:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo
General Category => Engine Management => Topic started by: carkrazed on October 27, 2012, 12:23:57 AM
-
Looking for one. Anyone have any suggestions?
I have an aem tru-boost but it fucking sucks.
Was looking at the turbosmart shit.
-
I was looking for one also but they dont come cheap, I gave up and went with a manual in my beater.
-
For a manual boost controller I rock the good old Kolbalt air compressor regulator. The one that comes with the gause. And then I use the gauge for my fuel pressure on top of my filter. All that for under $30
I was going to run a mac valve for a manual boost controller. I know there is a lot of people running them with great success. But you need to have something to run it. I was going to use ectune to control it. Im sure you could use ms to control it.
-
For a manual boost controller I rock the good old Kolbalt air compressor regulator. The one that comes with the gause. And then I use the gauge for my fuel pressure on top of my filter. All that for under $30
Do you need an adapter for the gauge to fuel filter?
Is there a comparable compressor regulator out there? Or where do you get the Kobalt version?
-
Yes I needed the adapter I got online for $10, and the regulator I got at Lowe's
-
I used a old stock smc (made in china now) 1/4 npt regulator off your advice, works ok, changes a bit with weather though. I always hit boost cut when its cold, the cobalt might be a touch more acurate.
-
I don't think I could ever go back to a mbc after using an ebc. Being able to set the gate crack pressure is the shit. Very noticeable difference in spool.
My AEM works good except that the gate opens and closes under full boost with a fluctuation of like 4 lbs. Wonder if it just needs a new solenoid? Its done it ever since I bought it but it was used so idk.
-
I have never heard anyone say the aem works well. Not sure what they do wrong but everyone hates them.
-
I posted this on another forum and got no responses. Maybe you guys can make some use of this!
I have been messing around with building my own EBC now that MAC valves are becoming very cheap. I am in brainstorming and design phase of this project but I thought it would be cool to share what I have so far. I do not have too much time invested in this so do not be shocked if this is rough so far.
Found a hardware diagram that will work PERFECT for this project. I have already simulated this circuit and tested it for feasibility with standard MAC solenoids used (AEM, Hondata, Neptune, eCtune, ect) and it looks good.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi654.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu270%2FMethodwake%2FPWMDriver.jpg&hash=7282f431872dd0389aa696c773ebef1b40c3cd9e)
Hardware needed would be the driver circuit above, arduino, solenoid, potentiometer and to do something about voltages. No biggie.
Here is the code I busted out really quick. This is not tested so be surprised if it does not work!
// DSMR Boost controller concept code
void setPwmFrequency(int pin, int divisor) {
byte mode;
if(pin == 5 || pin == 6 || pin == 9 || pin == 10) {
switch(divisor) {
case 1:
mode = 0x01;
break;
case 8:
mode = 0x02;
break;
case 64:
mode = 0x03;
break;
case 256:
mode = 0x04;
break;
case 1024:
mode = 0x05;
break;
default:
return;
}
if(pin == 5 || pin == 6) {
TCCR0B = TCCR0B & 0b11111000 | mode;
}
else {
TCCR1B = TCCR1B & 0b11111000 | mode;
}
}
else if(pin == 3 || pin == 11) {
switch(divisor) {
case 1:
mode = 0x01;
break;
case 8:
mode = 0x02;
break;
case 32:
mode = 0x03;
break;
case 64:
mode = 0x04;
break;
case 128:
mode = 0x05;
break;
case 256:
mode = 0x06;
break;
case 1024:
mode = 0x7;
break;
default:
return;
}
TCCR2B = TCCR2B & 0b11111000 | mode;
}
}
long previousMillis = 0;
long interval = 1;
void setup() {
setPwmFrequency(10, 1024);
}
void loop() {
unsigned long currentMillis = millis();
if(currentMillis - previousMillis > interval) {
previousMillis = currentMillis;
int DC = analogRead(0);
DC = map(DC, 0, 1023, 0, 100);
analogWrite(10, DC);
}
}
I will update this later on if I get a chance to work on it. Code is kind of tricky and requires some massaging of a few timers. I calculate it to be at ~31hz but will check with an O-scope to verify.
What is next: All I need to do is program a board with this code and check it with an o scope. I will use the potentiometer to change duty cycle.
Once that is checked and works like it should, I will build the high side of the circuit and check to see if it makes some clicky clack on the solenoid while I check all voltages with o-scope and multimeters.
If all of that works it will be tested with shop air for a proof of concept. If that works all that is left is packaging. Its that easy.
For the over achievers, this would be a perfect foundation for someone to make a fancy boost controller that uses some PID trickery to home in on a selected boost pressure. MAP sensors are cheap cheap cheap! I won't be doing any of that. The only reason I am making this is because I am lazy and am tired of getting out of the car to tweak manual boost controllers on cars that I tune (and its cold outside).
-
If you don't have a PID loop, all you've really got is a fancy MBC that will hold the gate closed longer. PID control/boost targeting is what makes a good EBC shine over an MBC.
-
It would be very simple to have it read a MAP and adjust boost. Program it to activate at 1psi (~2.9 volts on a stock honda), hold shut til 6psi (~4 volts), then do a constant sample input voltage & adjust PWM. One dial would be faster spool ("gain" iirc), the other for max boost. Mine would be labeled min & NOG setting. Spool dial would just select a percentage of voltage between 1psi's voltage and max boost voltage.
This could be done with $5 in Picaxe components and a couple dozen lines of code. With a larger or 2nd chip you could probably interpret the VSS and RPM to make it boost-by-gear too. Or with 3 magnetic reed switches and a magnet on the shift lever.
BTW with a small mosfet, you wouldn't need a heat sink. I have one that deals with 4+ amps driving injectors, and it doesn't even get warm.
-
If you don't have a PID loop, all you've really got is a fancy MBC that will hold the gate closed longer. PID control/boost targeting is what makes a good EBC shine over an MBC.
Adding closed loop control is trivial. I am laying down the foundation for someone to home brew something for cheap if they desire. I could easily add this later but I really want to use it for tuning the shit boxes I deal with on a daily basis. They all come in with ebay manual boost controllers that do not work. I am building a dyno rig that will hook up to their car fast and make fast adjustments and let the customer deal with setting the desired boost.
-
It would be very simple to have it read a MAP and adjust boost. Program it to activate at 1psi (~2.9 volts on a stock honda), hold shut til 6psi (~4 volts), then do a constant sample input voltage & adjust PWM. One dial would be faster spool ("gain" iirc), the other for max boost. Mine would be labeled min & NOG setting. Spool dial would just select a percentage of voltage between 1psi's voltage and max boost voltage.
This could be done with $5 in Picaxe components and a couple dozen lines of code. With a larger or 2nd chip you could probably interpret the VSS and RPM to make it boost-by-gear too. Or with 3 magnetic reed switches and a magnet on the shift lever.
BTW with a small mosfet, you wouldn't need a heat sink. I have one that deals with 4+ amps driving injectors, and it doesn't even get warm.
Thank you for the input! Good idea on integrating a "gain" setting. I was thinking of that also. If I were to make this "polished" and fancy I was thinking of doing a LCD for target boost with some other nobs for gain or other PID type parameters.
I chose Arduino because I am comfortable with it and I have several boards laying around. This can be done on any controller with coding. Arduino is also noob friendly with coding so it is good for the DIY crowd. You can easily burn the chips with the dev board and do a stand alone.
Thanks for the tip about the mosfet. I found that diagram searching online and simulated to check it against my project. It is overkill (I calculate a bit over 0.5 amps sunk from the solenoid) but I will test the hardware soon.
If anyone else wants to expand on what I have feel free. I have calculated the cost of what I am wanting to build at under $45. Add a few more dollars and you could add the map sensor and other goodies easily.
-
Made some progress!
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi654.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu270%2FMethodwake%2F2012-11-10_15-53-01_650.jpg&hash=6d246c4f7ac259b8176219ff38c6298f4a7fc2d2)
That is really the hard part of getting this to work. The foundation is laid. Next step is to add the potentiometer and get it to control the PWM.
Here is the code:
//DSMR boost controller test code 11/10/2012
void setup() {
int ClearREG = 7;
TCCR4B &= ~ClearREG;
int myPrescaler = 5;
TCCR4B |= myPrescaler;
}
void loop() {
analogWrite(7, 128);
}
This is for a Arduino Mega 2560. It can be adapted to an uno if needed. I am integrating the potentiometer next!
-
I got a bit further with this. I have integrated my potentiometer code with the PWM code. Now I can adjust duty cycle with a knob. Here is the vid:
Arduino Boost Controller (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjucsbIBmPY#ws)
Here is the code:
long previousMillis = 0;
long interval = 1;
void setup() {
// initialize serial communication at 9600 bits per second:
Serial.begin(9600);
int ClearREG = 7;
TCCR4B &= ~ClearREG;
int myPrescaler = 5;
TCCR4B |= myPrescaler;
long previousMillis = 0;
long interval = 1;
}
void loop() {
unsigned long currentMillis = millis();
if(currentMillis - previousMillis > interval) {
previousMillis = currentMillis;
int DC = analogRead(A0);
DC = map(DC, 0, 1023, 0, 255);
analogWrite(7, DC);
Serial.println(DC);
}
}
The only thing left is to incorporate a control circuit and make some noises with the solenoid. After that it is packaging and finished project. Easy peasy.
-
who was it on here years ago that went into designing and building a ebc? Did it ever work?
-
No love for a RHMT boost controller? My post count is not high enough or something? Anyone want a programmable EBC at :Jew: prices?
-
whats the rise and fall time on that squarewave? Shit looks better than most function generators, but it could be the time setting on your scope.
-
whats the rise and fall time on that squarewave? Shit looks better than most function generators, but it could be the time setting on your scope.
Rise time is really small. At 200ns/division it is 48ns.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi654.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu270%2FMethodwake%2F2012-11-13_01-44-43_66.jpg&hash=4889d9e2629cbb8975b26e8b1eaca30c09e7131c)
Looks like a nasty ring up there! Its not really that bad for this application though. The base resistor eliminates this ring.
-
Good project. Kind of want to build one just to build one.
-
if I knew how i would build this. integrate bbg and hook a nog up.
-
Badass!!
Ive thought about using an arduino to run a mac valve on several occassions. Just never had the time.
Nice work man.
-
Rise time is still really good and even the rings not that bad. Better than I expected from an arduino.
-
What the fuck? Make your own thread for this. Also, conside having multi-dimension adjustment.... the ability to drop boost if EGT goes too high or O2 lean.
-
I like this thread. I would like it even more if I didn't use a valve and Neptune for my boost control.
-
Thanks for the kind words.
Since I have gotten a good response with this, I am going to implement stage 2 of development which is a closed loop control system. I just got my power supply from the house which will replicate a map sensor voltage that I can shift and test responses.
I will also incorporate a quick spool function into this (Very easy to incorporate)
JD, Way ahead of you on dropping boost based on input. Already got the code for that figured out in my head.
BBG is a no go because there are too many different vehicles out there. I could integrate boost vs speed with a gps module if enough people were interested.
I guess I will start up a new thread with my new findings when I get a chance. Please keep the ideas flowing so we can have the best DIY RHMT :Jew: EBC!
If anyone wants to build this, I say go ahead and do it! I tested it and it works!
-
Easier to offer an 05+ CANbus only OBD2 plug in, IMO. Earlier scan speeds on critical PIDs suck on some vehicles without bribing the OEM for internal highspeed loggin protocols. Anyway, CANbus; set up an N/V gear judge and also be able to select safety trip points based on internal calculated parameters like inferred exhaust flange/O2 tip/catalyst temps, exceed programmed MAF limits, etc.
-
Easier to offer an 05+ CANbus only OBD2 plug in, IMO. Earlier scan speeds on critical PIDs suck on some vehicles without bribing the OEM for internal highspeed loggin protocols. Anyway, CANbus; set up an N/V gear judge and also be able to select safety trip points based on internal calculated parameters like inferred exhaust flange/O2 tip/catalyst temps, exceed programmed MAF limits, etc.
Thank you for your response. I have all the hardware to fiddle with CAN bus but have not had the time to dedicate to protocols and such. You have a really good idea that I will have to look into. Are the protocols all the same for the years you mention (Ford, Chrysler, Hyundai, Nissan)? Other issues would be complexity of my rig being set up for any car. This will have to evolve to some sort of LCD that the user can program. Only issue is how complex it would be. I would rather use a droid app to program this maybe?
I would develop your idea as maybe stage 4 of my trailer park EBC. I am finished with stage 1 so now I am at stage 2 which is getting closed loop to work correctly. Stage 3 I will need help with. It is packaging everything on a custom PCB and doing some sort of UI other than telling people to change it in the code. At that point I would need someone other than myself testing this and breaking it before it can be nog approved.
-
You might be onto something with the droid (and iPhaggot!) app - why load up the device with expensive extra hardware when everyone has a smart phone? Bluetooth and go, let the app+phone be the interface. Also script a simple interface for laptops with bluetooth so the tuner doesn't have to kludge around with multiple bits of gear while tuning the car. BT modem and CANbus chip is cheaper than a screen.
Before we get in too deep - avoid providing too much support as a standalone boost controller. If you can do it so it works great as a simple standalone EBC then it will sell as one, but don't get too deep. There is already a huge market for this, and the competition is innovative as far as that goes. The multi-dimensional (EGT, AFR) angle is already covered by the Plex unit, IIRC. But tailoring yourself to the CANbus market lets you do practically all vehicles in the last eight model years correctly off of a generic API. Tailoring your product to newer cars is the market where the money is at, and the last $50 you think you are worth isn't quibbled over if the product works as advertised.
Anyway, read up on J2534 (Drewtech's site is best) and go from there. It's not a big deal to do most everything you need via generic PIDs. I can possibly sniff a couple juicy enhanced PID addresses from Ford/GM/Honda/Scoob/Mitsu/other with the gear I have laying around, and if I get the EASE software I can also do Chevy, Chrysler, and probably a whole lot more. I'm happy to help as much as possible with stage 3, but that is slightly exceeding the limits of my ability. Happy to put you in touch with folks that would probably steer you right, or pitch a hand in, for the sake of geekery.
-
Jorsher on here is your guy for phone apps. I don't think he works free, but he might work for a percentage if you want to make a business go of it.
-
Aaaaand, http://j2534-3.sourceforge.net/ (http://j2534-3.sourceforge.net/)
-
Thank you for the wealth of knowledge! I have not had a chance to do any further testing because I am finishing working on a DSM (97 with 98 ECU with Ceddy mods). The car came in with plethora of problems so I have been swamped!
I really have no intention of selling the EBC I make. I wanted to do something for the DIY guys for cheap! The only thing that I might sell is a custom PCB for everything but that is optional. I would like this all to be open source. All my code and methods will be posted for all to see. This is the main reason I chose the Arduino controller ;)
I have dabbled in cell phone apps before and can stumble my way through it if I have to. When I get that far I will seek help from people who can actually code! Getting the app to talk with the Arduino is fairly simple to do though!
-
Been through a couple cars on CeddyMods, works nicely. I have a spare 98 Mirage ECU (same motherboard) I flashed with CeddyMods if you need one I currently have a 2WD dyno so most AWD cars go elsewhere, and the 2WD DSM community are super rare.
-
Been through a couple cars on CeddyMods, works nicely. I have a spare 98 Mirage ECU (same motherboard) I flashed with CeddyMods if you need one I currently have a 2WD dyno so most AWD cars go elsewhere, and the 2WD DSM community are super rare.
I like ceddy mods better than link for some reason. I always thought that link was trying to force your hand to tune it "their" way rather than the way you would tune anything else. Line up your injectors, remove boost cut, check everything and your set. Had it done within 4 or 5 flashes and it is OBD2 compliant. I had to ghetto rig a pin in the ECU for the 97 but luckily no bricked ECU. CEL on knock works great! Closed loop on the car really helped fill all the gaps and the knock sensor safety nets the stock engine pretty well. Car did not make the power that it should but I really think it was bottlenecked somewhere. Car was a 97 GST spyder. Made 276hp/302tq at 20ish psi. Owner wants 300.
Off topic but I wanted to pick your brain on the 02 Mirage LS ECU's. Rumor has it that they can be reflashed with tephra's latest blend. If so, those ECU's are much cheaper than the EVO's. I would love to just switch DSM's over to that for the enhanced logging and real time tuning (not to mention it would be cheaper than link with faster datalogging and better processor). What say you?
-
What cars make and what their owners want are sometimes three different things.
Not a fan of Sliderbarzzzz. But I don't care about real time tuning - the more I tune the more it presents itself as a crutch for the incompetent to finger jab until the problem goes away. This often results in a poorer outcome than understanding what tou are doing, measuring, calculating, and making a change off of what the motor actually wants.
-
You make a good point about real time tuning. Technology has spoiled us. Back in the day it was moving around values in hex to get the desired result. This meant that you had to have a full understanding of the disassembly of the ROM along with how your changes would affect the car. Now all a tuner has to do is beat on a keyboard while watching a wideband.
Back on topic:
PID loop is in full motion. I have found a wonderful PID library that also includes an app to help tune in your values. The app opens up a window that displays real time values of all your I/o's, setpoint, and the controllers Ki, Kd, and Kp values in real time. I will be making a rig to test this on before implementation.
Mr. Davis has inspired me not to finger jab my tuning of the PID so I will use Ziegler-Nichols method of PID control tuning. It is still experimental but it seems to be a crowd favorite in the control theory world.
-
Link me to PID library plox?
-
Link me to PID library plox?
http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/PIDLibrary (http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/PIDLibrary)
Is what I will be using. He did a GREAT job on this. Here is his blog: http://brettbeauregard.com/blog/2011/04/improving-the-beginners-pid-introduction/ (http://brettbeauregard.com/blog/2011/04/improving-the-beginners-pid-introduction/)
Here is the "Front End" which is the process I will be using to tune the K parameters with: http://brettbeauregard.com/blog/category/pid/front-end/ (http://brettbeauregard.com/blog/category/pid/front-end/)
As of now I have everything working and just need to sit down and test. MUCH credit needs to be given to Mr. Beaurgard for his work on this! So far by looking at his code, this should rival any industrial PID system.
-
What about this?
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Independent-Electronic-Boost-Control-Part-2/A_2542/article.html (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Independent-Electronic-Boost-Control-Part-2/A_2542/article.html)
-
What about this?
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Independent-Electronic-Boost-Control-Part-2/A_2542/article.html (http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Independent-Electronic-Boost-Control-Part-2/A_2542/article.html)
Thanks for the link. Very interesting how they used IJPW as the control element to control boost. My train of thought on this would be to use a map sensor with actual closed loop to control this though. Are there any arguments you might have that would suggest using injector PW would be a better method to use rather than using target PSI and Ki Kp and Kd? I am always open to suggestions, thanks.
Edit: Their kit is $190! We can make one for :Jew: $$
I plan on this being $70 MAX with all the bells and whistles. So far my parts are into the $50 range.
-
Got the PID test code to work:
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi654.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu270%2FMethodwake%2FPIDTEST.jpg&hash=6d6efb04e50ac5fbe7c0ea1045b02a5b63dcd26c)
This is just provided test code that I verified with my Oscope. Looks to be working great! Next is to port all of this into my code for some closed loop goodness.
I am going to build a test rig to test my solenoid using shop air. Should be interesting. Stay tuned.
-
Well count me in. I am a massive ardino fan. You should check out "holset he351 know were its at" over on the forced induction section. Yes I am far to lazy to cut and paste on this fucking iPad. I recommend you use the pid lines from my code for the holset controller. As I recall the library was written for much slower processes like temp or levels in a large tank. The one I used started with a program that was written for servo control and then stripped down even more from there. It should be more then fast enough and use much less overhead.
Also, back in day a little bit, I remember the old ms1 boost controller. It was just the GM solenoid a fet and a map of rpm vs throttle position. The cells in the map were just filled with the solenoid pulse widths. So you had to guess to make it work. it was cool having it based on tps because you could have that control back instead of just spooling up and peeling out all over the place. At the time there was a pid pressure map capability, but most people had trouble making it work on 59000 different engines. Ie not a 350. I think you can still look at the ms1extra code for "inspiration"
The phone thing has me intrigued. Maybe using the accelerometer in the phone as a from of launch control? There are already some apps out there that get a whole lot done by using the GPS/accelerometer. Most of its for road racing but I'm sure there are other possibilities. Gear detection is one that comes to mind, so having a boost by gear set up and using the g-meter/GPS to figure witch gear it's in. If you could make the can interface work you would not even need the gps. If there was a way to somehow work a 2-step, and a nice looking delay box into that (I have now idea how) then it would be something you couldn't go to the drag strip without.
Before i go to far off into game changing app land I should point out that I don't know jack shit about phones, most of my knowledge is limited to electronics and embedded programming. I would like to lend a hand just let me know. My holset project is pretty much dead now. I think I should go update my thread.
Ps. wholly thread jack batman
-
Well count me in. I am a massive ardino fan. You should check out "holset he351 know were its at" over on the forced induction section. Yes I am far to lazy to cut and paste on this fucking iPad. I recommend you use the pid lines from my code for the holset controller. As I recall the library was written for much slower processes like temp or levels in a large tank. The one I used started with a program that was written for servo control and then stripped down even more from there. It should be more then fast enough and use much less overhead.
Also, back in day a little bit, I remember the old ms1 boost controller. It was just the GM solenoid a fet and a map of rpm vs throttle position. The cells in the map were just filled with the solenoid pulse widths. So you had to guess to make it work. it was cool having it based on tps because you could have that control back instead of just spooling up and peeling out all over the place. At the time there was a pid pressure map capability, but most people had trouble making it work on 59000 different engines. Ie not a 350. I think you can still look at the ms1extra code for "inspiration"
The phone thing has me intrigued. Maybe using the accelerometer in the phone as a from of launch control? There are already some apps out there that get a whole lot done by using the GPS/accelerometer. Most of its for road racing but I'm sure there are other possibilities. Gear detection is one that comes to mind, so having a boost by gear set up and using the g-meter/GPS to figure witch gear it's in. If you could make the can interface work you would not even need the gps. If there was a way to somehow work a 2-step, and a nice looking delay box into that (I have now idea how) then it would be something you couldn't go to the drag strip without.
Before i go to far off into game changing app land I should point out that I don't know jack shit about phones, most of my knowledge is limited to electronics and embedded programming. I would like to lend a hand just let me know. My holset project is pretty much dead now. I think I should go update my thread.
Ps. wholly thread jack batman
Thanks guy. I read your thread ages ago and it looked like solid stuff! The Closed loop code I am tweaking with looks like it will be sufficient. You can adjust sampling times and whatnot inside the library so I think it will be adequate. This of course will be tested though. You may have hit the nail on the head when it comes to overhead. Eventually I will want to port this over to an uno so people wanting to use this code can use the Arduino to burn the chip and place it into a PCB. The mega is a bit more beefier so it will have to be tested with an Uno.
If you have an Uno and an Oscilliscope, I would like to test some of the code to get the frequency correct.
When I get a chance I will go into porting all of this code. I have been kind of busy lately so I have not had a chance to piddle.
I went overkill on the thread jack. My next post on this will be in a new thread. haha
-
Ive got an uno and a gps controler nist traceable frequency standard, bunch of counters and scopes if you wwnt me to check it.
-
any chance this thing with do boost by gear based on rpm vs vss just like most of the honda ecus? with 6 gears plz
-
Here is the boost controller I use for the JRSC setup on my daily driver ... No really.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi174.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw95%2FSpeed_Phreak%2F1995%2520Integra%2FJRSC%2FIMAG1309.jpg&hash=1abe2ffaff1b6112d72e1d83d4a2f80cb3149876)