:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: Eggylshatch on March 15, 2012, 09:24:19 PM

Title: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on March 15, 2012, 09:24:19 PM
UPDATE: Replaced the head, water pump, timing belt.  New distributor cap and rotor.  Plug wires are old but I have 2 sets I've tried.  Just replaced the coil.  Fucking nothing.  It doesn't seem like its getting spark at all.  There is power at the ignition coil wire plug.  What the hell could this be?  The timing at the distributor might be off (it wasn't marked at all, came off a diff engine), but I'm pretty sure I got the cam pulleys and crank pulley lined up right when I put the belt on.  Either way, even if it was off just a touch, shouldn't I still be getting some spark?  The plugs look totally clean and just smell like gas any time I pull them after trying to start it.

Also, no CEL's, but when I turn the key to "on" the ecu just flashes once and then the light stays off- is that normal?

Any ideas?  I'm ready to sell the slut for nothing if it won't start in the next couple days, too much time wasted.

It's a 91 civic si, stock.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuuuuuuck
Post by: 92CXyD on March 15, 2012, 10:50:26 PM
Non-vtec usually ok, unless the belt broke at like 8k revs.  :noel:

Title: Re: Fuuuuuuuuuuck
Post by: turbohf on March 15, 2012, 11:04:28 PM
all honda automobile engines are interference...


throw a belt on it. rock it.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuuuuuuck
Post by: Eggylshatch on March 15, 2012, 11:29:53 PM
I like you guys. 
Title: Re: Fuuuuuuuuuuck
Post by: crttaz on March 16, 2012, 12:17:00 AM
all honda automobile engines are interference...

WRONG!!!!!

Go back to useless Honda Tech you cum guzzler :)
Title: Re: Fuuuuuuuuuuck
Post by: turbohf on March 16, 2012, 12:20:20 AM
all honda automobile engines are interference...

WRONG!!!!!

Go back to useless Honda Tech you cum guzzler :)

not "honda-tech" that info is FROM HONDA in Honda service bulletin.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuuuuuuck
Post by: crttaz on March 16, 2012, 12:24:46 AM
The same useless Honda info that states 99 Si's had 4.266 FD's???

Stock D15B2/7 have .040" or more valve clearance AT ALL TIMES. A customer was checking his motor, piston at TDC and rotating the cam by hand.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuuuuuuck
Post by: turbohf on March 16, 2012, 12:52:24 AM
The same useless Honda info that states 99 Si's had 4.266 FD's???


pretty sure Helm Inc. published that info.

the info im referring to was sent (now on internet) to Honda dealers as "Service News"... btw i have seen in those service news postings corrections/"updates" to wrong shit in those serivce manuals before also.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: Eggylshatch on March 16, 2012, 05:28:29 PM
Update with new problems...
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: bouncinofftherevlimiter on March 16, 2012, 09:28:33 PM
A friend of mine tossed the belt on his z6 at like 7K cause he forgot to tighten the tensioner bolt and just threw the belt back on and has been running fine since, actually better cause i think it was one tooth off anyways...

throw a new one on and rock it, after you figure out why the original shredded and fix...
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: crttaz on March 17, 2012, 12:44:24 AM
cam starved of oil, locked up.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: 92CXyD on March 17, 2012, 08:00:52 AM
cam starved of oil, locked up.

I've been seeing that a lot lately, fucking dumbasses.

Not changing their oil or check level often, and they can not here the valvetrain making tons of noises when starving of oil, due their stereos.   :?: :noel:
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: crttaz on March 17, 2012, 12:12:37 PM
cam starved of oil, locked up.

I've been seeing that a lot lately, fucking dumbasses.

Not changing their oil or check level often, and they can not here the valvetrain making tons of noises when starving of oil, due their stereos.   :?: :noel:

Why would the valve train make more noise when starved for oil in a Honda?

I don't see any lifters in there.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: 92CXyD on March 17, 2012, 02:04:18 PM
Rockers were do to no oil, which wears them a bit.

Also valves were in the valve guides, and oil is the secondary cooling system of the engine.

So things get loose in some area while area get tight due to excessive heat.

Also seen too many cam gears break off with a bit of cam because of oil starvation.  :noel:

Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: crttaz on March 17, 2012, 06:09:08 PM
I've seen cams snapped in half, cam gears ripped off the cam, center section of the cam gear spun 20 degrees, belts shreaded...all from SOC seizing due to oil/heat issues.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: Eggylshatch on March 18, 2012, 04:37:07 PM
Pulled the head yesterday (just before the storm rolled in...18 inches of snow and still dumping!) and the valves *look* okay.  I haven't tried taking the head apart at all yet though.  Might pull the head off the spare engine I have, hopefully it is good.  The spare is actually the original engine from the car, previous owner pulled it after he hit a rock that unknowingly punctured the oil pan and ran it out of oil...  I'm selling this thing when its running again.  Needs a new hood and paint, but not a spot of rust on this baby, and interior is in great condition.  91 civic si, anyone?  Sunroof is tits!
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: 92CXyD on March 19, 2012, 07:14:17 AM
Pulled the head yesterday (just before the storm rolled in...18 inches of snow and still dumping!) and the valves *look* okay.  I haven't tried taking the head apart at all yet though.  Might pull the head off the spare engine I have, hopefully it is good.  The spare is actually the original engine from the car, previous owner pulled it after he hit a rock that unknowingly punctured the oil pan and ran it out of oil...  I'm selling this thing when its running again.  Needs a new hood and paint, but not a spot of rust on this baby, and interior is in great condition.  91 civic si, anyone?  Sunroof is tits!

Tempting if you were not far away?  :noel:
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: Eggylshatch on March 20, 2012, 06:06:52 PM
Flagstaff, AZ  O0
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: JaredKaragen on March 23, 2012, 01:18:56 PM
Pulled the head yesterday (just before the storm rolled in...18 inches of snow and still dumping!) and the valves *look* okay.  I haven't tried taking the head apart at all yet though.  Might pull the head off the spare engine I have, hopefully it is good.  The spare is actually the original engine from the car, previous owner pulled it after he hit a rock that unknowingly punctured the oil pan and ran it out of oil...  I'm selling this thing when its running again.  Needs a new hood and paint, but not a spot of rust on this baby, and interior is in great condition.  91 civic si, anyone?  Sunroof is tits!

I have 2 good Z6 heads if you need one on the cheap...

valves may always "look" ok, but they usually arent.

Take the cam out, and fill the intake ports with water and watch the valves.... look for seepage.  Next repeat on exhaust side.

look for little marks near the edge of valves where they could have hit pistons...  it usually happens.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: ratcityrex on March 23, 2012, 01:28:08 PM
Quote from: JaredKaragen link=topic=17234.msg205859#msg205859

Take the cam out, and fill the intake ports with water and watch the valves.... look for seepage.  Next repeat on exhaust side.


Thats a good idea. Ill have to remember that one.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: JACER63 on March 27, 2012, 04:32:28 PM
cam seized up due to overtorqued cam caps/oil starvation  ... seen a few times
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: 92CXyD on March 27, 2012, 04:37:13 PM
cam seized up due to overtorqued cam caps/oil starvation  ... seen a few times

Usually when I see somebody over torquing the cam saddle bolts, the bolt breaks.  :noel:
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: JACER63 on March 29, 2012, 01:28:42 PM
cam seized up due to overtorqued cam caps/oil starvation  ... seen a few times

Usually when I see somebody over torquing the cam saddle bolts, the bolt breaks.  :noel:

yes doesnt take much to overtighten the caps.. anything over 18-20 ft lbs will do it. idiot friend of mine did a cam swap once and when it came to torque seq. he said "fuck the book i'll just tighten these by feel".. well 10 mins of running the cam seized and sheared off the key. 
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: Eggylshatch on March 29, 2012, 02:11:06 PM
It would be weird if it was because of overtorqueing, because I don't think the head has been off, and if it has, it hasn't been fora  good while.  It was running for 6 months or so before it shit the bed.  Hoping its not an oil pressure problem.  Never saw an oil light come on while running, but maybe that doesn't mean much for a car from 1991...
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: superdaveosbourne on March 29, 2012, 07:57:24 PM
Oil pressure sending unit could have shit the bed and light would not have come on...  Shitty deal if that happened.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: HiProfile on April 06, 2012, 02:10:57 AM
I got a torque wrench JUST to do cam cap bolts. My big ones work for shit on the small stuff.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: crttaz on April 06, 2012, 11:27:41 AM
Who uses a torque wrench on cam caps????

German spec, Gudntite.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: ratcityrex on April 06, 2012, 02:19:48 PM
Who uses a torque wrench on cam caps????
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: chris on April 06, 2012, 07:44:26 PM
whats a torque wrecn?
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: double fucked?
Post by: JaredKaragen on April 11, 2012, 05:13:52 AM
I think he meant to say Turk wench.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on May 14, 2012, 09:07:11 PM
1st post updated, the bitch still won't start.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: HiProfile on May 15, 2012, 12:30:59 AM
Have you checked there's no spark (crank with plug out & grounded), or are you guessing? Have you smelled the plugs for fuel after cranking? Lifter clearance was set to factory spec and you have compression?
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on May 15, 2012, 10:22:56 AM
I'm guessing on no spark bc I haven't had anyone around to help out. Haven't tested compression, but never touched the lifters so it should be fine- the engine the head came off was running before.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: chris on May 15, 2012, 01:20:07 PM
ignitor ignitor ignitor 99 percent of the time thats your problem



Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Tim on May 15, 2012, 01:45:55 PM
If that's your problem I'll mail u one. I think I owe you because some sensors I promised you that ended up being junk. I'm sure I have a few ignitors though.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on May 15, 2012, 01:54:06 PM
Ignitors are fucking expensive new eh?  It would be the "igniter unit kit" here right? http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=1991&catcgry3=3DR+SI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=1991&catcgry3=3DR+SI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR)

I've got 2 distributors, and neither are working.  Chances good the ignitor died on both of them?  Tim, I'd definitely take you up on the offer.  I'll send you some monies- if you could send it priority that would be tits.  I need to get this thing the fuck out of my driveway, I'm moving in about 2 weeks
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: 92CXyD on May 15, 2012, 01:55:36 PM
I'm guessing on no spark bc I haven't had anyone around to help out. Haven't tested compression, but never touched the lifters so it should be fine- the engine the head came off was running before.

Do you smell fuel in cyl.? (sparkplug should be wet with fuel)

Check compression?

Take a sparkplug attach it to the cyl 1 spark wire (b/c it is the longest).
Place the sparkplug end wedge in the metal of windshield wiper arm.
Make sure the wire is connected to the ign. cap.
Sit in you car crank and watch the plug:

No spark of any kind => double check that ya ground it right and if no spark at all then grab another dizzy.

One large spark and then nothing => ignitor or wire break at ignitor

Lots of Spark and it white hot strong then ignition fine.

Check grounds since you disconnected them when you had the head off.  :noel:

This helped me diagnose a problem: http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignition.html (http://techauto.awardspace.com/ignition.html)
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Tim on May 15, 2012, 02:03:06 PM
I'm working on my pos tonight, I'll throw one in my distributor so I know it works before I send it.
Can you pm me your address just in case I don't have it?

It will be in the mail tomorrow.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: chris on May 15, 2012, 06:29:48 PM
Ignitors are fucking expensive new eh?  It would be the "igniter unit kit" here right? http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=1991&catcgry3=3DR+SI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=CIVIC&catcgry2=1991&catcgry3=3DR+SI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR)

I've got 2 distributors, and neither are working.  Chances good the ignitor died on both of them?  Tim, I'd definitely take you up on the offer.  I'll send you some monies- if you could send it priority that would be tits.  I need to get this thing the fuck out of my driveway, I'm moving in about 2 weeks



I use vatozone ones and they work fine. The chance of both being dead is actually pretty high its what really fails inside the honda dist system. The coils rarely go bad. They seem to have around a 150-170k life span.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Tim on May 15, 2012, 11:33:25 PM
Tested one that is an aftermarket one, worked fine.

I can drop it in the mail tomorrow.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on May 16, 2012, 09:24:58 PM
Tim with the hookup!  I'll try the other shit, but there is definitely fuel spraying into the cylinders, and though I haven't tested compression, as long as I didn't fuck up the head gasket install, it should have compression because it ran okay until the timing belt shredded...
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: chris on May 16, 2012, 09:31:53 PM
even with a half ass job on the headgasket it would start if you had spark/fuel just run terrible
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on May 18, 2012, 03:23:16 PM
Yeah that is what I figured.  I'm guessing its the ignitor.  Not gonna fuck with this car til I get the part from Tim in the mail.  Finally going to do my engine swap in my 95 civic hatch this weekend.  Convert to standard, b20z, gsr tranny, dc header, chris m 70mm tb and ported intake manifold.  Should be a pimpin upgrade over the auto d15!  Then monday I'm building a roof rack for the fucker  :evil:   Will take pictures and post the work later  :Jew:
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: chris on May 29, 2012, 11:46:44 PM
ever get it fixed. If not bust out the test light sir
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Tim on May 30, 2012, 06:31:37 AM
Check the rotor too.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on May 30, 2012, 11:38:12 AM
Didn't get her fixed.  It backfired through the intake a couple times when I put in the new igniter from Tim, and then it went back to doing the same shit.  So I think for some reason it is burning out the igniter almost instantly.  But I don't really have the time to fuck around with it

I'm selling it Friday, and losing my ass on it, because I have to move to Colorado Saturday.  Fucking sucks, and I hate to give away a pretty damn clean and relatively unmolested 91 civic si, but I don't have any way to keep it without paying for storage for it.  Well, I could store it at my girlfriend's parent's house, but I think I might break up with her soon, so its probably better to get some money for it now than pictures of it on fire later.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Tim on May 30, 2012, 12:40:17 PM
dude pull a plug and check for spark, it takes 5 minutes.
On the last one I was unsure and by myself I unbolted the distributor but left the plug wires on.
With one leg of the distributor touching the valve cover for ground, and the key on, I spun the shaft by hand.
Easy way to check for spark without having to try to watch from the driver seat and crank.

Another question, have you checked the plug order?
I know it sounds dumb but a local kid had a car that would sometimes backfire, but never start.  He had his plug wires off 90.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: chris on May 30, 2012, 06:12:02 PM
No Spark Diagnosis (Honda) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9K78XIhhjAQ#ws)


Guy checks the same way I do for spark
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Eggylshatch on May 31, 2012, 06:01:43 PM
Yeah I triple checked firing order, good to go there.  At this point I'm out of time to work on it because I move Saturday and I'm still sorting all that shit out and packing.  Just gonna cut the losses and sell it.  The dude that's getting the car is a lucky fucker- hope he realizes that, and gives someone else a hookup one of these days.
Title: Re: Fuuuuuck UPDATE: This slut won't start. HELP!
Post by: Teg2boo on June 02, 2012, 11:13:19 AM
The backfire in intake would say bad timing or bad firing order or very very bad valve adjustment.

I would check the timing belt.