Topic: Opinion on EMS's (Read 16917 times)

Conceptz-X · « **on:** June 07, 2009, 08:54:23 PM »

Building a 408 inch Cleveland soon, will be twin turbo. 800+HP Weekend Warrior. Any ideas on what EMS would be the best bang for the buck?

Would like:

run 8cyl SFI
need 2 PWM outputs minimum
Ignition Contol, does not need to drive the coil
Distributor ignition with magnetic crank trigger with cam sensor in dist.
change boost and fuel maps while running
Boost by gear
(closed loop)

Inputs: TPS, MAP, Crank, Cam, IAT, Map Switch, VSS, coolant temp, (wideband)

Outputs: Ign, Turbo 1 PWM, Turbo 2 PWM, 8 Injectors, (H2O/Meth injection), (cooling Fan)

(optional)

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2009, 10:33:23 PM »

Why do you need two different PWM controls?

sewell94 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2009, 11:08:47 PM »

You have both pwm controls under turbo 1 and turbo 2, you doing a compound setup??

i'd really looking into a big stuff 3 if i were you, its reasonably priced, and very easy to work with, i don't think it has 2 pwm outputs though.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2009, 07:03:44 AM »

I was planning on running 2 VGT Holsets

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2009, 08:58:11 AM »

You could just use the one PWM output to drive both turbos. If it looks like both VGT solenoids draw too much current then there are some pretty trick $5-10 optoisolators on the market that can clone the PWM signal up to 60-100Hz, have to keep your eyes open so slew rate doesn't screw you on the deal. There are also IGBTs for cheaper, but you have to muck with a circuit board and enclosure. Depends on your inclination.

Eh, I like BS3 although I haven't had a chance to go entirely through this vehicle. 24 injectors in multiple stages, true peak and hold drivers, etc, but there are two criticisms here: it's pricey on a RHMT budget, and Blundell is right it's idiot proofed to the point some of it's use is compromised. I'll go one further and say that it's extravagant if you aren't using it to control shift points and do traction control.

You can do what you need with a Honda AEM. There's a 1040 box in the FS section for $550, you might be able to get it cheaper. Both Sewell and I can help with setting up cam/crank pickups, if you need to run hall effect (digital) pickups, meh, you can do it with that box but it requires top secret resistor mods that I've never looked into. They might be on the AEMpower forums, they might not.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2009, 07:42:06 PM »

All my pickups are magnetic for this project. I've got some time on it as well. The opto-isolator is likely the way to go for twin VGT control.
BS3 is almost in Motec M800 territory with pricing. Guess as the project goes along, I'll evaluate funds and decide what EMS to jump on.

I'm almost ready to build my shortblock now, Just need to get the Ford Performance Solutions main girdle and Kevko Dry sump oil pan.
Got a 4340 4" stroke crank and 6" SBC rods, Titanium wristpins, Mahle pistons and rings, ARP main/head Studs, ARP Rod bolts.
Ching Chong Meow CHI 3V knock off heads, replacing seats and guides with PPPC brand, Del West Titanium valves, PSI springs, etc.

This is why I am such a fucking broke ass.

Is the MS3 worth a crap?

As far as idle quality and drivability, are the high impedance or the Peak and Hold injectors better for accuracy.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2009, 08:02:17 PM »

I would steer away from anything MS for a V8 until MULTIPLE someone else's test and verify it works.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2009, 08:04:57 PM »

was just a thought. I hope to fire off this pig by the end of summer.

sewell94 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 09, 2009, 12:37:03 AM »

Dell West is some baller ass shit, i've seen upwards of 200 per valve on some of that stuff.

I'm not so sure about BS3 being in motec terrority, if you looking cheaper, look into accel dfi. It was orginally built by john meany(fore father of aftermarket efi) and works very well.

Like Mr. Davis said, I'd steer way from MS3 for now.

As for injectors, whats, what fuel, and how many do you want to run?? 1600's are very easy on a bigger engine like this. The bosch's 1000's would be nice, though. My injector guy can make any size up to 2200cc, if your thinking of an ethanol based fuel.

brine04 · « **Reply #9 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:11:37 AM »

A local just made 1200whp with a tt 408ci sbf. He swears by his accel gen7. Runs an AMS boost controller. I offer nothing to this thread but it's good reading.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #10 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:50:55 AM »

I've read a couple posts where people expressed the opinion that, for the average entry level user, BS3 was no better than DFI gen7 or the FAST system that Meaney designed.

Anyway, Fuck You! I'm from West Asheville.

Robb · « **Reply #11 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:00:57 AM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on June 09, 2009, 08:50:55 AM

Anyway, Fuck You! I'm from West Asheville.

t-shirts and bumperstickers pls.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #12 on:** June 09, 2009, 06:56:02 PM »

I'd like to only run 8 injectors, but 16 is an option, I'l be fabricating up a manifold from a tunnelram. Not sure on fuel yet, likely E85. Comp ratio will be 9:1. Will have to fab up an intercooler, possibly using a used truck core, but it should be reasonably efficent as I have a 31x19 radiator to put it in front of. I still have alot of planning and fitment yet to do for this.

As for your local making 1200HP, the guy my wife bought the car from runs an 8 second fox body putting around 1200 to the wheels with 3 stages of baby bottle. he breaks blocks about every 7 races at that power level. So I'll be pushing no more than 1100 on race fuel.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #13 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:06:21 PM »

A set of 1000cc should get the job done. I think a Honda AEM is in your future, you'll have a pair of injector drivers left over so you can spray before the TB with some medium/big guns if you feel the need.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #14 on:** June 09, 2009, 07:42:48 PM »

ok, I don't like the idea of placing an injector by the t/b.
Just think its inefficent and does not distribute well. Though with the high airmass, it works decent. It still overloads the near cylinders and deprives the far cylinders of fuel. kinda like the carburetor I'm getting away from

Robb · « **Reply #15 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:11:35 PM »

Quote from: Conceptz-X on June 09, 2009, 07:42:48 PM

ok, I don't like the idea of placing an injector by the t/b.
Just think its inefficent and does not distribute well. Though with the high airmass, it works decent. It still overloads the near cylinders and deprives the far cylinders of fuel. kinda like the carburetor I'm getting away from

The venturi that is the TB actually helps atomization. Race gas is what will hold that motor together.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #16 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:31:41 PM »

I know, just a personal preference

Robb · « **Reply #17 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:33:26 PM »

Quote from: Conceptz-X on June 09, 2009, 08:31:41 PM

I know, just a personal preference

Yar.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #18 on:** June 09, 2009, 08:36:01 PM »

With AEM, how many maps can you switch from?

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:11:10 PM »

Eh, there's a nitrous map. I've never used it but IIRC you set it up by +/- percentages of the primary map. You can upload a different calibration in 20 seconds, plus the 2-6 minutes it takes to boot up your laptop.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #20 on:** June 09, 2009, 09:50:25 PM »

do you know if Haltech fixed anything with the new platinum series?

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #21 on:** June 09, 2009, 10:12:44 PM »

From reading the forums, they haven't fixed their warranty procedures. Two month old failure hardware, they can upgrade you to Platinum for a discount. Whatever.

sewell94 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 10, 2009, 12:54:40 AM »

Quote from: Conceptz-X on June 09, 2009, 07:42:48 PM

ok, I don't like the idea of placing an injector by the t/b.
Just think its inefficent and does not distribute well. Though with the high airmass, it works decent. It still overloads the near cylinders and deprives the far cylinders of fuel. kinda like the carburetor I'm getting away from

The fuel atomization is very good with a pair of injectors set by the TB. I've seen cars pick up 50lbs tq from it.

E85 is great, e98/99 is even better. If you have access to it, i'd build the fuel setup around running that. Well i did actually, i'm running my car on e99. Its uber cheap, and not corrosive like meth. What fuel pump you plan on running??

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #23 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:38:47 AM »

Most likely aeromotive they proved themselves well in the race boats I have worked on, anything that does not fail at 100+ mph on the water is good stuff

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #24 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:43:36 AM »

The A1000 doesn't like to be run continually, and is outflowed by dual Walbro 255HPs that never go bad. That, and I can't stand the racket for a minor bump in single pump flow.

dvst8r · « **Reply #25 on:** June 10, 2009, 10:27:34 AM »

My problem with the A1000 is that below ~ -10C (14F) and colder, the A1000 leaks like a sieve. I had one for ~5months and then it got cold, and started to dump fuel. So I called to get a seal kit for it, my distributor told me to contact areomotive, I explained the situation, they told me it wasn't worth my time to put the seal kit in, as it would most likely do the same thing. So even after 5 month's of use I got a full refund. Went to a Walbro 392, didn't have an issue, I sold the truck 8 months later, and as far as I am aware the walbro is still holding strong.

Conceptz-X · « **Reply #26 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:15:57 AM »

Ok, something to consider, worked well in the boats (marine version) noise was not noticed under twin 1200 hp motors with dry exhaust

dvst8r · « **Reply #27 on:** June 10, 2009, 11:28:10 AM »

I couldn't hear it over the 12v clatter either, and if it didn't have the leaking issue I would have continued to run it.

sewell94 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 10, 2009, 01:57:54 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on June 10, 2009, 07:43:36 AM

The A1000 doesn't like to be run continually, and is outflowed by dual Walbro 255HPs that never go bad. That, and I can't stand the racket for a minor bump in single pump flow.

I've never had any issues with a1000's, and i used bunches of them. Mo old setup had one, i drove one 1100 miles in a day w/o any issues, its like 6 years old and still rocking on a car today. I've never actually seen one go bad, and that was the pump all of the fast street racers used for years. I do think the thing is way too loud.

Now the pumps that take a shit are the Barry Grants, i'd avoid them like the plague, i had one car that had 2 king sumo's go bad before the tune even got finished, we stuck an aeromotive on it, and haven't had a problem since.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #29 on:** June 10, 2009, 02:06:17 PM »

I'm just repeating what the owner's manual says.

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Author Topic: Opinion on EMS's (Read 16917 times)