grasping at straws. i was trying to say that maybe it's about time we stopped being so tolerant of the people who "just can't help it." i'm probably just pooping words out my mouth though.

[jay]

*tyrants

[Teg2boo]

To finish, we have Harper and you Have Obama... I think I'll immigrate to Japan finally.

Fred has me sold on New Zealand.

i'm thinking scottland or ireland.  just visited both last year and they are looking for citizenships

I plan to go to these destination some days. As a tourist

[onlyflash944]

To finish, we have Harper and you Have Obama... I think I'll immigrate to Japan finally.

Fred has me sold on New Zealand.

i'm thinking scottland or ireland.  just visited both last year and they are looking for citizenships

I plan to go to these destination some days. As a tourist

it's fucking awesome.  i loved every minute.  we got super lucky on the weather and it only rained one day out of 10

[BoostedSchemes]

Star Fucking Hipsters - 3,000 Miles Away (ft. Ethan Suplee)