:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => Hybrid/Tech => Topic started by: 97Econobox on June 24, 2009, 02:08:15 PM

Title: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: 97Econobox on June 24, 2009, 02:08:15 PM
So everybody says Cuttin springs is bad MMkay, and everyone ive seen is usually a trampoline but then again i cant think of one of them that had aftermarket struts.  it was always the 100K mile stockers with springs cut in half or whatever.

well im surfin the Kotex and i come aross this.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4264492 (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4264492)

So if you scroll down basicly dude tracks cause its fun and well, sold his boxter to track his 95 Passat wagon.  he admits the porshe is a) a shitbox and B) is better for the track than the passat but said he couldnt stop grinning whipping the giant ledsledd around the track.  so in his quest to find resonably priced, quality suspension he found that most aftermarket companies actually use a reduced spring rate and instead of a change in Static heigth to actually lower the car.  so in most cases you are switching to a car with a softer spring rate than normal.  so he hacked a coil or two out of his springs.

So after all that I know nuthin botu nuthin and My first thoghts are hes full of shit.  Ive seen  some aftermarket springs for Honda Specificly that were far shorter than their counterparts.  hell dont even need a spring compressor to put em on so obviously they are shorter. and B) if you cut the damn coils ...arent you dropping and or fuckign up the spring rate anyway?  obviously if its usign the coils n shit and you cut em out i would think you just lessened the spring rate due to not having as many coils.

So is this like speshul VW gay magic or am i missing something entirely.  Someone School me.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: 97Econobox on June 24, 2009, 02:27:26 PM
Non Kotex approved Intake done FooWee Style. for Clicks or something.
(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi23.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb385%2Fcamaromusl%2FIMAGE_041.jpg&hash=3a10d72151de61f53c86966a0be9eb241bde3db7)
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 24, 2009, 02:38:58 PM
A shorter spring is a stiffer spring, and you are a faggot.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: crttaz on June 24, 2009, 03:36:54 PM
A shorter spring is a stiffer spring,

vague statment JD..........

So your saying a 0600.250.0600 spring is stiffer than a 0800.250.0800 spring????

inconceivable
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Ravage70 on June 24, 2009, 03:46:03 PM
A shorter spring is a stiffer spring,

vague statment JD..........

So your saying a 0600.250.0600 spring is stiffer than a 0800.250.0800 spring????

inconceivable
...
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: 97Econobox on June 24, 2009, 04:05:28 PM
Ok so you're building a Damn Shock Dyno and then you say a smaller spring is a stiffer spring....  so either You have uncontrolled knowledgabilities or my full head of hair is preventing me from catching your sarcasm lol.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: rawr on June 24, 2009, 04:34:34 PM
Who would soften the springs so the car sits lower?  That's asking for it.  Especially with how low vwfags go.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 24, 2009, 04:50:31 PM
Chuck, intentionally acting like he doesn't understand what I mean since 1997.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Lowerit on June 24, 2009, 06:34:36 PM
He's saying if you take a 350Lb spring and cut it it will be stiffer.. not comparing a 350Lb 7" spring to a 10" 350Lb spring.

someone smarter then me (actual engineer on a real race team) said that the rule of thumb is that for every 1 coil removed you add 10% stiffness.

Since most fags run ebay coilovers  it doesn't really matter, you are fucked before u start
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Conceptz-X on June 24, 2009, 09:31:22 PM
Get the old red hammer(torch) apply heat till you get desired height.  You will reduce ride height and rate

Later when spring breaks, have fun
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: bryantaylor on June 24, 2009, 09:42:22 PM
spring rate change when you cut it really depends.  progressive vs. linear, how they were cut, and so on.  but most stock springs and progressive, so it would increase spring rate.

here is a link to find out what your new spring rate would be
http://proshocks.com/calcs/coilsprate.htm (http://proshocks.com/calcs/coilsprate.htm)
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: crttaz on June 24, 2009, 10:39:31 PM
Chuck, intentionally acting like he doesn't understand what I mean since 1997.

I know what you meant, but vague half assed answers like yours create more confusion......

confusion leads to baldness......
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: dvst8r on June 24, 2009, 10:41:45 PM
Chuck, intentionally acting like he doesn't understand what I mean since 1997.
confusion leads to baldness......

Fuck, So that is what happened!
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: fork on June 25, 2009, 12:08:38 AM
If you take a spring then cut part of it off, and measure the stiffness, it will be stiffer after you cut it. 
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: crttaz on June 25, 2009, 01:06:38 AM
If you take a spring then cut part of it off, and measure the stiffness, it will be stiffer after you cut it. 

Not always.

With a straight single rate spring, yes.

With some progrsesive rate springs, no change since the "soft" area of the coils only act as a separate tender spring would, fully compressed under static weight.

Been hanging out with a Koni rep. too long...........should have taken the job, but days like today would be unbearable to be working in a shop cutting shocks apart and welding them back together.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: 97Econobox on June 25, 2009, 08:22:19 AM
Well damn it really sounds like its not a bad way to get like .5 to an inch of drop.  I learned something today.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Doug on June 25, 2009, 09:32:12 AM
Someone cut the springs on my Prelude and it drove like shit. Now this might have been because it was on stock struts, but either way I think I would fork over $200 on some decent lowering springs just to be safe.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 25, 2009, 10:58:47 AM
Chuck, intentionally acting like he doesn't understand what I mean since 1997.

I know what you meant, but vague half assed answers like yours create more confusion......

confusion leads to baldness......

Are you admitting to wearing a wig?  Pot, kettle, black; you are famous for cryptic one liners, sir. 
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 25, 2009, 11:01:42 AM
Since most fags run ebay coilovers  it doesn't really matter, you are fucked before u start

Honestly, the shitty eGay coilovers I bought for $40 (a spring is a spring, and I wanted a selection and didn't want to pay $40-50 per) ended up going to Wes, and goddamn if they don't feel like a dream on his wagon.  440/345 is what the spring formula said they are, which works out better on a 2500lb wagon with a higher center of gravity than a 2000 lb Civic.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: d112crzy on June 25, 2009, 03:31:01 PM
Ebay coils will ride pretty nice on some quality struts. My friend has ebay coils on some not so great KYB AGX and they rode surprisingly well and handled way better than I ever thought they would. They're a bit stiff, but not so much bouncy as most would think.

He did corner weigh his car though(accord).

It would be difficult to get the exact lengths if you cut the springs, but you'll get close enough. Just be sure to get good struts.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: bryantaylor on June 25, 2009, 07:26:00 PM
AGX only can handle stock spring rates. 
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: d112crzy on June 25, 2009, 08:07:59 PM
They handle Neuspeed and eibach sport springs just well. You're thinking of the GR2's.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: dvst8r on June 25, 2009, 08:10:10 PM
Paging Brine04 to the Ebay coils thread, brine04 ebay coil thread.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 25, 2009, 11:04:42 PM
They handle Neuspeed and eibach sport springs just well. You're thinking of the GR2's.

Eibach pro-kit, maybe.  But that's about the mildest spring on the market... and it shows because cars running it still have traction and handle wonderfully.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: 5thgenlx on June 26, 2009, 01:04:30 AM
bilsteins and h&r's, had em on for 5 years now and are just now losing it. 400 bucks well spent
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 26, 2009, 01:26:11 AM
I'll buy your blown bilsteins, sir.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: d112crzy on June 26, 2009, 01:37:49 AM
Where do you get them revalved and how much does it run you, JD?
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: j.h.christ on June 26, 2009, 06:10:27 AM
i couldn't find my sunglasses

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fc2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com%2Fimages02%2F80%2Fl_a45a384eef8b4fa19049a4db87fb6cad.jpg&hash=0d2b55f80625f0d402d97d0c075cd3ca140413ab)
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 26, 2009, 12:47:07 PM
Where do you get them revalved and how much does it run you, JD?

Me, and parts.  You have to build a shock dyno, though.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: bryantaylor on June 26, 2009, 06:06:36 PM
Where do you get them revalved and how much does it run you, JD?
look up fat cat motorsports.  he does a ton of blistein revalveing.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: j.h.christ on June 26, 2009, 06:09:02 PM
Where do you get them revalved and how much does it run you, JD?
look up fat cat motorsports.  he does a ton of blistein revalveing.

yeah, for 1000$+ for a set though?
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: bryantaylor on June 26, 2009, 06:17:14 PM
Where do you get them revalved and how much does it run you, JD?
look up fat cat motorsports.  he does a ton of blistein revalveing.

yeah, for 1000$+ for a set though?
$650
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 26, 2009, 06:17:40 PM
Haha, call bilstein and see how much they charge.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: j.h.christ on June 26, 2009, 06:25:29 PM
Haha, call bilstein and see how much they charge.

what i was getting at is that i can buy new ones for less than that without having to wait on turnaround time, that's all. i don't know much about the subject so i will clam up now.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: d112crzy on June 26, 2009, 07:25:37 PM
You can buy new ones, but they won't be custom valved, unless you pay more.

JD, which shocks can be revalved?
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 26, 2009, 07:39:39 PM
Most anything can be valved.  Stock Honda ones can.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: bryantaylor on June 26, 2009, 07:45:27 PM
Haha, call bilstein and see how much they charge.
i am talking about FCM
http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_Bilstein_shock_revalve_core.htm (http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_Bilstein_shock_revalve_core.htm)
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: dvst8r on June 26, 2009, 10:54:34 PM
Most anything can be valved.  Stock Honda ones can.

If your willing to cut and weld.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Joseph Davis on June 26, 2009, 11:01:22 PM
Haha, call bilstein and see how much they charge.
i am talking about FCM
http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_Bilstein_shock_revalve_core.htm (http://www.fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_Bilstein_shock_revalve_core.htm)

I am talking about Bilstein.  They have centers in Cali and NC.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: dvst8r on June 27, 2009, 12:09:17 AM
JD did you say you built a shock dyno?
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: brine04 on June 30, 2009, 01:31:36 AM
Paging Brine04 to the Ebay coils thread, brine04 ebay coil thread.
Lol
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: dvst8r on June 30, 2009, 11:12:25 AM
Paging Brine04 to the Ebay coils thread, brine04 ebay coil thread.
Lol

Tell the story ebay coils story.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: Zarcorp on June 30, 2009, 05:50:58 PM
A shorter spring is a stiffer spring, and you are a faggot.

Right.

That's the actual length of the coiled rod not free height of the spring, the way it was described last time was with an analogy about leverage, trying to bend a 1ft iron rod versus trying to bend a 4ft iron rod.

That's with a linear spring though, as said before if you cut off the "dead" coils or the ones wound tighter/ with a different diameter on a progressive spring you'd have to work out what your spring rate would be from that point on.
Title: Re: Suspension KNowledge.
Post by: d-rail on July 02, 2009, 04:51:21 AM
Cut spring give the best ride ever............ In a porn van