Topic: Damn E85 (Read 8134 times)

FreshDA9 · « **on:** January 04, 2012, 01:39:55 AM »

having an issue with a car that is running E85. only problem is getting it started. the tuning is going great but when we shut the car off it will not start on its own power. it will start on starting fluid.is there work that needs to be done on the iat and ect tables?

I have tried adding and removing to the crank fuel table with no luck
+-30%
+-60%
+-90%

Car is a 14:1 compression LS bored to 84mm. when i was there it was on oem fuel pump. He tried again with a walboro 255 and still nothing. Also i tried uploading the file but since its a S300 skl file it wouldnt let me.

This was before weather got cold. now that its into winter i know E85 is even worse trying to start. fucking corn is working great but no start is bullshit!

HiProfile · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:30:58 AM »

I'd suggest changing the sub-idle rpm ignition advance. Lean mixtures need more advance, rich mixtures need more retard. You should qualify for the latter. You may even try decreasing the plug gap. However I'm just making educated guesses.

Injector size? Cam choice?

t_cel_t · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:39:56 AM »

i know your probably using some chipped stock ecu setup but heres my 2 cents.

with my car on megasquirt the cranking pulsewidths are fixed untill it fires then it reads from the table. anyway when my car is warm, clt temp of like 170 or so the cranking PW is almost the same as the idle PW at that clt temp. starts quickest that way for me.
idle PW is like 1.5-1.8ms, starts very quickly at 1.8ms.

maybe try that? also does it ever fire if you hold the throttle open?(to rich)

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:52:38 AM »

I'm going to come out of left field with remove your coil and see if it's burnt along the bottom adjacent the ferrite core. I've had cars that did just that on gasoline, or you could up the batt voltage with a charger on start mode and it would fire. The resistance across the plug gap is highest when cranking is my take on that, although I've no citations or calcs to back it up.

While there could be a lack of startup enrichment 1) it's not Art's first time in the saddle with E85 2) plenty of adiabatic heating taking place at 14:1 CR to offset any poor vaporization associated with alky at any ambient temp.

92CXyD · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:56:06 AM »

What does plugs look like?

If they have been in use for a while, your gap may be too big.

Bigger gap more voltage required.

Bigger center tip more amperage required.

HiProfile · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:14:39 AM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on January 04, 2012, 09:52:38 AM

2) plenty of adiabatic heating taking place at 14:1 CR to offset any poor vaporization associated with alky at any ambient temp.

It's not so much lack of vaporization, it's how homogeneous the mixture gets when the fuel vaporizes late. That makes me more curious what injector size/type are in the car.

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2012, 12:17:41 PM »

Injectors are RC 550's and cams are Crower 2 3/4 cams.

as far as plugs they are at stock gap .044 and the plugs look great (tuning the E85 is fine just having problems getting started). I will have him gap them down.

as far as the coil i will have him take it apart and send me photos to see if its burnt.

now there is some cranking features that have pulse with that i have not messed with. since you are saying about 1.8ms where do you have this? this is what is in hondatas

so t_cel_t are you suggesting i lower the numbers (pulse ms) in the base pulse table to about 4 (like in 177 degree cell)?

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2012, 12:51:47 PM »

So are they Crower 2, Crower 3, or Crower 4 cams?

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:01:25 PM »

he said they were crower 2 and 3/4. maybe he meant stage 2 or 3 but he clearly said 2 and 3/4.

HiProfile · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:12:25 PM »

14:1 will be harder to fire through, even with a big cam blowing air into the exhaust. Same for a wet mixture oxygenated fuels get you.

I vote to decrease the plug gap.

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2012, 01:23:08 PM »

will do already called him and told him to. told him to do .035 if it doesn't work we will try .030. also told him to send me pics of the coil. apparently his dizzy is new because the old one blew the TDC sensor.

chris · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:32:39 PM »

cough chinesse dist?

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:37:56 PM »

No distributor King bullshit but i dont know whats in Napa remand (probably Chinese).

sewell94 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:54:14 PM »

Even the ones from honda now are chinese crap.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2012, 04:24:08 PM »

Quote from: sewell94 on January 04, 2012, 02:54:14 PM

Even the ones from honda now are chinese crap.

WTF

92CXyD · « **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2012, 04:49:09 PM »

Quote from: sewell94 on January 04, 2012, 02:54:14 PM

Even the ones from honda now are overpriced chinese crap.

edited for truth

t_cel_t · « **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2012, 07:38:30 PM »

Quote from: FreshDA9 on January 04, 2012, 12:17:41 PM

Injectors are RC 550's and cams are Crower 2 3/4 cams.

as far as plugs they are at stock gap .044 and the plugs look great (tuning the E85 is fine just having problems getting started). I will have him gap them down.

as far as the coil i will have him take it apart and send me photos to see if its burnt.

now there is some cranking features that have pulse with that i have not messed with. since you are saying about 1.8ms where do you have this? this is what is in hondatas

so t_cel_t are you suggesting i lower the numbers (pulse ms) in the base pulse table to about 4 (like in 177 degree cell)?

im pretty sure thats what you need to change, not sure if up or down but around 4ms is a good starting point.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2012, 09:35:00 PM »

While E85 wants a HUGE amount of fuel at startup, this isn't Zach's tuner's first time with the stuff. Zach drove down here on the stuff for the meet. I'm pretty sure this is NOT the problem, so offer alternate solutions. :/

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2012, 10:20:55 PM »

JD this is not Zack i think you are refereeing to GoldDA9.

gapped down to .035 and no work +-30 and 60 nothing.

as far as the table i tried 2ms 4ms 10ms and still no start.

going to try .030 gap now. some more info form him it will not start cold or after fully warm. after running letting it cool down about 20min it will start on its own???

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2012, 10:39:21 PM »

Steve, we've been through this before, you need to change your screen name.

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2012, 10:50:41 PM »

plugs down to .030 and working that table still no go. taking a break for a moment with it.

As far as screen name change

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:30:35 PM »

Ok come to the conclusion battery is fucked. he will put a new one in tomorrow and i will try again.

Gold DA9 · « **Reply #22 on:** January 05, 2012, 12:36:44 PM »

I came in here and was like wtf...

Art loves E85 and knows what he's doing. I wouldnt post something like this...

Gold DA9 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 05, 2012, 12:39:00 PM »

Quote from: FreshDA9 on January 04, 2012, 10:50:41 PM

As far as screen name change

I think his name should be "NOT Gold DA9"

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #24 on:** January 05, 2012, 03:49:01 PM »

Quote from: Gold DA9 on January 05, 2012, 12:39:00 PM

Quote from: FreshDA9 on January 04, 2012, 10:50:41 PM

As far as screen name change

I think his name should be "NOT Gold DA9"

Or at least his user title.

PAGING DOCTOR FLIPNOG TO THE ER

92CXyD · « **Reply #25 on:** January 05, 2012, 06:45:19 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on January 05, 2012, 03:49:01 PM

Quote from: Gold DA9 on January 05, 2012, 12:39:00 PM
Quote from: FreshDA9 on January 04, 2012, 10:50:41 PM

As far as screen name change

I think his name should be "NOT Gold DA9"

Or at least his user title.

PAGING DOCTOR FLIPNOG TO THE ER

FreshDA9 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 05, 2012, 07:07:20 PM »

jabberwock · « **Reply #27 on:** January 05, 2012, 07:33:36 PM »

Fill a tank with starting fluid. Fogger button for cold starts.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #28 on:** January 06, 2012, 10:39:51 PM »

just run the fogger off the starter solenoid. problem solved

ApexSilver06MR · « **Reply #29 on:** January 07, 2012, 01:41:55 AM »

I needz my permissions back. *ahem* ADMINS!!!!!

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Author Topic: Damn E85 (Read 8134 times)

chris