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[PhilStubbs]

First things first. I'm pretty much sick of the tuning business. I'm currently tieing up some loose ends and trying to wash my hands of it. I'll always do cars for certain people, but I'm basically getting out. With that said I still always try to conduct my tuning exactly as a proper business would.

What do you do when things don't work properly in someone's car(by no fault of your own) and they imply it's the tune and don't intend to fix them?

My most recent example.
Stock prelude with h22 and turbo. I sold the kid HiProfile injectors and charged him $250 for a street tune. I put the injectors in and we go tuning. Wastegate has a 5psi spring, I haven't tuned a car with such low boost in a long time and can't tell if it's that slow or if something is wrong. Looking at injector duty cycle it seems as though vtec isn't working. I pull the plugs to see what's up and the spark plug tubes are full of oil pretty much making spark plug readings useless. I tell him to troubleshoot vtec and fix the plug tube seals. He pays me full amount for injectors and tune, goes on his way. Finally comes back yesterday claiming its all fixed. We drive around things still aren't right. He has a coupler missing a clamp and won't fix it plus an intake tube as a charge pipe with a cracked rubber cap over the pcv nipple. As we are tuning it's slowly building less and less boost. I harp hard on the vtec issue still not working and boost leaks. He just whines that it's slow. I have a ton of time wrapped up in this piece of shit and it's still not done.

One thing I have learned is they will know upfront if I do any more than set base timing and punch keys on a laptop they are getting charged $40hr. Too many times have I done lots of troubleshooting and repair just to make a tune happen.

But, what do you do when these people just won't listen?

[rawr]

charge 95/hr labor plus parts. Fix what they haven't sorted out yourself and bill accordingly.

I think 95 is fair. Regular shops charge 75 for rnr

[92CXyD]

charge 95/hr labor plus parts. Fix what they haven't sorted out yourself and bill accordingly.

I think 95 is fair. Regular shops charge 75 for rnr

When I work with a fellow Hondaphile we charge $100/hr, he fixes all the major problems and I street tune. I get $50/hr.

I do have a problem of getting some customers and fellow Hondaphile to understand tuning a car with a WB O2 is not wise.

I end up keep everything conservative add boost cut rev limits to keep people from blowing their shit  and blame me for their stupidity.
I then have to tell them if they want more power upgrade inj., fuel pump, WB O2 and make sure every thing is working perfect.

They can not handle that. 

[HiProfile]

Have a legal waiver with some big 72-size print stating your rates for troubleshooting a car in poor repair. You're to be paid for any time to make their car go fast, or just go, so they either pay it or you inform them of a lien put on the car. $40/hr is quite cheap, but >$75 will make them reconsider gambling that a chip will magically fix mechanical issues. If it won't run with a half-way decent afr/timing basemap and stock injectors/MAP, they either fix it or cough up the money.

I don't do any tuning because 90% of the requests in the past turned out to be a fix-my-problem waste of time.

[Minor Threat]

Scott, your problem is you're not charging people enough money and getting stuck with the brokeass kids who can't afford to fix their shit or take it elsewhere.

You got paid for the parts and original tune, yes? It was at that point that you should have made him explicitly aware that anything from there on would be extra $$$

I had a whole bunch of BS typed out here that I just erased because it boils down to this: You're doing work, you're getting paid. If you're not getting paid, don't do work.

[PhilStubbs]

I recently increased my tune costs for that reason. It helped a little. I charge $40hr for general labor cause I do car work on the side at home. The average shop fee here is $80 and I'm not a legit business. I have a nice 1800sqft building at my house I work from, but I'm still just a guy doing side work for cash. That's how I decided my rate. If I can't come up with a way to make all this go smoother I'm throwing in the towel on the tuning. I used to love it, I would get excited when I was tuning. Now I just want to gouge my eyes out with a spoon everytime I hear a Honda exhaust come down my driveway. These people also seem to think I'm sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for the next tune. They get all pissy when I say things like "I can't tune today, I'm taking my girlfriend out" or "I'm kinda busy, trying to tune my own car so I can go to the track like everyone else"

Maybe I should just start charging $500 to tune. That way on the off chance someone can afford it, my wallet will be fat, but odds are I'll never tune again. It's a win win

[crxvtec91]

This seems to be an issue across the bored...

Hell even im guilty of this as anyone who come to rhmt NE dyno day in the last 3 years can tell you.

From the end user stand point I can tell you this. Twice I thought I was ready and wasnt, or should have spent more time going over everything. JD spent more time fixing bs issues I could have and should have fix.

The thing to note is no matter how well something is plan something always has the chance of going bad.

[Minor Threat]

Any tuner worth their salt will know and accept that you're going to be troubleshooting and fixing minor mechanical issues more often than not.

The trick is charging enough and having good enough skills that you're still making money at the end of the day.

[PhilStubbs]

While I was complaining about having to deal with their inability to execute their build properly, my main complaint is when I tell them point blank vtec isn't working and they have a boost leak, they still just whine their car is slow and think it's the tune. How do you handle that.

Btw, I got a text last night from the guy in the story. He put duct tape on the rubber cap and got 1psi extra boost. I have an odd feeling that's his repair and not just troubleshooting.

[Minor Threat]

While I was complaining about having to deal with their inability to execute their build properly, my main complaint is when I tell them point blank vtec isn't working and they have a boost leak, they still just whine their car is slow and think it's the tune. How do you handle that.

I will usually say "This is what it's doing, and this is what it's supposed to do. Here are X, Y, Z reasons why it's probably not working/is leaking/is broken/whatever."

I have no problem telling people their shit sucks and they need to fix it properly before they bring it back. In your case, re: duct tape fix, tell the guy exactly what you feel is the proper solution and if it's not like that when it rolls back in, send him on his way until it is.

People will whine and complain, but that's not your problem. If they want to go somewhere else and not fix their issue, then they can be a headache for someone else and not cause you any more stress. Either way they either fix it to your standards or get lost, it's win-win.

[ratcityrex]

Evan's tuning has a great "so u think your ready for a tune check list" on there website. Print it out andhand it to your cclient's.

[PhilStubbs]

I have been slowly putting together my own similar list based on these issues as they come up. Maybe I should put it in check list form

[Tim]

Some people just don't want to hear it. I was dropping off a chipped Ecu for a guy that had no cel on a virgin Ecu... Because he doesn't have a bulb in his dash.  He has no vtec wired in and an iacv and iat cel. After I told him. 5 times why he needs to fix the two sensors and wire in vtec he still wanted me to disable the iat and iacv cel so he could wire in vtec.  I told him I'd buy his head when he blows his engine, took my Ecu and ignore all his calls now

[PhilStubbs]

I tuned a supercharged car once with the iat sensor wired, but under the dash. I found that out half way through the tune. I told him I can make any promises about the tune now that I saw that. 6 months later when the weather changed it lifted the head. I ignore him the same too. He has tried getting everyone he knows to convince me to tune his shit again.

[Joseph Davis]

Scott, your problem is you're not charging people enough money and getting stuck with the brokeass kids who can't afford to fix their shit or take it elsewhere.

You got paid for the parts and original tune, yes? It was at that point that you should have made him explicitly aware that anything from there on would be extra $$$

I had a whole bunch of BS typed out here that I just erased because it boils down to this: You're doing work, you're getting paid. If you're not getting paid, don't do work.

Pretty much. 

How you can tune a turbo car without a clamp on a coupler, IDK.  It's probably an 11 psi spring and you are just seeing 5 psi.  Kid's likely already junked the turbo.

[PhilStubbs]

He claims it's a 4psi spring and he has an eBay boost controlling upping it to 6. I am amazed the pipe never came out of the coupler. It looks like the front crossmember is holding it in. I'm sure the coupler is expanding and leaking though.

Either way, he started listening to my advice, but today I have him a very clear cut list of what he needs to do. If he doesn't do it I start ignoring his texts.

[mandrel-bends]

I would approach each vehicle with the perspective that it has issues, thus I would have the customer sign a T&M (time & material) contract prior to paying for or even agreeing to tune the vehicle at a specific cost. Take the spin around the block, check for issues that would cause you problems, and then bill for that diagnostic & labor time as required.

[PhilStubbs]

Well, I added a rule in my growing list of things people need to know pre-tune.

I spelled out that a tune is basically setting base ignition timing, adjusting ecu tables and reading spark plugs. Anything outside of that I charge extra.

[Jorsher]

JD spent more time fixing bs issues I could have and should have fix.

I went for a quick dirty NA LS-VTAK tune and he made my hood latch better and gave me a headlight 

I've of course never attempted to tune, but if you price things cheap, you'll get cheap bastards.

I did attempt to fix PCs on the side.  Didn't take long for me to change my mind on that...  My price was reasonable, and I'd end up at people's houses all night working on a slow FUBAR'ed PC, only to feel bad about telling them "that'll be $240 for my entire evening of time," and ultimately cutting them a steep discount.  If I ever do it again, I'll make it very clear up front the hourly rate.

Time is money bitchezzzz

[PhilStubbs]

He can be quite the generous nog for some reason.

Anyway, I'm leaning towards washing my hands of it for the most part. I have been pretty much ignoring texts and FB messages this last week and I have been a lot happier. I have some friends who's cars I'll always tune, but I think I'm done taking on new cars unless it's something that really seems fun.

[crxvtec91]

JD spent more time fixing bs issues I could have and should have fix.

I went for a quick dirty NA LS-VTAK tune and he made my hood latch better and gave me a headlight 

I've of course never attempted to tune, but if you price things cheap, you'll get cheap bastards.

I did attempt to fix PCs on the side.  Didn't take long for me to change my mind on that...  My price was reasonable, and I'd end up at people's houses all night working on a slow FUBAR'ed PC, only to feel bad about telling them "that'll be $240 for my entire evening of time," and ultimately cutting them a steep discount.  If I ever do it again, I'll make it very clear up front the hourly rate.

Time is money bitchezzzz

Your not the only one. Try formatting and reinstalling OS only to have the retard some how re-infect the damn thing less then 24 hours later..........

[ratcityrex]

JD spent more time fixing bs issues I could have and should have fix.

I went for a quick dirty NA LS-VTAK tune and he made my hood latch better and gave me a headlight 

I've of course never attempted to tune, but if you price things cheap, you'll get cheap bastards.

I did attempt to fix PCs on the side.  Didn't take long for me to change my mind on that...  My price was reasonable, and I'd end up at people's houses all night working on a slow FUBAR'ed PC, only to feel bad about telling them "that'll be $240 for my entire evening of time," and ultimately cutting them a steep discount.  If I ever do it again, I'll make it very clear up front the hourly rate.

Time is money bitchezzzz

Your not the only one. Try formatting and reinstalling OS only to have the retard some how re-infect the damn thing less then 24 hours later..........

PORN.......

[PhilStubbs]

Ugh, every few months my dad has to pull his HD and give it to me to clean up cause of porn. He won't admit it, but I know that's why.

[92CXyD]

Ugh, every few months my dad has to pull his HD and give it to me to clean up cause of porn. He won't admit it, but I know that's why.

So, what you are saying is the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree. 

[Ntrain2k]

JD spent more time fixing bs issues I could have and should have fix.

I went for a quick dirty NA LS-VTAK tune and he made my hood latch better and gave me a headlight 

I've of course never attempted to tune, but if you price things cheap, you'll get cheap bastards.

I did attempt to fix PCs on the side.  Didn't take long for me to change my mind on that...  My price was reasonable, and I'd end up at people's houses all night working on a slow FUBAR'ed PC, only to feel bad about telling them "that'll be $240 for my entire evening of time," and ultimately cutting them a steep discount.  If I ever do it again, I'll make it very clear up front the hourly rate.

Time is money bitchezzzz

Your not the only one. Try formatting and reinstalling OS only to have the retard some how re-infect the damn thing less then 24 hours later..........

That's why you make an image of that bitch.

[rawr]

Ugh, every few months my dad has to pull his HD and give it to me to clean up cause of porn. He won't admit it, but I know that's why.

my mom does the same shit with java based browser word games

[PhilStubbs]

Ugh, every few months my dad has to pull his HD and give it to me to clean up cause of porn. He won't admit it, but I know that's why.

So, what you are saying is the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree. 

I get my porn without the viruses.

[92CXyD]

Ugh, every few months my dad has to pull his HD and give it to me to clean up cause of porn. He won't admit it, but I know that's why.

my mom does the same shit with java based browser word games

Java based anything is not good there is a back door to you OS thru Java for viruses and malware, that is why Java need to be turned off for most thinks. Shit is out dated.

Ugh, every few months my dad has to pull his HD and give it to me to clean up cause of porn. He won't admit it, but I know that's why.

So, what you are saying is the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree. 

I get my porn without the viruses.

Me to using MS Essentials, AVG, or AVast and other free or semi-free security seems to keep me out of trouble.