:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Engine Management => Topic started by: theidealone on February 07, 2010, 02:20:36 PM
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Well, I trust most opinions on this site. I know, asking this question, I wont have to hear "S300", which is all I get from friends.
I am running Crome, but tuned by a friend, so it just isnt convenient without an ostrich of my own. So Im looking for a better and more convenient EMS. I have run S300, and while I dont think its horrible, I dont want to pay 150% of what I could pay for something comparable or better. So Im obviously looking at eCtune and NepTune as my two options.
My issue with eCtune is pretty much Calvin. With his concerns of how Crome turned out, and everything I read about (forced updates, and single user license paranoia), I dont trust it. I think its harder, when I send simple emails and get smug replies that come 4 days later, or not at all. Which sucks, because when it was released, I was certain it would be my future tuning software.
So now Im reading up on NepTune. One good thing about NepTune, is there is a tuner somewhat local to me that is an "authorized tuner/dealer" for them, where as with eCtune, there is no one. All of the local kids that run NepTune LOVE it, nothing bad to say. But on that note, I dont plan on paying anyone to tune my car. I have a friend that is capable, but he is only used to Hondata's interface. I have heard that NepTune is quite different, and a little less user friendly.
I guess Im just looking for opinions. Im a broke fuck. So once I buy this, I wont be replacing it anytime soon, or even be able to.
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Why pay for something when crome can do the same fucking thing for free?
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If you're ok with Crome, and the only thing you don't like is not having an Ostrich, buy an Ostrich.
Otherwise, I don't think I've heard too many people complain about tuing S300, Neptune, or ectune.
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Neptune is great stuff, I use it.
The customer support is phenomenal, even if the local shop who retails it can't help you, JR is very very quick at getting back to you.
The UI is pretty straight forward, you may need to clarify what a few functions do but again, it's an e-mail away.
Plus, the RTP boards have bluetooth built in, pretty trick shit.
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I absolutely love what ectune offers, but the BS involved is too much of a hassle for anything that I will be building anytime soon. I know there are lots of people that really love ectune, and it works great for them, but IMO Calvin is turing lots of people off to it. Maybe he kind of wants that to an extent. I really don't know. None of the shops in town want to touch it. It's a shame really.
I like the fact that Neptune is no nonsense.
Crome works pretty ok for the most part, and I agree with Bigwig. If all you dislike about it is not having an ostroch of your own, then buy one.
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ectune is nice but the license factor makes me wish i didnt get involved as well as up grading to demon having to pay 20usd and then not having a working serial for 4 days with emails back and forth. now that it works it nice i havent used neptune but people love it and its now available with demon rtp at a discounted rate than it previously was.
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Forced updates? There is no way around them?
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Forced updates? There is no way around them?
Nope
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nope its dated in the software, so if you dont have an internet connection you loose. Ectune is also protected from the good old change of date so calvin says it will go into hack mode and that windows serial will be banned from the server and you will need a new copy of windows to run the program again. To me ectune is like the bad things about it really fucking suck but the good things are ggggrrreaattt
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If you aren't trying to fuck around, and take the less than one minute a forced update takes once a month (that it reminds you of a week ahead of time), there are no hassles with eCtune.
Neptune is supposed to be super nice, never dealt with it.
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If you aren't trying to fuck around, and take the less than one minute a forced update takes once a month (that it reminds you of a week ahead of time), there are no hassles with eCtune.
Neptune is supposed to be super nice, never dealt with it.
Which is no big deal if you use it all the time and/or it is on your primary computer.
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If you only tune every so often, since it's a special occasion is it a big deal to open your laptop and run an update a couple days ahead of tune time? Especially if it's the last week of the month?
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If you only tune every so often, since it's a special occasion is it a big deal to open your laptop and run an update a couple days ahead of tune time? Especially if it's the last week of the month?
No, it is not, but it doesn't always go that way, Joey.
I will admit that I do not have an ectune license myself, but I do have one friend that I talked into getting it, and the last time we were supposed to try to get some tuning time in(a couple of weekends ago), he could not get it to force updates.
It is still a great program from what I have dealt with, but just because you use it all the time and have no issues doesn't mean that others complaints about the updates aren't legitimate.
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after a recent s300 tune i did, i will say dont go that way even though you already said you didnt plan on it. i would like to try neptune sometime and maybe i will on my own car sometime. calvin has turned me off to ectune. it is great software, but after a few emails back and forth, i got annoyed. i do 99% of my local tuning with crome and lately, im not sure if its worth spending money to go with anything else.
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If you only tune every so often, since it's a special occasion is it a big deal to open your laptop and run an update a couple days ahead of tune time? Especially if it's the last week of the month?
No, it is not, but it doesn't always go that way, Joey.
I will admit that I do not have an ectune license myself, but I do have one friend that I talked into getting it, and the last time we were supposed to try to get some tuning time in(a couple of weekends ago), he could not get it to force updates.
People who can't successfully connect to the internet should maybe not attempt to tune their own car? :-\
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9 out of 10 tunes i do start out at my house where i have wifi. i never really understood the updating complaints. i can see how it would be a PITA if you didnt have internet access but there are too many places with free internet anymore that you can get in their parking lot
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zing!
both softwares are great but i use eCtune primarily. The neptune interface is quite a bit different than that of crome and ectune, but its not rocket science.
the updates really arent a big deal. If thats the only complaint you have then i'd say your in pretty good shape. Taking the security factor away from it would easily turn it into crome where everyone and there mom ran the patched Pro version.
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Lol only that gets me is the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to be a tuner with ectune as well as the $65 license fee for each car you tune. 85% of My customers have hard time comming up with the 350 for turbo dyno tune. Let alone to add 65 if I eat there fee the loss is to great not to mention how the fuck do you sell a 65 dollar basemap in this economy. I see evans Now does som e-tune bs i don't u derstand his concept
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i dont do just dyno tuning, but i charge 300 for a street tune including the software fee. The fee is technically 100 dollars but some of the other tuners advertise it cheaper, but they still pay the same 100 to Calvin for each tune.
i refuse to use crome and i will do my best to convert someone from hondata to either ectune or neptune.
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Lol only that gets me is the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to be a tuner with ectune as well as the $65 license fee for each car you tune. 85% of My customers have hard time comming up with the 350 for turbo dyno tune. Let alone to add 65 if I eat there fee the loss is to great not to mention how the fuck do you sell a 65 dollar basemap in this economy. I see evans Now does som e-tune bs i don't u derstand his concept
Eh only offers it for K-Poo and K-flail.
I would suggest finding better clientele in that case. If you don't have the money for a good tune and the accompanying equipment, then you really don't have any business trying to make power at levels that require those two things.
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calvins answers are usualy. . . short and sweet lol
the software is great, and the explenantions in the software its self is very good. I like it a lot deff a good buy.
been keeping my 250+k d16 at 13psi together very well :noel:
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As far as Crome goes: the ostrich isnt my only downfall. Its my friend's license as well. So in order to use Crome Pro... Im shit out of luck really. John Cui has become a phantom. I cant get anti lag without a bunch of hassle: Gold (and I cant get Pro/Gold) or the add-on, but the add-on doesnt work without VTEC to enable a high cam, or at least something to put load like VTEC engaging. And if I WERE going to spend 150 for a license, it wouldnt be for Crome. Not with everything else available. So really, Crome like Hondata, is not an option right now.
As far as the NepTune: I still havent heard one complaint about NepTune. My only qualm is that no one can complain, but no one can give me any advice aside from hearsay... Well, sure there are some. But by proportions...
Onto the forced updates and other Calvin quirks: Its hard to picture how inconveniencing the updates are without experiencing first hand. But they definitely arent a selling factor. Im more concerned that when I DO need my software, I will experience some BS or glitch that will disable me from getting shit done. I dont want to have to fire up my laptop in advance, to use a software that I paid for. Its kinda vital. I shouldnt have to worry about that in my mind. I should just be able to plug it in and go. I dont tune all of the time. I will pretty much do the initial tunes, make changes as the season progresses (fuckin E85 @ the pump sucks), and have it around at the track for logs and small adjustments.
Im also concerned that I will forget to renew, and lose my license. Or Calvin will fall off the earth like John Cui, and eCtune will just be a worthless file on my computer, and 200 bucks wasted. At least with NepTune, its been around, and it doesnt have the forced updates. So if NepTune went away like John, it would still work on whatever update was available or in use.
The other bitch is that I havent seen shit but screen shots, and cant even get the stupid datalogger trial to work, because its retarded forced update isnt working. So I cant even browse the software, but I can with NepTune or Hondata. :( I dunno. Im REALLY trying to talk myself into eCtune, but its just hard. And like mentioned early (not only by me), my email conversations have been less than pleasant or resourceful. Kinda short and cold, like they could give a fuck less about my business... How is that supposed to make me feel about their future customer service, when they DO have my money?
Im not even sure what Im getting at right now. :( I guess I had just planned on eCtune for so long, and now when Im ready, it seems SUPER sketch.
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Neptune has forced updates, it expires on the first of every month.
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(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net%2Fhs107.snc3%2F15450_199656216270_563321270_4441987_5615250_n.jpg&hash=8fb2ef06d71abc73d3783b6b93294ec6eef86b84)
ectune antilag owns all
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Neptune has forced updates, it expires on the first of every month.
Hmmm. i didn't know this. Is this a relatively new implementation, or has it always been like that.
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Neptune has forced updates, it expires on the first of every month.
NepTune's features are rock solid, our support is second to none, and our support forum is not constantly full of bug reports. We also don't force you to update your software if you're happy with the current version
http://www.hrtuning.com/pages/category/neptune-rtp (http://www.hrtuning.com/pages/category/neptune-rtp)
Maybe theyre lying?
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I dunno, I have a dealer version, maybe it's different, or maybe it's changed I haven't tuned a Honda in months. E-mail and ask, JR is good about replying quick.
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I dunno, I have a dealer version, maybe it's different, or maybe it's changed I haven't tuned a Honda in months. E-mail and ask, JR is good about replying quick.
yea, dealers are forced to update every month and James has always been very quick to respond with any questions.
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eCtune is nice & has some things Neptune doesn't (small margin), but it's marketed now as "no fuss" w/o forced updates, from someone who's mother tongue is english, and as much politeness as can be. Maybe it's common to get sassy with joe shmoe customers in Surnaime, but not where I was raised. AFAIK it also doesn't monitor your calibration creation. I can't complain too much, as my low-compression turbo d16 gets better gas milage with eCtune than my oem b16 does on a stock p30.
One thing I'm thinking about doing is getting the Neptune demon package and using both to see what I prefer better. My brother would buy me out for use on his car depending on what plays out. For those with an ectune/demon package, HR-tuning offers a license for only $150.
If you aren't trying to fuck around, and take the less than one minute a forced update takes once a month (that it reminds you of a week ahead of time), there are no hassles with eCtune.
Neptune is supposed to be super nice, never dealt with it.
I know it's happened more than once where the update was uploaded a DAY before it timebombed. Not every non-tuner fires up their lappy on a daily basis, either. I'm sure it's been better lately, but I honestly haven't touched ectune in nearly a year.
Forced updates? There is no way around them?
It's limited to the extent any Windoze program is. "Creative thinking" is the extent of info I'll provide.
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i may start using Neptune now if calvin doesnt get back to where he was when he started. The short little comments i get in reply to legitimate questions just make me feel like i have done something wrong when i have been promoting his product the best i can. its a little frustrating when you feel you cant even contact the creator of the software you use the most without feeling like your being talked down to as if you are unimportant.
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i may start using Neptune now if calvin doesnt get back to where he was when he started. The short little comments i get in reply to legitimate questions just make me feel like i have done something wrong when i have been promoting his product the best i can. its a little frustrating when you feel you cant even contact the creator of the software you use the most without feeling like your being talked down to as if you are unimportant.
I have a feeling the old Calvin will be back soon :)
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i sure hope so
btw, Don said that crank is the straightest one he has EVER measured lol
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i sure hope so
btw, Don said that crank is the straightest one he has EVER measured lol
Thats good to hear, like i said it was minty fresh. I took 3 engines apart to get you a really good one, i'm glad it was worth my hassle and your wait. Now i just need to sell that damn 55mm main crank i have :P
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Damn. I still havent heard anyone answer my topic title... "Why not NepTune?" But I have heard "Why not eCtune?", which I guess answers my question all together.
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Yeah, they are equivalent on a lot of levels.
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Yea, it sucks really. Because I REALLY wanted to run eCtune. But Calvin changes that for me. I just ordered my RTP/Demon from HR tuning.
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post up your thoughts after you try it.
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i really like ectune once It landed on my laptop ive had no need to contact calvin, every question ive had has been answered by the tips in ectune
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i really like ectune once It landed on my laptop ive had no need to contact calvin, every question ive had has been answered by the tips in ectune
Thats how I was when crome first came out. Everyone seemed like they had a million questions and couldnt get this that or the other to work. Never really had any issues.
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Yeah, they are equivalent on a lot of levels.
How important/beneficial would you say individual ign cylinder trim is? Neptune used to have it, but JR says it didn't work very well from his experimenting.
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in my not so experienced opinion, individual ignition tuning would we good to have, otherwise you have to back all of the timing off for the cylinder that wants the most retarded timing leaving some power on the table. for street cars it seems silly though
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fuck you
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Hey fag, you should test out how well eCtune's ignition cylinder trim works.
This is what JR told me about how it worked in Neptune;
I removed this feature after testing each cylinder with a timing light and seeing occasional variance, basically one cylinders settings leaking into another cylinder's ignition timing. It does this because the main loop where timing is calculated runs slower than the timer where it's applied to each cylinder. The timing value gets applied to several cylinders before it's recalculated and adjusted for individual cylinder trims again. Taking timing out of cylinder 3 where it's needed may also pull timing out of another cylinder... but adversely this also means it's possible that occasionally no timing will be pulled from cylinder 3.
You should see if it does the same or not.
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i picked up 10whp with my old setup between corrections and no corrections. i ran into a hot cylinder, retarded timing in that cylinder and added timing to the map and picked up 10whp.
this was a 12:1 motor with stock cams/head on pump gas.
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Yeah, I remember you talking about it a while back. I'm sure you've talked it over with JR, but does he know about your experience with eCtune's ignition individual cylinder trim? I'm trying to get him to put it back on.
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Yeah, they are equivalent on a lot of levels.
How important/beneficial would you say individual ign cylinder trim is? Neptune used to have it, but JR says it didn't work very well from his experimenting.
Some cars require it.
eCtune's works perfectly. It is possible to rewrite the timing handler if the stock code doesn't work ideally.
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I think the only thing that's holding neptune back a little from the other systems from my point of view is the lean protection feature. It saved my motor when my fuel pump went bad.
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i talked to James again and i got a little more from him about why he does not have individual cylinder trim implemented anymore:
"It doesn't work properly since the timer that fires the ignition is running faster than the code that calculates the final timing value. Values from one cylinder will sometimes bleed into another... which means it's possible the cylinder you want to pull timing from won't be pulling timing. I'm 99% sure the same thing happens with eCtune, but nobody has tested it."
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Gaining 65 whp by retarding the two center cylinders 2.5 degrees isn't a product of imprecise control.
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Gaining 65 whp by retarding the two center cylinders 2.5 degrees isn't a product of imprecise control.
I take this was on an n/a k-series?
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Gaining 65 whp by retarding the two center cylinders 2.5 degrees isn't a product of imprecise control.
I take this was on an n/a k-series?
No sir, Ford Ecotec in a Neon.
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Double fail?
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I just bought neptune on a demon rtp board. Really like it .This is my first time out but their are other companies that have auto tune. basically set target af ratio set a max cylinder temp an maybe they are full of shit cause that sounds way to easy. I could see it easily added to Neptune to perform because of the ease of navigating the software. there has been great thought an work done so noobs can go from start to finish on their tune. (make sure they add the extra 4 pin header to the demon board case you add stuff later.)
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I've yet to see an autotune that worked correctly.
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Am I the only one that doesn't understand why? It seems easy to work out if you have the ability to make software to run a car. It would be awesome for vac tuning
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Am I the only one that doesn't understand why? It seems easy to work out if you have the ability to make software to run a car. It would be awesome for vac tuning
^This
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I can guesstimate the vac areas faster and better than autotune can/would be able to.
Besides, you're not learning shit with autotune. And if you've gone through the trouble of buying a wb, ostrich and burner, you might as well put some time in and learn how to tune properly.
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Am I the only one that doesn't understand why? It seems easy to work out if you have the ability to make software to run a car. It would be awesome for vac tuning
Try hitting all cells. Try getting the autotune feature to filter out tip-in and tip-out trims. Try getting autotune to figure out what's going on with the engine when the sensors are glitching. Remove the intelligent operator from the controls who can use some redneck common sense and simple observation to notice that changes aren't having the desired effect, and replace it with a script that clobbers everything according to a statistical deviation that has nothing to do with reality.
The sort of person who wants autotune is the sort of person who doesn't know what's going on and shouldn't be fucking around.
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i tend to disagree, if your software knew the targetted AFR, and highest timing allowed (user would input it as a starting point for the software), temps, ect. i dont see why it wouldnt be beneficial to make a VERY close tune to what you want with an auto tune. JD you made it seem like it would be running all the time without human input well your going to be there monitoring afrs and you inputed the timing ( it could go south just like it does in real life.. but the software would be extremly conservative)
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I have used an autotune feature once. After dicking iwht it for a while and letting it do its thing, it folled essentially the same trends that I observe and make changes for without it, all while taking about 5 times as long.
Just my very limited experience with it.
Anywho, anyone heard form Calvin lately? Still have a friend that cannot get a hold of him to get ectune working.
Disclaimer: I have not touched it to see what is going on since he needs to learn how to use it himself.
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i tend to disagree, if your software knew the targetted AFR, and highest timing allowed (user would input it as a starting point for the software), temps, ect. i dont see why it wouldnt be beneficial to make a VERY close tune to what you want with an auto tune.
Aside from taking a lot longer than doing manually? Well, there's the fact that what the motor wants has nothing to do with whatever "targeted AFR" or "highest timing allowed" you care to name.
JD you made it seem like it would be running all the time without human input well your going to be there monitoring afrs and you inputed the timing ( it could go south just like it does in real life.. but the software would be extremly conservative)
You mean that isn't how it's used? Have you ever met anyone who uses autotune? Have you ever met anyone who's tuned any appreciable number of cars who cares for such a device? :mexi:
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ur right JD BUT for tunning n00bs like me a good working autotune would be $
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i street tune cars weekly, so its not like i am some dumbass that couldnt do it without autotune. im just saying if it worked as well as it should, it would be nice to take some of the work out of these mundane tunes. dont get me wrong, i love tuning and if i didnt have bills to pay i would do it for free. it would just be nice for it to handle the simple shit without me.
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Part throttle and cruise are the parts that I enjoy tuning.
I must be a simpleton.
:D
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to each their own i guess. i like making power myself.
i do like when someone has been driving around on someone else's basemap for a few weeks and then gets a tune. within 5 min they always say "my car has never driven this nice". i like that part, but the vac tuning itself bores me
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Part throttle and cruise are the parts that I enjoy tuning.
I must be a simpleton.
:D
Yeah I enjoy the whole process part throttle and cruise are just as important as boost and wot.Am I the only one that doesn't understand why? It seems easy to work out if you have the ability to make software to run a car. It would be awesome for vac tuning
Try hitting all cells. Try getting the autotune feature to filter out tip-in and tip-out trims. Try getting autotune to figure out what's going on with the engine when the sensors are glitching. Remove the intelligent operator from the controls who can use some redneck common sense and simple observation to notice that changes aren't having the desired effect, and replace it with a script that clobbers everything according to a statistical deviation that has nothing to do with reality.
The sort of person who wants autotune is the sort of person who doesn't know what's going on and shouldn't be fucking around.
I agree with everything you just said. And with what Jose said.
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I too enjoy tuning part throttle and all vac portions over WOT, on the street anyways.
The fastest response I've ever gotten from a customer was right off the bat. The guy didn't think a tune would do him much, since it was just a stock H22 with a basemap from a "reputable" tuner in the area. I convinced him to let me tune. As soon as he started it with my new map, he was amazed at how smooth it idled. And as soon as he started to take off in first gear he noticed a huge difference. I didn't think it was that big of a deal, only because I didn't ride in his car before I tuned him but it was nice hearing I was making customers happy. I usually only get a thanks and my money.
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i street tune cars weekly, so its not like i am some dumbass that couldnt do it without autotune. im just saying if it worked as well as it should, it would be nice to take some of the work out of these mundane tunes.
Your "if it worked" thought would never be voiced if you knew more, and the fact that you are bitching about honest labor is not a positive reflection on your character. Show me one mathematical equation that knows as much as any human, no matter how stupid or hotrex/Down's Syndrome. These are our tools, we are NOT theirs. Time spent is a requisite for you as a tuner to make absolutely fucking sure you know what is going on. You may not be getting the money you "think" you are worth in exchange, but there's usually a couple thousand in the customer's setup no matter how shitty as well as your reputation at stake. If it's not worth doing for moral or financial reasons then you should do something else.
Part throttle and cruise are the parts that I enjoy tuning.
I must be a simpleton.
:D
WOT is easy, the part throttle shit is what works me.
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Right on Joseph I feel just a touch of nerves every time I tune a car, because I want to make damn sure that everything I'm doing is in touch with reality and I'm not blindly going through the motions. These people usually can't afford to be putting together a fast car in the first place they can't afford for it to be destroyed by lazy tuning. I blew up a guy’s engine one time and it was completely my fault that’s not a feeling I ever want to repeat. Their supposed to be doing the right thing by having the car tuned by a professional so do right by the customer and be a professional. That means put some effort into it.
Another thing is that if you’re not putting thought into what you’re doing you won’t learn anymore.
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Right on Joseph I feel just a touch of nerves every time I tune a car, because I want to make damn sure that everything I'm doing is in touch with reality and I'm not blindly going through the motions. These people usually can't afford to be putting together a fast car in the first place they can't afford for it to be destroyed by lazy tuning. I blew up a guy’s engine one time and it was completely my fault that’s not a feeling I ever want to repeat. Their supposed to be doing the right thing by having the car tuned by a professional so do right by the customer and be a professional. That means put some effort into it.
Another thing is that if you’re not putting thought into what you’re doing you won’t learn anymore.
I think Joey's said it before, but 99% of being a tuner is just being a really good diagnostician aka having really good redneck common sense.
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Right on Joseph I feel just a touch of nerves every time I tune a car, because I want to make damn sure that everything I'm doing is in touch with reality and I'm not blindly going through the motions. These people usually can't afford to be putting together a fast car in the first place they can't afford for it to be destroyed by lazy tuning. I blew up a guy’s engine one time and it was completely my fault that’s not a feeling I ever want to repeat. Their supposed to be doing the right thing by having the car tuned by a professional so do right by the customer and be a professional. That means put some effort into it.
Another thing is that if you’re not putting thought into what you’re doing you won’t learn anymore.
I think Joey's said it before, but 99% of being a tuner is just being a really good diagnostician aka having really good redneck common sense.
Yeah it totally is. Ive rarely tuned a car that I didn't have to fix something on it.
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ur right JD BUT for tunning n00bs like me a good working autotune would be $
yea that way joe the plumber can call himself a tuner as well
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ur right JD BUT for tunning n00bs like me a good working autotune would be $
yea that way joe the plumber can call himself a tuner as well
we all know that an autotune woudnt be anything but a polished basemap waiting for a tuner to make its true potential but when theres no tuners around like in my case.... well it would be cool.
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we all know....
We do know, but 90% of people getting tuned don't. If autotune worked, there would be a ton more idiots making money and blowing peoples shit up.
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ur right JD BUT for tunning n00bs like me a good working autotune would be $
yea that way joe the plumber can call himself a tuner as well
we all know that an autotune woudnt be anything but a polished basemap waiting for a tuner to make its true potential but when theres no tuners around like in my case....
Time to learn.
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i am too afraid to blow my shit up, timing scares me lol
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i am too afraid to blow my shit up, timing scares me lol
learn to read plugs.
Joseph, I tune vac very well. Every car I tune, the owner shits at how nice it drives and at the gas milage they get. I'm just saying that's not the part I'm into. Everyone has their thing and none of my customers ever get a half assed tune.
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i am too afraid to blow my shit up, timing scares me lol
i hope your laptop is fast enough to get plenty of samples for autotune to even be half ass accurate.
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i woudnt use any current auto tune set up dont get me wrong
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I spend most my time tuning part throttle in reality 85% of any street car build the car is in part throttle state. Even a road cource/autocross cars rare to have them at 100% throttle for most the run
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The only reason i thought it would be cool, is that theres no one in my area that knows how to make a basemap (excpt my one friend who is in ireland half the time) i would trust to make the 250 mile trip to the nearest dyno. So it would be nice to be able to hook up a wideband and turn on my car and let it idle and do it's thing then slowly drive it around untill i could drive safely to the dyno.
idk maybe i'm just being dumb about how quickly you guys work when tuning to fully understand how dumb autotune would be. :-\
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i'm just being dumb about how quickly you guys work when tuning to fully understand how dumb autotune would be. :-\
If you're going to spend money on building an engine, spend money on getting the car tuned. This means renting a uhaul flat bed to tow to the nearest tuner if you have to.
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Or just learn how to create your own basemap, and some lower RPM partial throttle to get you to your tuner...
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i'm just being dumb about how quickly you guys work when tuning to fully understand how dumb autotune would be. :-\
If you're going to spend money on building an engine, spend money on getting the car tuned. This means renting a uhaul flat bed to tow to the nearest tuner if you have to.
Yeah i just hate spending another $250 just on the drive down. But it is what it is.
Or just learn how to create your own basemap, and some lower RPM partial throttle to get you to your tuner...
I have a very limited understanding on tuning/ecu changes. Just no real hands on experience to feel comfortable in what i'm changing is correct. Plus new engine means i shouldn't "learn" on it. I would hate to ruin it buy running super rich yadda yadda.
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i learned how to tune on my DD. i chipped the ecu and put a stock file on it one day and it worked. started playing with it to understand the software, then stuck dsm 450's in and started tuning. if you know how an engine works, making a decent map to get you around shouldnt be difficult.
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Make a basemap is not rocket science. You take the stock map, you scale the fuel to your injector, you add boost column and retard the timing (the software do it).
Usually, it will be damned rich (it was in eCtune, a bit less with crome) like 10.5 so I remove 5% gas in all cells. It sit now at low 11. Might not apply to your motor tho. b18 are easy to tune :) Idle will be too damn rich, so you lean it. Give a little gas like 2k rpm and let it go down to see if the car want to die.
You don't really need to fuck with timing on a basemap, you only have the "easy" part to do. ;)
My car pulls hard everyday since july and still on a basemap (little better than a basemap, but not much). Again, its a b18a1 which seems to like amateur tuning.
Good luck :P
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Any more insite on Neptune? Waiting to get my demon back from moates before i buy license.
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Any more insite on Neptune? Waiting to get my demon back from moates before i buy license.
man now that neptune works with a Demon I'm wanting to try it out to.
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You should get your happy ass on that. You been doin good so far with what you got. Expanding your range will definately be beneficial.
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Dealer license is Great price also def look into it
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bought e ctune about 18days ago after countless e mails and finally after threating to send his shit back to him lo and behold finally got the reg. number Calvin is a DOUCHE BAG..customer service is gay but hopefully the software is worth the 500 i put out
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Shut the fuck up tubolardus fatusuarus cantshiftis.
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Shoulda went through xenocron. atleast he still takes care of the ectune shit fast. I had a problem 2 weeks ago with my machine id randomly changing. Fixed in 3 hours.
BTW a good tuners basemap is normally closer then auto tune will land you after driving around for hours lol.
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bought e ctune about 18days ago after countless e mails and finally after threating to send his shit back to him lo and behold finally got the reg. number Calvin is a DOUCHE BAG..customer service is gay but hopefully the software is worth the 500 i put out
$500? I see everywhere its advertised at $399 or something close to that.
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bought e ctune about 18days ago after countless e mails and finally after threating to send his shit back to him lo and behold finally got the reg. number Calvin is a DOUCHE BAG..customer service is gay but hopefully the software is worth the 500 i put out
$500? I see everywhere its advertised at $399 or something close to that.
Large nogs inflate numbers. but i do remember spending around 500 when i bought all my tuning shit, but i dont remember what else i bought.
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Neptune works, however when i used it last ( quite a while ago) the user interface was GAY i hated that about it, but it seemed on par with all the rest as far as actual options working properly and such
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Neptune works, however when i used it last ( quite a while ago) the user interface was GAY i hated that about it, but it seemed on par with all the rest as far as actual options working properly and such
Its different, but very easy to navigate.
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bought e ctune about 18days ago after countless e mails and finally after threating to send his shit back to him lo and behold finally got the reg. number Calvin is a DOUCHE BAG..customer service is gay but hopefully the software is worth the 500 i put out
$500? I see everywhere its advertised at $399 or something close to that.
yeah thats just for ectune with demon,then add boost solenoid and pwm shit and bam your at 500.00
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bought e ctune about 18days ago after countless e mails and finally after threating to send his shit back to him lo and behold finally got the reg. number Calvin is a DOUCHE BAG..customer service is gay but hopefully the software is worth the 500 i put out
$500? I see everywhere its advertised at $399 or something close to that.
yeah thats just for ectune with demon,then add boost solenoid and pwm shit and bam your at 500.00
and yet still cheaper than homodata
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I got mine installed, but cant get my car to spark, so it hasnt been run in my car. I did test it in a stock 92 Integra, and it works just fine. Still learning how to navigate through the software, but Im happy with it so far.
And I couldnt be ANY happier with the customer service. Seriously. The man is a bad ass, and responds within minutes regardless of day or time.
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I got mine installed, but cant get my car to spark, so it hasnt been run in my car. I did test it in a stock 92 Integra, and it works just fine. Still learning how to navigate through the software, but Im happy with it so far.
And I couldnt be ANY happier with the customer service. Seriously. The man is a bad ass, and responds within minutes regardless of day or time.
you should see the customer service for the tuners.....lol. Beyond stellar
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Cant imagine it getting any better. ;)
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So are we talking about Neptune or Ectune here?
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Cant imagine it getting any better. ;)
24/7 phone contact does wonders :)
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So are we talking about Neptune or Ectune here?
did you not read the fucking thread title?
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So are we talking about Neptune or Ectune here?
did you not read the fucking thread title?
I am referring to the customer service comments here fucknuts. how many times have Ectune and Neptune been compared in this thread?
I was just asking for clarification.
From what little experience I have, I would say that you fuckers are referring to Neptune's customer service as Calvin is slow as fuck to respond it seems, but i don't care to ASSume.
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Its my fucking thread you fuck, and initially, I was asking for comparison of eCtune and NepTune.
I dont get your question???????
The title assumes I was going with NepTune unless anyone could give me a reason not to, or better yet, a reason to go with eCtune over NepTune. I ended up with NepTune obviously. And I remember someone telling me to update when I got it going. I just havent been able to get my wiring gremlins figured out yet. :(
So anyways, were really talking about both. Since this thread was to give some pros and cons on both softwares. And were talking customer service, because if Calvin wasnt so sketch, I would have eCtune right now.
[EDIT] And fuck. Maybe Calvin could do a little searching and find threads like this, so he could learn a thing or two.
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after the great experience this weekend with Neptune and the help of James, it's now my main system.
call, text, email, PM....doesn't matter. He answers.
James > Chuck Norris
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after the great experience this weekend with Neptune and the help of James, it's now my main system.
call, text, email, PM....doesn't matter. He answers.
James > Chuck Norris
WHOA. careful dood. You never know where He might be browsing...
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after the great experience this weekend with Neptune and the help of James, it's now my main system.
call, text, email, PM....doesn't matter. He answers.
James > Chuck Norris
WHOA. careful dood. You never know where He might be browsing...
chuck? LOL
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James is the man I'm a new dealer for Neptune. I can't wait to hit he rollers with this bad jackson. O was gunna do comparison but moates sent me a new deamon so I lost my ectune but o well better off.
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Just curious - does Neptune still only have 2 GPO's? I reeealy need 3, along with at least 1 input to use as feedback-activation of secondary maps for my e-cutout.
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it only has two outputs, you can dl it @ hrtuning.com take a look the secondary maps can also be triggerd via Condition so you could set a condtion to be say about 10psi the ecu will switch into secondary maps which free's up an input. ive done about 4 cars on neptune so far after you get use to the interface The program is tits!!!
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So I just hit up JR to see if I could put the same license on two laptops. My buddy that does my tuning hates how small the netbook is, so I put it on my bigger notebook. But I like the netbook for convenience of lugging it to the track and wherever... JR said I could put it on as many computers as I want with no issues.
Where as, I see people that cant even sell their eCtune, because they would have to sell their computer with it????
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Yea that's another plus
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Just another update. I think its the Demon, but I keep having issues with connecting to my fucking laptop. So I switch laptops, that works, then that laptop will have the same fucking issue. By the time I get anything to connect, my battery is halfway dead, and most of the day at the track is wasted. Kind of starting to piss me off.
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What EMS?
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Just another update. I think its the Demon, but I keep having issues with connecting to my fucking laptop. So I switch laptops, that works, then that laptop will have the same fucking issue. By the time I get anything to connect, my battery is halfway dead, and most of the day at the track is wasted. Kind of starting to piss me off.
You plugging it into the same usb port every time?
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Yea, it turned out that the USB socket broke off of the Demon, after 1 weeks use. Its a fucked design that cant fit into a P72 or P61. Xenocron mentions to shave the USB with a razor blade, and tape it, to thin out the cable, so it fits under the daughter board. Well it still doesnt fit well, even shaved down. That pressure from the daughter board caused the faulty ass surface mount USB socket to break off of the board.
David Blundell told me to pay shipping, and possibly pay for repairs. They would decide if I had to pay for repairs or not, after they saw it in person. I would rather fix it myself and sell the piece of shit. Ive had nothing but issues from my Demon so far. First it was just connectivity issues, off and on. Now the fuckers just broken. Couldnt make any changes at the track, where I found this out.
Sucks, I was really hoping to not run a Homodata.
Oh, and Im using NepTune RTP. And yes, I was plugging into the same USB port everytime.
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you know you can use an ostrich with neptune too right?
Moates is good people about repair stuff, I've had 2 ostriches replaced no questions asked.
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Blundar told me that they would "probably do it for free" if there wasnt "neglect or abuse". Seriously? No questions asked? That sounds more like an accusation to me. Ive seriously hardly used this thing. Its damn near brand new, and shouldnt be such a PITA.
And yes, I know I can use an Ostrich and Hulog, but I waited it out for the Demon, so I wouldnt have to use the Ostrich and Hulog. I dont want to downgrade. I want a board that fits within my ECU. Sadly, S300 fits, I have a pretty solid tune for one, Ive never had connecting issues, and I dont have to worry about software or hardware bugs. Plus, I only have one guy out here, that is well versed with NepTune, vs. everybody and their mom being comfortable with S300.
I just didnt want to be another Hondata nut hugger. :(
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Blundar told me that they would "probably do it for free" if there wasnt "neglect or abuse". Seriously? No questions asked? That sounds more like an accusation to me.
Take two steps back and look at the import community. Do you trust them to correctly change oil? It's nothing personal, sir.
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that is well versed with NepTune, vs. everybody and their mom being comfortable with S300.
I just didnt want to be another Hondata nut hugger. :(
talk to who is going to tune the car and ask them what to get.you dont want some one learning new software on your car.
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Yea JD, but at the same time, I offered to send quality photos, after I clearly explained the issue. I dont see how that can be neglect or abuse. The only way around it happening, would have been to remove the knock board. But its not my ECU, so I couldnt do that. (My ECU turned out to be shit, so I borrowed this P61 from a friend).
And yea runsfromdacops. Its actually a good friend of mine, and he has never used NepTune before. Although Im confident that he has done fine with the tune, he's sick of the connectivity issues, and fucking with it setup so much. Hes much more comfortable with Hondata, along with everyone else in Colorado. I just really didnt want to use Hondata. But I guess if I can sell this Demon and NepTune serial, I will just have to jump on the bandwagon. :(
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Took some pics of how the USB broke. Not sure if the P72 daughter board lines up differently than the P61, but I had to take a couple extra measure than Xenocron mentions in his write up.
The USB socket (how it should be)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0001.jpg&hash=948b2bd4dae4d1d8d4cac393c14a9bd77efd879b)
How it is now
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0002.jpg&hash=92cb25e37600cff42dc8d32de409033457847810)
Surface mount is suck
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0003.jpg&hash=212711fc0cfc90f15a8ab8fc39fb65ae392b77e4)
My board that the USB is NOT broken on. Showing the USB cord shaved down and taped up for clearance (Which is kinda shitty design IMO)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0004.jpg&hash=0f44797a52b6db8664ce465be3ed4a4262654626)
The daughter board and how it all lines up
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0005.jpg&hash=6d8c3bc1aabee5089bce5b3a9b49e7eb9034862d)
If I lay the board all the way down, that chip contacts with the USB cord
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0012-1.jpg&hash=b581a6676a33c9bd3f8f473da4f2696b99acc201)
So this is what I decided to do differently from Xenocron's instructions:
I put two of small screws that would hold the daughter board in, into the case without the board. Using these to prop the board up.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0014-1.jpg&hash=222dbe4ed732fe229648b8f285a1019f27e70872)
I then put the board in, and held it in by the other two screws, just loosely screwed in.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0015-1.jpg&hash=aec25aa53c517a2b8472252d8978ba32d9cfd78c)
I was then going to put the cover on backwards, because the center hole is offset. But there is that plastic anti static cover inside of the lid, and I wanted that to line up with the daughter board obviously.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0016-1.jpg&hash=894932ae9a2617426d74b28f987044f670476af3)
So the lid had to go on facing the correct way. But I obviously cant put a screw in it, because the screw is under it already. If this were MY ECU, I would have cut the recess out, so that the lid can sit flush, but its not mine, so I cant. So it does bulge up in the center. But with the screw being under where the pressure is, I dont see any damage coming from this...
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0017-1.jpg&hash=7e9048133a52db62a18d32877a83b60a947eada8)
Heres the bulging
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0018-1.jpg&hash=0914ba3c561141bfd0cd2a2d73f404082c1fae8b)
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OK, question. You said you kept the KS board because it's not your ECU. Yet, the ECU is socketed and obviously meant for tuning - so why not remove the KS board?
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I have no idea. I will admit, I dont know that much of what Im doing. I just have a steady hand, and can solder. I installed the set-up for my friend, into his ECU. I havent read a write up that says to remove it. I know I CAN, but I dont know if there is a reason he might want to keep it??? So unless he gives me the go ahead, its obviously not my decision to pull it.
[EDIT] So the question is, honestly, is there ANY reason he should keep the daughter board? Is there no way to use the knock sensor with a chipped ECU? Or is it just a waste of space, and should come out, because there is NO way in hell that it will EVER benefit him???
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The Honduh knock routine is pretty whack from what I gather. JD may or may not choose to go into detail. It owuld be nice to read an explanation as to why. I ASSume it only looks for knock during periods that we don't care about, such as part throttle cruise.
I don't claim to know for sure though, so...
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A KS board is an emissions device on a Honda. Read a Helms if you don't believe me - the ECU stops paying attention to it at WOT and above 5K rpms. I can appreciate your not wanting to make blind modifications on someone else's ECU, but this is a situation where retaining it has obviously caused damage to that Demon. This is one of the grey areas where selling raw un-sugarcoated technology to the public creates problems, and I think there should be documentation stating to remove the KS board to avoid situations like yours.
In all honesty, all the pads on the Demon look intact, and the USB port does not appear to have bent/broken pins. That's a very easy fix, it'd take longer for the iron to heat than to reflow those joints.
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Ok, cool. I wasnt sure how valuable the stock knock sensor is. Thanks for the info. Im going to run it by him, and hopefully just pull that bitch. And its going on an LS, not a B17 anyways, so Im not even sure that he would be able to utilize it.
And I completely agree. Someone should adjust the write ups that have been done (J-K, HRTuning, Xenocron, etc) to just remove the knock boad, rather than shave the USB down, and solder it straight into the ECU, blah blah blah. It seems that there is no real benefit from keeping it, and as youve stated, its just fucking shit up.
We will probably be sending back the Demon this weekend. I would solder it myself, but the 5 little miniature prongs look like I would bridge the shit out of them. So I would rather leave that to the professionals, especially if they will warranty it.
Thanks for the info and help. I appreciate it.
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Get a 15 what solder iron and smallest guage u can find u can do it moates repairs always took me 2 weeks to a month but then I've recived two deamons for my situations.
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you seriously can't handle that. I wouldve just soldered back in without much thought.
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Its not my board, and its these 5 spots in the middle that make my hand shake. LOL.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi49.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Ff287%2Ftheidealone%2FRandom%2520Engine%2520Parts%2FDSC_0002.jpg&hash=92cb25e37600cff42dc8d32de409033457847810)
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Fuckers. I soldered the USB back in, I will take pics in a little bit.
But Im about to pull the knock board out. What do I need to do? Just desolder the ribbon cable from the ECU? Anything else?
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Fuckers. I soldered the USB back in, I will take pics in a little bit.
But Im about to pull the knock board out. What do I need to do? Just desolder the ribbon cable from the ECU? Anything else?
FYI, a heat gun works pretty well for that operation.
A solder sucker would also obviously work too.
You could always go to PGMFI.org to find your answer....
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But Im about to pull the knock board out. What do I need to do? Just desolder the ribbon cable from the ECU? Anything else?
It is impossible to remove a KS board without the aid of a frosty alcoholic beverage.
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People do anything to cars without a frosty alcoholic beverage?
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But Im about to pull the knock board out. What do I need to do? Just desolder the ribbon cable from the ECU? Anything else?
It is impossible to remove a KS board without the aid of a frosty alcoholic beverage.
I did it without a frosty beverage, just a pair of snips. A frosty beverage would have made the 3 snips much more enjoyable.
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People do anything to cars without a frosty alcoholic beverage?
I smoke crank before I port.
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Sounds like a solid plan. What could go wrong?
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Nothing I havent slept in 4 days. Busy doing nothing!
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after to read this thread , ill go with neptune very soon..
:yes:
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I'm a little behind on any of this shit as my car is still down, but looks like Calvin might pull the forced update finally.
http://forum.ectune.com/viewtopic.php?t=2698 (http://forum.ectune.com/viewtopic.php?t=2698)
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Well then, why not eCtune?
Problem resolved.