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[Jordy53]

I will start this off by saying I will not divulge the shop or the tuners name unless negotiations end badly with them. I brought to the Dyno a fully built and sleeved GSR engine.  Bensons sleeved 82mm with JE's and Eagles. A JG PNP head with Pro 1's, rocket motorsports gen 2 springs and retainers. Anyway, this is the second time I brought my car to him.  We were half way through tuning, at least 2 to 3 hours in. We were up to  450WHP. He wanted to adjust the cams again to see if he could gain more power. He did a pull and I went to the front of the shop. He came in after the pull to grab 1 new plug, he said he thought cylinder 1 was detonating. I thought nothing of it. The very next pull...BOOM. I went in back, he said sorry and that the ignition timing jumped and he melted the pistons. I was pretty mad. He apologized and said I didn't have to pay for my tune. He said he felt bad and would get me the parts I needed to get my motor running at cost. I accepted sometime after this happened and said ok sounds good and left.  As the days passed I suspected he had not melted the pistons but had over adjusted the cam gears and impacted the valves with the pistons.  Well, I pulled the head this evening and confirmed my suspicion. He impacted the number 4 piston with a valve ruining the head. I was going to pay for the rebuild because it wasn't going to cost very much and I understand that sometimes pistons melt. I realize they melt from a bad tune. This is what the tuner said. If I brought him the car after the fact and he looked at it, he would tell me I had a bad tune.

 What do you think should happen?  Should the shop or tuner pay to fix my engine? Or should I just suck it up and deal with it? If you were the tuner that did this what would you do? Please let me know your opinion.

[Corey]

when valves hit the pistons they usually bend, ive never seen an instance where it cause them to break like that. that looks more like i valve failure then the valves hitting the piston.

what were the cam gears set at when it happened?

[BoostForLife]

That would be broke, not blew.
I know breaking shit yourself sucks as well, you just learn and go on with your life, but when a shop does it for I don't know what to say.

Is there anything else wrong with other parts, like timing belt cracks? Did you check if timing belt skipped a tooth or two before you took it off?

I'm local in the W. WA, just would want to know who tuned it, once you guys settle this and you want to share that info.

[chris]

Sorry to hear about that but you/dyno dude shouldnt touch cam gears unless you know your valve2valve. Piston2valve.



This is why every person I know who owns a dyno doesnt touch cam gears



For him paying for it not a chance you have a chance in court to get money. Your on a dyno it blows your out of luck unless you signed a contract that says all cars that leave with blown engines are covered by the dyno owner.

[88dx]

Start drinking it helps keep your mind off all the work/money u wasted 

[j.h.christ]

i'm going to go on a limb and GUESS it was that guy at intec.

[sewell94]

I don't ever touch the cam gears when i tune a car and don't know the piston to valve clearance.  I'm even little timid when i know the p/v with bigger cams. Pro 1's are big. If a customer wants me to adjust the cam gears, i make it very clear that i won't be held accountable if something like this happens.

Piston/valve contact will break valves, no doubt about that.

Did you ask the tuner to adjust the cams gears?? Did he ask you about p/v clearance??  What were the final cam gear settings?? Unless the timing belt skipped a tooth, how did the ign timing suddenly jump?

So did the valve take big chunks out of the cylinder wall?

[flat_black]

carb conn?

[j.h.christ]

carb conn?

they tune hondas? if their tunes are like their dyno strap downs....

[BoostForLife]

i'm going to go on a limb and GUESS it was that guy at intec.

Intec is a bunch of H-T fags and drifter faggots.

[Jorsher]

Goddamn...your screenname is in the "cool" part of my memory so I know I did some kind of business transaction with you and you were good business...

Anyway, dunno what to tell you in this situation.  Have you told the tuner about what you found?

[chris]

YOu DONT PLAY WITH CAM GEARS IF YOU DONT KNOW CLEARANCES


















!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jordy53]

I did not sing a wavier this time. But I did when I  they tuned my car prior to this. 

[Joseph Davis]

I don't ever touch the cam gears when i tune a car and don't know the piston to valve clearance.  I'm even little timid when i know the p/v with bigger cams. Pro 1's are big. If a customer wants me to adjust the cam gears, i make it very clear that i won't be held accountable if something like this happens.

Correct.

Also, there is no point in touching cam gears on a turbo B-series.  You make zero gains unless the CR is too low and the cams too big, in which case the engine is misbuilt. 

Lastly, it looks like the vavles wholesale dropped which can happen when they kiss piston as it can unseat the keepers, but it's strange it only looks like one cylinder?  You should have solidly smacked valves on all pistons if there is some gross misadjustment going on...

What brand valves are those?

[birdley42008]

After having dealt with dishonest and bad tuners I have realised always fight them. A lot of people didnt listen to me about Harris, I knew he was a hot headed tuner just like them all. I still kick my sell in the ass for not BBB his ass for not returning my shit. First try to talk to him and say you need a better deal then cost, then if he says no threaten him legally. In the mean time dont touch that motor its evidence. Try to consult with an attorney for FREE!

[Joseph Davis]

After having dealt with dishonest and bad tuners I have realised always fight them. A lot of people didnt listen to me about Harris, I knew he was a hot headed tuner just like them all. I still kick my sell in the ass for not BBB his ass for not returning my shit. First try to talk to him and say you need a better deal then cost, then if he says no threaten him legally. In the mean time dont touch that motor its evidence. Try to consult with an attorney for FREE!

You do realise no one you've done business with, from mods and sponsors, has cared for the experience?  There is a reason why you were banned on ex-HMT, and it was the product of about five people digging their spurs into Harris as he didn't want to ban you.  You need to shut the fuck up as you don't know enough about changing oil to bitch, otherwise you are gone from here too.

[Jordy53]

I don't ever touch the cam gears when i tune a car and don't know the piston to valve clearance.  I'm even little timid when i know the p/v with bigger cams. Pro 1's are big. If a customer wants me to adjust the cam gears, i make it very clear that i won't be held accountable if something like this happens.

Correct.

Also, there is no point in touching cam gears on a turbo B-series.  You make zero gains unless the CR is too low and the cams too big, in which case the engine is misbuilt. 

Lastly, it looks like the vavles wholesale dropped which can happen when they kiss piston as it can unseat the keepers, but it's strange it only looks like one cylinder?  You should have solidly smacked valves on all pistons if there is some gross misadjustment going on...

What brand valves are those?

 I dont know the brand of the vavles I took the head off of a car I bought. I know they were stainless steel.
Pro 1's donot idle unless they are adjusted. So it had to be done.

 

[marcj]

damn, it sucks to read this..
tuner should definitely pay for damages incurred as it was clearly his fault.

[Joseph Davis]

Stock are stainless steel.  Anyway, you have mystery valves (probably defective Supertechs since everyone listens to HT, ask Urban Indian or Brandon at BRMS or any number of others whose words hasn't caught the attention of the bandwagon yet) in a head worked by Javier Geek, the shadiest guy in the import scene.  I'd like to point out that that head is somebody else's used up shit that you don't know the history of therefore it's worth about fifty nine cents and best sold to someone else for a profit if you don't go through it yourself.  With all the china crap floating around for all you know you have fucked up incorrectly cast and finish machined Omni valves or some shit.  Big fat question mark in the quality department for you to go pointing the finger at anyone, even if you went to VadimkaG for tuning.  

If Pro1 need adjustment to get the idle right (I've only dealt with Pro2 on 11.5+ motors, so I really don't know) and you knew that and agreed to that but didn't clay your shit then how is it someone else's problem?  The tuner/shop is being really fucking cool wanting you back together and running, offering cost on everything... and keep in mind, you need a lot more than pistons/valves/head as your turbine wheel no longer exists since all that shrapnel passed through it.

This shit isn't stock, and even if you bought entirely from Ferrea, JE, and Eagle for your engine build (the way I'd go, admittedly there are other companies that make good pistons and rods) the shit isn't reliable, nor does it last very long.  When you build something to make 3+ times stock power output you accept a certain amount of personal responsability for when - not if - for when it falls apart.

It's really kind of a giveaway that the failure is in one cylinder as opposed to across all four, I may be wrong but 95% likely you had a single valve failure which took out your engine (and the other valve).  It's hard to have piston-valve contact in a b-series wuth a flat or dish piston, you might have had valve to valve but again I'm really doubting it.  Your engine looks like when stock valves pop their heads off when they get too thermally loaded at high rpm, if it was Supertech they are most prone to bind in the guide for no reason and bend over 90 degrees.

Lastly, you have leed-sama's call sign in your photobucket.  Why are you taking your car to someone you don't trust?  Not saying the mystery tuner isn't perfectly capable, but you have doubts so...?

[Joseph Davis]

damn, it sucks to read this..
tuner should definitely pay for damages incurred as it was clearly his fault.

Waaaah waaaah waaaaah.  We've all heard of claying motors, nobody reading this thread except chris, and Ross when he stumbles across it, has ever done so.  Since nobody does it you can pass that responsability onto someone who pushes laptop buttons.  They can electronically clearance the engine with the push of a few buttons!  I know, right?

[highroller54]

If that was my motor I would not blame the tuner, this is the game. Its not like he woke up that morning and thought, you know what would be fun to do today?

[Robb]

Clearly a valve failure. I wouldn't be too hard on the tuner. All he has to work with is what he is brought.Tweeking cam gears to interference would have affected more than one cylinder.

[MantisX]

If that was my motor I would not blame the tuner, this is the game. Its not like he woke up that morning and thought, you know what would be fun to do today?

Truth, just suck it up and take their very nice offer of helping you rebuild.

[Jordy53]

If that was my motor I would not blame the tuner, this is the game. Its not like he woke up that morning and thought, you know what would be fun to do today?

Truth, just suck it up and take their very nice offer of helping you rebuild.

Thanks to everyones reply. This will help me alot. I just didnt want to call the shop being pissed, pointing blame and loosing a good realationship over something that was not the tuners fault. 
     

[Joseph Davis]

If you need something the shop doesn't have a hookup on, drop me a line.  It's really wierd what I get cost on and from which shop (one of them my cost varies around day to day...) but I can try to hook something up. 

[Jordy53]

If you need something the shop doesn't have a hookup on, drop me a line.  It's really wierd what I get cost on and from which shop (one of them my cost varies around day to day...) but I can try to hook something up. 

 Thanks

[d16pimpin]

if I was the tuner id tuck my tail between my legs and pay for your motor I understand that shit happens but it was his mistake that things went the way they went but hey just man up and and pay up
and it would suck to really burn someone like that its bad for business

[LS1pwNzJ00]

Yeah, I have a hard time bringing my car to someone to tune it after I had someone blow my single cam turbo up because it obviously sat at 17:1 a/f between 4k to 7krpm.  After that i said fuck it i'll learn to tune this shit myself, and in all honesty basic tuning isnt too difficult.  Only reason I brought my camaro to get tuned because the program/software/hardware to tune LSx's is fucking expensive.

[junkyard racer]

if I was the tuner id tuck my tail between my legs and pay for your motor I understand that shit happens but it was his mistake that things went the way they went but hey just man up and and pay up
and it would suck to really burn someone like that its bad for business

tuck your tail and cough up a new motor? Seems like a stupid thing to do IMO.

Like everyone else mentioned, id take his offer to get parts at cost and get yourself a new motor put together.

[chris]

Also this is another reason just to buy ctr/itr cams I have never bothered to use cam gears with them. Im sure there is a couple hp in midrange if you really get down to it but fuck it they are safe and run like zc's 20 years ago.