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Author Topic: intake manifold theory?  (Read 4980 times)

turbohf

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intake manifold theory?
« on: October 24, 2014, 02:59:43 PM »

so manifold in question would be H22A in all motor forum. I won't buy a skunk2 or other manifold cuz I'm a Jew.

what would yelled the best power? no so much concerned with peak power as I am with a solid flat torque curve.
i have been searching and some stuff seems to be missleading.

leave it all and lightly port and match everything
remove iabs?
remove iabs and plate?
leave plate but gut/port it?
then i have seen a couple gut/cut the ports almost all the way to the bottom. making a super plenum and short runners


so yeah. what's the theory with this?.... remember I want more torque. motor will be higher compression with cams and shit to match....

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Dustin  :Jew:
1987 Buick Regal Limited 6.0L/4L80E (LQ4, 862 heads, tbss intake, 92mm tb, e1841p cam, Holley EFI)
2000 Silverado LS 5.3L Reg Cab Short Bed
1966 Chevy II Nova 400 4dr Sedan V8


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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 03:26:24 PM »

More torque, usually less revs => Long runners

More HP, usually more revs => Short runners.

I remember talking to Chris M about this a years back, he took the upper plenum, IABs, and spacer and put two TBs (not sure what size).
Granted that would be favorable towards less torque more HP.
But this is just a out of the ordinary idea.

Maybe cleanup the ports, keep the IABs and spacer see what you get. Then get rid of IABS and spacer and see if that will satisfy.  :noel:

turbohf

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 04:13:08 PM »

yeah I remember chris talking about odd shit like that. would like to keep in mostly simple if possible.


I guess I could swap out a gutted spacer and or double spacer setup on the dyno. wouldn't be too hard to do on the fly. but also not sure what kind of hood clearance I will have?

bottom end will be a 2.3L... so lower rev'er.
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Dustin  :Jew:
1987 Buick Regal Limited 6.0L/4L80E (LQ4, 862 heads, tbss intake, 92mm tb, e1841p cam, Holley EFI)
2000 Silverado LS 5.3L Reg Cab Short Bed
1966 Chevy II Nova 400 4dr Sedan V8


'Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.'

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 08:01:28 PM »

gut iab plate x2 stack em up hog the fuck out of everything. bigger is better on h22
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turbohf

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 09:55:13 PM »

gut iab plate x2 stack em up hog the fuck out of everything. bigger is better on h22

see i have heard that, but i have seen a couple dynos where the torque was fuckin dead down low, it comes back after VTEC to make more tq and hp... but if it kills it down low this swap is void. ill look for them again to make this a informative posts.
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Dustin  :Jew:
1987 Buick Regal Limited 6.0L/4L80E (LQ4, 862 heads, tbss intake, 92mm tb, e1841p cam, Holley EFI)
2000 Silverado LS 5.3L Reg Cab Short Bed
1966 Chevy II Nova 400 4dr Sedan V8


'Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.'

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 10:16:43 PM »

gut iab plate x2 stack em up hog the fuck out of everything. bigger is better on h22

see i have heard that, but i have seen a couple dynos where the torque was fuckin dead down low, it comes back after VTEC to make more tq and hp... but if it kills it down low this swap is void. ill look for them again to make this a informative posts.

Are you running an H or B trans? If B trans, torque numbers are almost irrelevant, even an H22 with "low" torque numbers still makes more torque than a B series.

If H trans, ain't nobody got time fo dat.
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turbohf

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 10:26:31 PM »

http://www.blacktrax.net/products/IntakeManifolds.html <~ couple dynos there... say they have IAB's but look at the dynos, wicked torque loss right off the bat?!?!


here is a nice one actually:

http://mnhondas.com/showthread.php?t=20805
     JDM H22
    H22 intake manifold & throttle body
    Bisimoto header
    3” full exhaust
    3” BLOX VS
    Hand Command chipped P28 + crome
    PS still attached
    AC still attached
    Balance Shafts still attached
    92 pump gas
    non B series tranny




http://www.theoldone.com/articles/h22a_head/  <~ Larry's thoughts... no dynos tho.


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Dustin  :Jew:
1987 Buick Regal Limited 6.0L/4L80E (LQ4, 862 heads, tbss intake, 92mm tb, e1841p cam, Holley EFI)
2000 Silverado LS 5.3L Reg Cab Short Bed
1966 Chevy II Nova 400 4dr Sedan V8


'Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.'

turbohf

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 10:30:15 PM »

gut iab plate x2 stack em up hog the fuck out of everything. bigger is better on h22

see i have heard that, but i have seen a couple dynos where the torque was fuckin dead down low, it comes back after VTEC to make more tq and hp... but if it kills it down low this swap is void. ill look for them again to make this a informative posts.

Are you running an H or B trans? If B trans, torque numbers are almost irrelevant, even an H22 with "low" torque numbers still makes more torque than a B series.

If H trans, ain't nobody got time fo dat.

B-series trans.... S80/GSR gears, ITR LSD.... but my last CX had a B20VTEC, made 220whp/148ft... some of these H22 dynos im seeing ONLY beat the torque well into VTEC. i want torque down low too, and to hold it out...
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Dustin  :Jew:
1987 Buick Regal Limited 6.0L/4L80E (LQ4, 862 heads, tbss intake, 92mm tb, e1841p cam, Holley EFI)
2000 Silverado LS 5.3L Reg Cab Short Bed
1966 Chevy II Nova 400 4dr Sedan V8


'Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.'

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2014, 05:31:28 PM »

The problem with those graphs is how the engine specs compare. You're looking at dyno numbers for a 90.7mm stroke but you'll be running a 97mm stroke. You're also looking at numbers with no tuning, stock 10-ish compression, stock cams, and OEM intake manifold.

Here's a better idea what a higher CR H22/F23 combo will net with a ported OEM intake manifold (note the Type-S cams are barely any bigger than H22 cams). This guy, PirateMcFred, did everything a person should do to make the engine perform better while keeping it very simple. It makes your 220whp/148wtq B20V look like a B16 with all the torque it brings. IIRC he only ported the manifold & IAB's but left them functional. I can't find his original build thread that shows specifically what he did.


http://570sx.blogspot.com/2010/08/ok-old-beater-nonvtec-g23-has-nearly.html


BTW here's a 12:1CR 220whp B20/V dyno I used for comparison. It shows poor torque below 4k compared to an H22 with comparable work, and it's still not better than any of the 190whp H22 graphs off the blacktrax website.




This is how I feel about "low torque" below 4k. My H23A has a K20A2 manifold on it which I think is comparable down low to the OEM manifold with IAB's removed. I recently borrowed my parent's spare car, a 1.8L (?) Astra, and I keep bogging it because I'm so used to NOT downshifting my H23A. I mean I only use 1st gear when I'm stopped, 2nd gear is fine for nearly any rolling stop.
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Joseph Davis

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2014, 05:56:29 PM »

The theory behind intake manifolds is the direct air into the engine.

Everyone should run a K20 intake manifold.  They are a direct bolt on for most engines.

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2014, 11:20:06 PM »

The theory behind intake manifolds is the direct air into the engine.

Everyone should run a K20 intake manifold.  They are a direct bolt on for most engines.

They also fit better, the dual-runner H22 IM needed the brake prop valve moved while the PRB manifold did not.
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turbohf

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 11:37:42 PM »

The theory behind intake manifolds is the direct air into the engine.

lol, was actually waiting for that response.

The theory behind intake manifolds is the direct air into the engine.

Everyone should run a K20 intake manifold.  They are a direct bolt on for most engines.

They also fit better, the dual-runner H22 IM needed the brake prop valve moved while the PRB manifold did not.

fuck, really? im to lazy to move the prop valve.

i just remembered that i do have a PRB manifold.... i guess that makes it a possibility to use.

that ~160fttq at 3200rpms is giving me a chubby.
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1987 Buick Regal Limited 6.0L/4L80E (LQ4, 862 heads, tbss intake, 92mm tb, e1841p cam, Holley EFI)
2000 Silverado LS 5.3L Reg Cab Short Bed
1966 Chevy II Nova 400 4dr Sedan V8


'Faster, Faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.'

ratcityrex

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2014, 01:22:29 PM »

Rhb5 on a d16 will give 180tq at 3000 rpms.

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2014, 10:55:42 PM »

i just remembered that i do have a PRB manifold

Everyone should run a K20 intake manifold.  They are a direct bolt on for most engines.



The H22 bolt pattern is a little less optimal than the F22 head, but there is no coolant passage nor hanging thermostat housing to deal with.
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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2014, 02:28:40 PM »

I just saw a dyno for an H22A with skunk2 k20 IM, skank2 pro1 cams, and 3" exhaust. 214whp & 157wtq, with 150wtq from 3k to 7k and peak HP at 7900. FYI those cams are a bit big for his compression ratio.

K20A2 pistons brings you to 11.5 CR vs his 10.5, and ITR pistons bring an F23/H22 combo to 12:1 CR. I just happen to have a set of ITR's I might never use, so LMK if you'd want them.
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ratcityrex

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New setup is old bottom end with a hype r head with gsr cams. built lsv with hx35 @ 26psi on pump gas
LEED tuned! 434hp/329tq http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pbDXZxZdZs
http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php/topic,16195.0.html

Old Setup B18a1 296hp/289tq LEED Tuned 20psi on pump! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yj-Z90j4W4   
http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php/topic,205.msg2437.html#msg2437

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Re: intake manifold theory?
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2014, 11:12:10 PM »

That could work if you put the TB lower & facing up, then the filter tube could spin around.
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they mspainted dildoes in my mom'#039#039s hand, in a picture of her in a hospital bed. -JD
dem gurls need some boobz! -Engloid
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