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Author Topic: J series ecu  (Read 33974 times)

92CXyD

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2012, 12:11:23 AM »

You could, or you could get hold of me! :-p

Ok

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #61 on: October 26, 2012, 07:38:54 PM »

Which one of your nignogs is going to send me a J-series ECU?

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #62 on: October 26, 2012, 08:15:26 PM »

Word on the skreet is that Neptune is playing with J ecus
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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2012, 11:42:49 AM »

Which one of your nignogs is going to send me a J-series ECU?
Made by Honda, or.... ? :-)

Got a J engine laying around?
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Joseph Davis

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2012, 12:15:52 PM »

Several.

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #65 on: November 03, 2012, 12:29:38 AM »

Several.

Is this for your current build? Will you test the ecu like you test injectors?
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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #66 on: November 03, 2012, 10:54:49 AM »

Several.

Is this for your current build? Will you test the ecu like you test injectors?

No and no, it's for profit.

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2012, 12:26:20 PM »

Bringing this back up. Just picked up a J35. Anyone have megasquirt experience with the J, or even without. I'm wondering how that would work out. I have a feeling Fred's ems is a little over my head still being sort of in its early stages.
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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #68 on: December 15, 2012, 07:31:58 PM »

ran the numbers on the 600hp j35, a 400hp b18, and a 300hp 420a (only because its closer in bore size to the j35).

[benchracing]
6500rpm
           j35         b18        420a
           600hp    400hp     300hp
           89mm    81mm    87.5mm
---------------------------------------
ftlbs     484        323       242
---------------------------------------
bmep   342        446       300


7500rpm
         j35        b18      420a
---------------------------------
ftlbs  420        280      210
---------------------------------
bmep 297       387      259
[/benchracing]

thermally speaking id say its more then possible, mechcanically could be a different story. for the most part you wouldnt be doing anything crazier then running 300 though a 420a at 6500 which is done (on pump gas) all time.
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nock

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #69 on: December 15, 2012, 11:20:51 PM »

Bringing this back up. Just picked up a J35. Anyone have megasquirt experience with the J, or even without. I'm wondering how that would work out. I have a feeling Fred's ems is a little over my head still being sort of in its early stages.

i think i read somewere that this is already supported in the new ms3 firmware. im still trying to figure out why they would even bother supporting this engines trigger in ms3 if most of them seem to be DBW and will never be fully supported by ms anyway.

you can also use the native 12-0+1 if you grind off all but one tooth off the cam trigger http://msextra.com/doc/ms3/trigger-wheel.html#dualwheelcrankcam in either case you would be a fag for using msIII. you could make it work in msII or just about anything else by adding a 36-1 crank trigger wheel, but thats a bitch and a half.

i think your best bet is to do msII and grind off all but one tooth from the cam and grind off all but 4 teeth from the crank and use 4-0+1. http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Dual.htm then you could do sequential and all the other shit that never worked very well in megasquirt anyway.

after that youll need a cop driver (bocsh i guess). or you could build one half of the 12-pack, this would be a smaller addon board that has 6 msII ignition drivers on it. if you install the 36-1 you can use v6 EDIS wich i would say is the most reliable.

then youll need some way to get a throtal cable on it. im guessing an older non-DBW tb will have a regular honda pwm IAC on it. so idle stuff would be strait forward.

injectors and such i have no idea. if your boosting im guessing youll pull them out anyway. go high imp. so you wont have to mess with pwm holding and all that crap.

its hard to say which engines will be well supported by ms a which ones wont. in gerneral hondas are not because there are already so many other options. finding someone who has already done this (ie running well and is not all fucked up) will be key.

by the way all the best MS setups ive done use edis, it just stays synced up way better. rev limits, 2-step, and all the other crap just have to be sacrificed to stay synced. i think its a small price for not having to say "well a butterfly flaped its wings in africa today and now my car runs like shit"
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PhilStubbs

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #70 on: December 15, 2012, 11:45:24 PM »

Interesting stuff. I'll read it better when I haven't been drinking. Quite a few J's use cable throttles and there is always the option of swapping out a DBW TB for a cable one. If you are swapping the engine and running it on MS, I'm sure a TB swap is easy enough.
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

PhilStubbs

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #71 on: December 16, 2012, 12:24:39 AM »

So, this with a bunch of pins ground off of the cam/crank wheels and an edis will run it?

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirtii-programmable-efi-system-pcb30-kit-black-case-p-119.html
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

nock

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #72 on: December 17, 2012, 05:54:16 AM »

if you want edis you have to install a 36-1 trigger wheel on the crank. sometimes this is easy, most times it isnt. it looks like the j35 has an remote damper (ie the mass of the accessoris do the damping) so it cannot be attached to the piece that the belt rides on it has to be bolted and welded to the center of the damper. bolted to make sure everything lines up, welded to make sure it dosnt go anywere. 

to grind some teeth off and run with the trigger wheels and vr sensors that are already there, you'll need a bosch COP driver or half the twelve-pack driver. its hard for me to tell from the pictures but the coils do not look internaly driven. 2-pin = extrnal driver, 3-pin = internal driver. mabye theres some oem honda manuals on the i-net that can tell you more.

from the little bit of research i did, it seemed that most of them were DBW and no distibutor.

this is whut i am basing most of this on.
http://cl.acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14153193
http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=131&t=39347

from what i could tell the j32 has a 12-0 and j35 has a 24-2 trigger wheel but you should be able to turn either one into a 4-0+1 and make it work.

i keep bringing up the edis option because it is sure fire, and if you grind the shit out of your oem triggers and just cant make it work you can just slap the 36-1 onto the crank pully and not have to mess with it. i not trying to sway you one way or the other im just saying that alot of the more sucessful ms jobs ive seen will go this way when there is an odd ball trigger involed.

ms can sync with the 36-1 directly (no edis bullshit) though the vr input. you may still need the coil drivers, but you'll have your rev limits and 2-step back.  and you wont have a big fat ford coil pack and  O0 rig spark plug wires hanging off your engine.

more over what im getting at is, there dosnt seem to be anyone who has accually completed one of these projects using ms. i may very well be wrong because it seems they have supported it in the new firmware, but i cant find an example anywere, which would leed me to believe it has not been done. and there for no one with real knowlege on how to do it. all i can really do is lay out some options...

36-1 crank trigger wheel =
good- works for sure, has rev limits
bad- need to find coil driver

36-1 and edis =
good- works for sure, sync's well
bad- must fit ford coil pack and make wires, no rev limits other then 11,000.

4-0+1 =
good - no trigger wheel to fuck with, has rev limits, will do sequental and some other cool stuff
bad - DOSNT WORK FOR SURE, nothing sucks more then driving around in a car that wont sync.


a had a laugh when i found this.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/06/meet-the-worlds-only-street-freak-civic/
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92CXyD

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #73 on: December 17, 2012, 09:02:25 AM »

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #74 on: December 17, 2012, 09:20:05 AM »

I see, misunderstood. I'm not willing to deal with a car that randomly won't run right, but I really want a rev limiter and launch control. I might have to scrap the idea of using this engine in a grm $20XX challenge car and run aem ems and just build it as a toy.
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

PhilStubbs

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #75 on: December 17, 2012, 10:35:12 AM »

This kinda perked my interest

http://www.j32a.com/showpost.php?p=15650&postcount=8

I wasn't actually looking for that solution, but it popped up. I don't mind batch firing the injectors too much and I'm a huge Neptune fan. I wonder if the Hondata CPR could be used to keep the individual coils.
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

Joseph Davis

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #76 on: December 17, 2012, 10:57:06 AM »

I fail to see why anyone would put a 36-1 trigger on a car and then not run a Ford ECU.

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #77 on: December 17, 2012, 11:11:34 AM »

I had a quick thought about swapping to a different manufacturer ecu, then forgot as all this MS talk happened. Ford tuning options are plentiful. That might be the way to go, how are there v6 ecu's? Or can the v8 stuff run v6? Kinda makes sense that it could, but I'm just good with a laptop, I don't really understand the hardware or coding end of it
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

92CXyD

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #78 on: December 17, 2012, 11:51:34 AM »

Use Ford V-6 ecus for SC Thunderbirds before '96, Quaterhorse setup should work then. 

I know a guy using QuarterHourse with his SC T-bird and either HX40 or HX35 (he has not decided yet) :noel:

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #79 on: December 17, 2012, 12:05:25 PM »

Were they COP back then? I have been back in the airplane business for quite a while now and my car repair memories are shot. I'm sure it would all come back if I got back in a shop, but my only car work is tuning the local Hondas anymore.

Also, can you run 3 wire coils with a 2 wire ecu? Maybe I could find honda coils that fit and are 2 wire, maybe the ones I have are 2 wire. I'm just thinking out loud since I'm at work and can't confirm anything right now.
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

92CXyD

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #80 on: December 17, 2012, 12:26:50 PM »

No COP, EDIS I think.

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #81 on: December 17, 2012, 12:38:32 PM »

Oh, right. I do remember that now. Hmmm.... I guess I try random plug wires I have laying around and see if they work in the J
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

92CXyD

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #82 on: December 17, 2012, 12:43:54 PM »

What about this:  http://www.diyautotune.com/ms3-pro.html I know it is above budget, but I saw this.

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #83 on: December 17, 2012, 01:47:21 PM »

Not a bad solution, but pricey.
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

92CXyD

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #84 on: December 17, 2012, 02:00:50 PM »

Not a bad solution, but pricey.

Yeah reminds of the Spectre's Phantom Engine Management, which was a pnp version of MS2 but was priced at $800 and up.  :noel:

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #85 on: December 17, 2012, 02:19:14 PM »

I'm thinking at that price level I could go with a serious stand alone.
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

Joseph Davis

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #86 on: December 17, 2012, 08:48:27 PM »

I had a quick thought about swapping to a different manufacturer ecu, then forgot as all this MS talk happened. Ford tuning options are plentiful. That might be the way to go, how are there v6 ecu's? Or can the v8 stuff run v6? Kinda makes sense that it could, but I'm just good with a laptop, I don't really understand the hardware or coding end of it

You might need an entire Ford donor.  IAT, EC, harness for connectors, etc.  You do that, or get a Free EMS, and I'll help you make it work.

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #87 on: December 17, 2012, 09:57:38 PM »

My original plan was free ems, but I know my limits. If you want to hold my hand I'm down. <3
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #88 on: December 18, 2012, 07:36:47 PM »

In this case, money/brains aside, freeems may be a better option if someone already has it running on a j.
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PhilStubbs

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Re: J series ecu
« Reply #89 on: December 18, 2012, 08:53:35 PM »

It's actually a very budget friendly solution, but well above my head. We will see how it pans out though.
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obd1>gtgtall

 fucking box started smoking and i saw a flame start up so i grabbed a bucket of water and splashed it on the breaker box.
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