:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: blade8r on March 16, 2013, 04:40:44 AM

Title: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on March 16, 2013, 04:40:44 AM
had it for the last week now. got to say I'm really impressed by it. White Sxt, 1.4 turbo, 6 speed with uconnect and popular option perk. also was purchased at a discounted rate. should of spent more for the Ralle model. but i wanted to save 2 grand.

should of take pics of my ride but i figured they are already out there on the web. so the pics below are from the interweb

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.gtcarlot.com%2Fpictures%2F69437568.jpg&hash=a12574ea555838a5accf28e892492ef36a61d2ce)
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.gtcarlot.com%2Fpictures%2F69437604.jpg&hash=3e4d64a21d3090437cc8d350f54f7ad0b7dd8b76)

anyways first mod was to put an Cold Air Intake. required removal of the bumper, what a pain in the ass. anyways will upgrade more stuff as long as the wife lets me.

what do you guys think about this car.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: 92CXyD on March 16, 2013, 07:24:44 AM
I'm impressed with the engine, they use Fiat's Multi-Air system. (same as the Fiat 500)

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ft2.gstatic.com%2Fimages%3Fq%3Dtbn%3AANd9GcQnghv8MRtBOrj4c5InhFyb1VDrDPY5BFLzBvPJTyTszFzDMWGL&hash=43cc49c12783f4a22f71f024c1e7698c8865faf5)

explanation: http://youtu.be/Td9Gz_h7Qpg (http://youtu.be/Td9Gz_h7Qpg)



Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Minor Threat on March 16, 2013, 04:53:04 PM
How much?

I like them, but if you're not buying a base model they seem really expensive.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: HiProfile on March 16, 2013, 08:08:29 PM
It's actually really cool, they use solenoids to dictate when to let the pressure the cam build to open and close the valve.

I'd guess in the near future, if not already, they'll have reflashes that let you tune the cam - beyond simple boost & ignition changes. I could see someone putting a larger cam in there with software upgrades and have some really interesting results. It could allow stock drivability on a camshaft with crazy lift & duration.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on March 16, 2013, 09:48:34 PM
my model had a base price of $17,995 however, i had added features witch brought up to $21075. I also decided to add the extra gap insurance and the extended warranty (through Oem 70k/7 year manufacture) it came to be around $23,150 plus taxes and all the other stuff before discounts.

the car was under promotion for instant $3500 savings through my local dealer (i assume it was a local 1 time promotion) and also had the $750 cash back March Deal. Got it out the door for $19,200ish range including tax and delivery, so not a bad deal.

the transmission has a 5 year 100,000 miles warranty so it's not a bad buy at all. i mostly bought it because i was tired of the never ending quests of fixing my 23 year old miata. it was time i actually spoil myself. I'm happy either way, even though the wife wants to hog it all the time.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on March 16, 2013, 10:11:55 PM
It's actually really cool, they use solenoids to dictate when to let the pressure the cam build to open and close the valve.

I'd guess in the near future, if not already, they'll have reflashes that let you tune the cam - beyond simple boost & ignition changes. I could see someone putting a larger cam in there with software upgrades and have some really interesting results. It could allow stock drivability on a camshaft with crazy lift & duration.

oh i would love this option. I remember back when i had a Neon srt4 they didn't even have a tuning path upgrade for the ecm. it was all about map clamps and Waste gate actuators to mod your car. it was really a fast but a really crappy drive back in the beginning. there was alot of partial throttle boost issues, and the community didn't have the flashable knowledge of what they have today.

i would think that there is some who are looking into having a tunable solution, where we can have more fuel/timing control on the engine performance. but they'll have to wait till they reverse engineer/flash the factory ecu. untill then the only option are digital tuned piggy back controllers for partial control on fuel.

first real mod i would like to do would be to yank out the stock turbo compressor to upgrade it to something bigger. (this mod doesn't exist yet but was done with the Neon srt4 as it had an integrated exaust/turbo manifold. I'm pretty sure someone is coming up with the idea of building it). the car is heavy at 3200 lbs and with only 160hp/184tq it's terribly moderate when it comes to speed. i don't know how to explain it as it's not a slouch yet it is gutless at the same time. i would love it if it had like 200whp 200lbs+wtq. but without a permanent tunable solution. the conservative factory tune doesn't help out at all.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: random-strike on March 16, 2013, 11:41:24 PM
i like them.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: ratcityrex on March 17, 2013, 12:58:16 AM
I'm courious to see the srt4 version when/if it comes out.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: crxvtec91 on March 18, 2013, 09:59:05 AM
1.4l.....
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on March 18, 2013, 01:09:07 PM
1.4l.....

That's my thought. Big car with a tiny engine and to top it off, dodges wonderful EMS that seems to never idle properly. I have never met a happy dodge owner
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Minor Threat on March 18, 2013, 07:46:31 PM
Isn't this Fiat EMS?
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on March 18, 2013, 08:07:59 PM
then they might be on to something. dodge should stick to building trucks with hemi's and let someone else figure out how to run it. id prefer to have my car tuned by helen keller than dodge
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: 92CXyD on March 19, 2013, 12:11:21 AM
Isn't this Fiat EMS?

EMS is a modified Fiat flashable ems
 
 The Dart is based on a version of the Fiat Compact platform, like the Alfa Romeo Giulietta but enlarged 1.5 in (38 mm) in width and with a 3.7 in (94 mm) longer wheelbase that is now called the Compact U.S. Wide (CUSW) platform. Development cost of the Dart was US$1 billion and took about 18 months to design the Dart on the platform of the Alfa Romeo Giulietta adapted to U.S. requirements.
~ Wiki

BTW
 Marketwatch regarded the Dodge Dart as one of "The 8 biggest product flops of 2012", noting that Chrysler managed to sell only 4,500 Darts in November, compared to the Honda Civic and Toyota Corolla, which sold 30,075 and 22,255 units, respectively.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: crxvtec91 on March 19, 2013, 11:02:31 AM
I dont get most car compines now a days, BIG car with small tiny engine...

Whats so hard about big engine, light car, and lean burn on the high way? Loads of fun and good mpg.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: carkrazed on March 19, 2013, 01:13:53 PM
Just think if you put all this technology into a CRX HF and didn't have to worry about emissions or safety bullshit. We'd be getting 100+ mpg by now.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on March 19, 2013, 01:48:34 PM
For me the biggest reason of buying the car was simply the fact that I'm getting old. I don't have the tenacity to be fucking around with cars unreliably anymore. I bought a car that's already boosted and has a warranty. For me, I eventually plan to have a kid pretty soon. That safety and emission bullshit, I believe in that crap. I wouldn't ever want to be in an accident in a crx. The truth is that they really did market this car for my needs. i probably still put some bolt on turbo stuff and when availble a simple tune. I honestly think I can get 200whp reliably and still get my 39 mpg (so long as I stay out of boost).

this engine produces more torque then hp 200whp is more then enough to have fun with. It'll be like an lsvtec in a crv sized/weight ride.

But to each their own.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Minor Threat on March 19, 2013, 11:29:52 PM
then they might be on to something. dodge should stick to building trucks with hemi's and let someone else figure out how to run it. id prefer to have my car tuned by helen keller than dodge

There is nothing Dodge makes that is worth owning.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: NoPistons! on March 20, 2013, 03:03:52 AM
I'm not sure how i feel about new fangled mfg bullshit but if the shoe fits why not?  At least it's a turbo car!

then they might be on to something. dodge should stick to building trucks with hemi's and let someone else figure out how to run it. id prefer to have my car tuned by helen keller than dodge

There is nothing Dodge makes that is worth owning.


That reeks of domestic bullshit hate.  Tell me if someone dropped a mint '69 charger off in your driveway you wouldn't pop wood and burn that motherfucker down the street to break it in? '69 Charger 500 with 800 hp Hemi sound clip and mini burnout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7beIyN7u55w#)  I wouldn't know how the fuck to act with that.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on March 20, 2013, 11:07:32 AM
I personally have nothing against anything American from the carb days, but American EMS annoys me. Some imports too
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Minor Threat on March 20, 2013, 12:25:54 PM
I'm not sure how i feel about new fangled mfg bullshit but if the shoe fits why not?  At least it's a turbo car!

then they might be on to something. dodge should stick to building trucks with hemi's and let someone else figure out how to run it. id prefer to have my car tuned by helen keller than dodge

There is nothing Dodge makes that is worth owning.


That reeks of domestic bullshit hate.  Tell me if someone dropped a mint '69 charger off in your driveway you wouldn't pop wood and burn that motherfucker down the street to break it in?  I wouldn't know how the fuck to act with that.

I'm not hating, but have you ever driven an old muscle car that hasn't had a ton of money thrown at it's suspension and tires and brakes? Yes, they're amazing at doing burnouts and they look awesome but a $500 bone stock ED/EF chassis has better ride quality by a mile. Obviously this goes out the window if you start updating everything but that's exactly my point, you need to update everything for it not to suck so much.

I'm also talking new Dodge, and not new Dodge that's actually a Fiat (or someone else's design.) The cars are all overpriced, plastic'd piles with garbage front suspension. See (300, Charger)

No domestic hate, I like a lot of the new Ferd stuff and the LSx motors give me boners all over the place.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: random-strike on March 20, 2013, 12:48:20 PM
Not exactly. Chevelles and other big cars ride like a dream.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on March 20, 2013, 12:55:19 PM
In a straight line. I have never been in an old carbd American car that didn't body roll like nobody's business. Every one was nice on the highway though.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: random-strike on March 20, 2013, 01:10:50 PM
In a straight line. I have never been in an old carbd American car that didn't body roll like nobody's business. Every one was nice on the highway though.

body roll is part of ride quality.

a plush car will have body roll so they aren't ridged around corners.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: keelay on April 26, 2013, 04:48:28 PM
I forgot they brought that back. I opened this hoping to see some nog log slant six garbage. I am left wanting...
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 26, 2013, 05:00:30 PM
So, Richard, does this thing still run?

Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Speed Phreak on April 26, 2013, 09:59:44 PM
It's a rebadged neon, it'll need wheel bearings on all 4-corners at 60k miles.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on April 27, 2013, 12:10:44 PM
So, Richard, does this thing still run?



If it has dodge EMS I'm sure it's been back to the dealership at least twice. If it really is fiat EMS then it should be fine
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Phate on April 27, 2013, 11:52:31 PM
So, Richard, does this thing still run?



If it has dodge EMS I'm sure it's been back to the dealership at least twice. If it really is fiat EMS then it should be fine

Its a combination of dodge and fiat/alfa engineering.  What could possibly go wrong?
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 28, 2013, 01:03:19 PM
So, Richard, does this thing still run?



If it has dodge EMS I'm sure it's been back to the dealership at least twice. If it really is fiat EMS then it should be fine

Its a combination of dodge and fiat/alfa engineering.  What could possibly go wrong?

Zing
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: j.h.christ on April 28, 2013, 11:18:33 PM
Sounds like a 1.8t, only shittier
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: runsfromdacops on April 29, 2013, 03:45:28 PM
i dont think you can get any shityer then the 1.8t..
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 29, 2013, 03:59:09 PM
i dont think you can get any shityer then the 1.8t..

Turbo Scoob.  Don't let the world class chassis/suspension smokescreen your ass into thinking the drivetrain isn't a complete turd.  Everytime I drive one and like it, I'm doing math in the back pf my head about how much it'd cost to put an LSX or Coyote in it.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: 92CXyD on April 29, 2013, 05:34:16 PM
i dont think you can get any shityer then the 1.8t..

Turbo Scoob.  Don't let the world class chassis/suspension smokescreen your ass into thinking the drivetrain isn't a complete turd.  Everytime I drive one and like it, I'm doing math in the back pf my head about how much it'd cost to put an LSX or Coyote in it.

I wish I could afford a Coyote in my '82 'Stang GT, w/ twins  :noel:
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: j.h.christ on April 29, 2013, 07:30:09 PM
i dont think you can get any shityer then the 1.8t..

i don't take anything that any of spiker's sex slaves say seriously.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: jabberwock on April 29, 2013, 10:27:05 PM
Wife's 1.4t Cruze pleasantly surprised me... might throw a tuner on it for more powerz
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on April 30, 2013, 05:03:54 AM
Yes the car still runs well and dandy have 1800 miles on it so far and I did the whole beat the crap out the engine  break in vs the slow engine break in.

It has been to the dealer twice. Once for a noisy rail on the passenger seat. It was defective or something. And the rear driver door was very stiff. Other then that its been a good car. I've already put an intake and an exhaust. Still going to need to wait for some kind of tune flash support. I can tell this car is very conservative in its tune. But ya good stuff so far.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on April 30, 2013, 05:21:18 AM
apparently this car really retards timing in boost and the piggy back (fic 8 w/boost controller) tuners have got the car @ 190whp and then they reached 90% injector duty cycle. They advanced timing and lowered boost yet they still got this much HP. This car could really use larger injector and a tune. And worse yet we probably won't see a flash option for 2 years at least until they reverse engineer the code in the ecu. Stupid Chrysler ecu. (Its not fiat tuned its Chrysler based completely)

I think it worth mentioning that the tuners think they could probably get 15-20 whp more with some more boost and fuel. Now this assumes using the stock turbo. But its still in the early stages of the veichle history. I mean you never know you could get 250 who out of that tiny ass turbo. Or just upgrade.

Either way the Piggy back right now is the only option. Only time will tell.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Phate on April 30, 2013, 06:04:46 AM
apparently this car really retards timing in boost and the piggy back (fic 8 w/boost controller) tuners have got the car @ 190whp and then they reached 90% injector duty cycle. They advanced timing and lowered boost yet they still got this much HP. This car could really use larger injector and a tune. And worse yet we probably won't see a flash option for 2 years at least until they reverse engineer the code in the ecu. Stupid Chrysler ecu. (Its not fiat tuned its Chrysler based completely)

I think it worth mentioning that the tuners think they could probably get 15-20 whp more with some more boost and fuel. Now this assumes using the stock turbo. But its still in the early stages of the veichle history. I mean you never know you could get 250 who out of that tiny ass turbo. Or just upgrade.

Either way the Piggy back right now is the only option. Only time will tell.

Straight pipe it.  Those little 1.4's sound pretty nasty in the Abarth:
Fiat 500 Abarth (US) Stock Exhaust Sound Check (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoxh-iGtbRI#ws)
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Burntrubber87 on April 30, 2013, 11:14:05 AM
So is it the dart with dual clutch trans, blade?
Hows it drive in traffic and light throttle? I test drove one of the new focui with the "powershift" which is ford's version of the dual clutch tranny and it was herkin and jerkin and not fun to drive part throttle.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: random-strike on April 30, 2013, 02:18:23 PM
you're right they do sound nasty, as in terrible.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on April 30, 2013, 03:17:03 PM
Yea, I don't like the sound much at all. The little turbo whirl is kinda cool :/
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on April 30, 2013, 04:15:53 PM
I have the 6 speed manuel transmission so I can't comment on the ddct. I do know its being replaced with a a 9 speed automatic though don't know what is up with that. Anyways as I have read in the forums there isn't really any problems with those trans.

IMO I think the exhaust is sweet sounding it sounds eeringly similar to my srt4 when I had it. Best stock sounding sub compact car in its segment.

The car dives wonderfully in traffic it gets its full tq from 2k rpms to about 4500 rpms which is around the time you shift your car normally. It has a kill bit of turbo lag in the low rpms. It doesn't hit full boost till 2200-2300 rpm at wot. BTW that's 21psi of boost. Anyways the boost is controlled electronically by a solenoid so there is no part throthle boost of any sort. Also passing cars on the freeway isn't any harder order then any other car with its similar power to weight ratio.

Anyways although I agree its a neon replacement its miles ahead comfort and look wise then the neon had looked like. But like many others including myself it could of used more power  in the top end. 160 crank HP is not bad by any means. Its just could of used 30 HP or a 500 lbs weight reduction.bthats what it could of really used.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on April 30, 2013, 04:24:27 PM
Oh ya I should mention that is some, not all the time but every now and then some kind of lag input. This is seen esp in the lower rpm. The car is drive by wire and There is some kind of built in throttle adjustment to correct throttle spike and dampen throttle closing. Some times it gives you accel issues. Rarely but I've seen it in my own vehicle. I think it all boils down to a tuning issue. But it still drives very well.

The turbo is sized well for this car as its just the right size of small for not so slow boost to also big enough to see good power. But again it still the beginning we still haven't maxed the stock turbo yet as a community.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on April 30, 2013, 06:24:54 PM
My 07 si had the drive by wire bullshit. It had its leggy moments. Overall it wasn't an issue, but blipping the throttle to go over speed bumps or up into my garage sucked. Supposedly it could be fixed with a reflash from the dealer or the Hondata reflash or flashpro. I sold the car before doing any of that.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Joseph Davis on April 30, 2013, 10:50:20 PM
Its not a DBW hiccough.  It's the car falling apart.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: j.h.christ on May 01, 2013, 12:50:57 AM
Fix It Again, Tony!
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on May 01, 2013, 01:14:27 AM
Its not a DBW hiccough.  It's the car falling apart.

lol to the man with the smiling tom baker fourth doctor avatar.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on May 01, 2013, 01:19:58 AM
btw slightly off topic this is my doctor

"I bring you breath from my lungs"
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_ltjffudVQ61qcji8c.gif&hash=563e9292c3d7a82412410329fad6b18783c9b993)
"Fantastic"
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: HiProfile on May 07, 2013, 01:20:29 AM
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FVwqSsL-sdzs%2F0.jpg&hash=c4e261631cd95fa487412a626b33d3a489187fbd)


OK
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 08, 2013, 04:06:28 PM
Fuck you, I'm out of here.

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpij72y2i31r0rplbo1_250.gif&hash=d02c29b3d366fc383db402520279b10c292bfde7)
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on May 12, 2013, 09:23:25 PM
Fuck you, I'm out of here.

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lpij72y2i31r0rplbo1_250.gif&hash=d02c29b3d366fc383db402520279b10c292bfde7)

wibbly woobly timmy whimy stuff
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Joseph Davis on May 12, 2013, 09:24:54 PM

wibbly woobly timmy whimy stuff

I like the new stuff, but you'll notice I'm not repping it.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: special ed on June 04, 2013, 04:54:52 PM
I was researching Lancia Deltas a while back and discovered that it is technically a distant relative to the Dart and I was like
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_lz56jpNygA1r1xmc5.gif&hash=98480be561ab02055c86c6df2f40445b6407eaea)
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: 92CXyD on June 11, 2013, 03:08:46 PM
Did your car get recalled?

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblog.aspx?feat=b03dd58b-f733-4198-a0f7-b5cb0e5a38d3 (http://editorial.autos.msn.com/blogs/autosblog.aspx?feat=b03dd58b-f733-4198-a0f7-b5cb0e5a38d3)

Chrysler is recalling 14,800 Dodge Dart sedans to fix sudden stalling, the automaker said Monday evening.

The 2013 Dart can stall shortly after being started. In company testing, Chrysler said a Dart stalled after being started in below-freezing temperatures and that Dodge dealers have reported "similar incidents." The recall affects only Dart models equipped with the optional turbocharged 1.4-liter MultiAir engine and dual-clutch automatic transmission. About 12,900 of the cars are in the United States, Chrysler said.

Dealers will reprogram the engine control unit at a later date. Dart owners can call Chrysler at 1-800-853-1403 for more information.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: blade8r on June 13, 2013, 02:32:20 AM
never stalled on me once. other then me stalling the car for being a bitch and not throttling in. also no SRS lights of any sort i can see. i live in socal so the temps never get below 50 year round so i can't for the life of me test to see how this works in below freezing condition. and the posts say something about the DDCT equipped models which isn't mine.

i had my car in the dealer 5 days ago and there wasn't anything mentioned to me. I was getting a reflash/update for my radio because the stupid thing would randomly turn on by itself. if there was a recall i assume they would of let me in on it. i did ask them to check if there is any thing mandated through Chrysler that was needed and they said no.
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 13, 2013, 06:11:30 AM
So, does it get the chicks?
Title: Re: My new turbo daily driver Dodge dart
Post by: PhilStubbs on June 15, 2013, 10:13:44 AM
At the dealership? Sounds like a dodge