:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: TTC on December 29, 2009, 11:13:02 AM

Title: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: TTC on December 29, 2009, 11:13:02 AM
Some mag rated some widebands, and I refuse to belive their findings.  For one I don't think the plx is as innacurate as they say.  What you make of these results.

(https://realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.motoiq.com%2FMotoIQ%2FTech%2FThe-Ultimate-Wideband-AF-Meter%2Fwideband-results%2F742096147_J37vC-L.jpg&hash=ea58221cd4a9d004ebe7146825275c6f3f983f85)
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: 92CXyD on December 29, 2009, 11:20:51 AM
How did they test them?

What was testing parameters?

Link to this article, please  ;D
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: TTC on December 29, 2009, 11:43:58 AM
I wish i had it.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Foowee on December 29, 2009, 11:47:08 AM
Magazine test results usually coincide with the number of advertisements in said mag for the items being tested...
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 29, 2009, 11:59:13 AM
Bingo.

I've yet to see an AEM gauge I'd trust.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: TTC on December 29, 2009, 12:14:20 PM
Magazine test results usually coincide with the number of advertisements in said mag for the items being tested...


Yup.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Eville140 on December 29, 2009, 01:29:10 PM
They still make magazines?
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: ironcrx on December 29, 2009, 02:12:16 PM
They still make magazines?


People still dont know how to use computers.  So yea.  Its quite sad really

Im not buying those test results
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Corey on December 29, 2009, 02:17:22 PM
i love how the ntk afx, which should be ngk afx is rated at the bottom, when that is probably the best wideband they tested. they must have refused advertising in that mag.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: 90dx on December 29, 2009, 02:42:21 PM
Lol ya the AEM wideband is great :-X
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: brine04 on December 29, 2009, 03:02:16 PM
Lol ya the AEM wideband is great :-X
it's amazing how many people think they are. I know some people prototyping superchargers on sleds and they use the AEM.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Passenger on December 29, 2009, 03:43:34 PM
I've found the innovate products to be pretty solid.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: TheMadScientist on December 29, 2009, 03:49:42 PM
I have the full zeitronix setup in my evo and the plx m-300 in the civic both are great. The zeitronix is by far the best wideband setup I've ever seen/used it's awesome. Expensive but awesome. However it doesn't look like they got the LCD display with their zeitronix setup. I'm curious how they determined the accuracy of the widebands as well.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: bouncinofftherevlimiter on December 29, 2009, 04:43:03 PM
i love how the ntk afx, which should be ngk afx is rated at the bottom, when that is probably the best wideband they tested. they must have refused advertising in that mag.


The only downfall I have found with my ngk afx is that the range is narrower than most widebands, 9-16 I beleive, but honestly I don't give a shit about the ranges outside that...

I remember reading reviews about it and that was one of the complaints, which I don't know why anyone would want to be richer than 9s, although I might be able to see leaner than 16 for milage tuning.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: bryantaylor on December 29, 2009, 06:38:56 PM
what is so bad about the AEM?  thats what i am currently running.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: turbob16hatch on December 29, 2009, 06:52:21 PM
I hear it is response time is laggy, and some say it isn't accurate.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: TTC on December 29, 2009, 07:51:11 PM
It's to bad because the aem's gauge and price is nice.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 30, 2009, 12:05:25 AM
I've found the innovate products to be pretty solid.

If hard wired in.  Using them as modular tuning gear is a fucking hassle.

The LM-2 is a lot less bitchy than LM-1 and LC-1, but I've only been through four cars with it and my opinion on that might change real fucking quick if it gives me any shit and I have to hit it with a hammer.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Corey on December 30, 2009, 12:27:33 AM
i personally have a zeitronix w/digi screen from back in 04 and its still tits. plus all the parameters you can display/log is win.

if i had to buy a new wideband it would be a ngk probably. the aem looks nice but i think its a little slow.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: snm95ls on December 30, 2009, 01:17:55 AM
I've found the innovate products to be pretty solid.

Same here.

I hated the NGk unit.  The display updates about once a century, and the analog output is useless to me since I most of the tuning I have done has been with freeware.

With a better tuning and datalogging software, I am sure it is less of an issue.

These are the only 2 that I have first hand experience with.

Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: bryantaylor on December 30, 2009, 04:21:35 AM
i had a LC-1 when they first came out a couple of years ago and it was a huge piece of shit.  i hear they are "decent" now though.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: salesmonkey on December 30, 2009, 09:12:39 AM
probably used old sensors in the ones they wanted to test bad and everything new on the sponsers. guy at work brought in a magazine to show me the otehr day because i was talking some about cars and brought up my old turbo civic. i laughed when he brought up that he had a magazine then laughed more when he says he buys everyone of some car magazine. his plan is to buy a skyline in a few years. he also is a wigger. talks pretty normal but dresses like a nigger.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: widebody93 on December 30, 2009, 05:04:40 PM
I still favor the M300
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: 92CXyD on December 30, 2009, 05:16:07 PM
Here is the whole article on this (PDF file 11 pages long):
http://www.paceperformance.com/paceperformance/pdf/widebandshootout.pdf (http://www.paceperformance.com/paceperformance/pdf/widebandshootout.pdf)


I'm still reading this but seems to be interesting. ;D
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: HiProfile on December 30, 2009, 05:23:27 PM
probably used old sensors in the ones they wanted to test bad and everything new on the sponsers.

That makes me think, they should have tried each controller on each sensor. The problem is not each controller has an easy sensor calibration (if any), although that would be another negative point for those controllers. I think this was the ford-related magazine that did that test, I recall it being a big controversy about 1-2 years back. IIRC They used control gases - basicly with X percent of oxygen in each - to test the sensors. They had a big pipe with all the sensors in it and filled the pipe with that gas.

The problem with the results is that any retail part can be bad on occation, even if they have Juan the "scientist" and his brother Julio testing them beforehand. They'd have to pull several random retail samples from different resellers, then drop the best & worst results from each brand. Knowing the standard deviation of each brand is the info I'm most interested in.



BTW AEM users generally have innacurate readings, general malfunctions, and big-time problems when they try to interface their stuff with any PC or EMS. Some people get lucky, but most don't.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 30, 2009, 09:55:48 PM
BTW AEM users generally have innacurate readings, general malfunctions, and big-time problems when they try to interface their stuff with any PC or EMS. Some people get lucky, but most don't.

You forgot about the inaccurate readings from looking at the gauge, when it's not hooked to anything.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: flat_black on December 31, 2009, 12:12:21 AM
I have had a PLX and an innovative LC-1

PLX is easy to remove and install and was very quick however i hated the lack of a 52mm guage but it was accurate according to the dyno i tuned the car on

Innovative i wasnt to impressed with the "DB" guage is super slow but its accurate and more compact more of a pain to hook up calibrate and install

However i just recently installed a New LC1 on my friends D series EK and the guage was alot faster responding mine must be out of date or an older version

I did just buy another LC1 for my Nissan in hopes that it performs like my friends!



Whats wrong with AEM's?

Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 31, 2009, 12:31:56 AM
Whats wrong with AEM's?



Can you read the post immediately above yours?
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: 98vtec on December 31, 2009, 12:32:31 AM
junk
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: widebody93 on December 31, 2009, 01:56:36 AM
I have had a PLX and an innovative LC-1

PLX is easy to remove and install and was very quick however i hated the lack of a 52mm guage but it was accurate according to the dyno i tuned the car on

Innovative i wasnt to impressed with the "DB" guage is super slow but its accurate and more compact more of a pain to hook up calibrate and install

However i just recently installed a New LC1 on my friends D series EK and the guage was alot faster responding mine must be out of date or an older version

I did just buy another LC1 for my Nissan in hopes that it performs like my friends!



Whats wrong with AEM's?


AND WHO THE FUCK-Jeezy ARE YOU
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: snm95ls on December 31, 2009, 02:54:09 PM
How exactly is an LC-1 hard to calibrate?

 :?:
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 31, 2009, 02:57:04 PM
How exactly is an LC-1 hard to calibrate?

 :?:

Pulling the sensor out of the exhaust 2-3 times to recalibrate during a tune eats up a lot of time.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: j.h.christ on December 31, 2009, 02:58:04 PM
I have had a PLX and an innovative LC-1

PLX is easy to remove and install and was very quick however i hated the lack of a 52mm guage but it was accurate according to the dyno i tuned the car on

Innovative i wasnt to impressed with the "DB" guage is super slow but its accurate and more compact more of a pain to hook up calibrate and install

However i just recently installed a New LC1 on my friends D series EK and the guage was alot faster responding mine must be out of date or an older version

I did just buy another LC1 for my Nissan in hopes that it performs like my friends!



Whats wrong with AEM's?


AND WHO THE FUCK-Jeezy ARE YOU

someone who also runs a boat anchor and makes significantly more power than you.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: snm95ls on December 31, 2009, 03:00:03 PM
How exactly is an LC-1 hard to calibrate?

 :?:

Pulling the sensor out of the exhaust 2-3 times to recalibrate during a tune eats up a lot of time.


Why did you have to free air calibrate three times during a tune?

Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Kain on December 31, 2009, 03:02:47 PM
How exactly is an LC-1 hard to calibrate?

 :?:

Pulling the sensor out of the exhaust 2-3 times to recalibrate during a tune eats up a lot of time.


Why did you have to free air calibrate three times during a tune?



how dare you question JD's methods.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: 98vtec on December 31, 2009, 03:04:00 PM
How exactly is an LC-1 hard to calibrate?

 :?:

Pulling the sensor out of the exhaust 2-3 times to recalibrate during a tune eats up a lot of time.


Why did you have to free air calibrate three times during a tune?



x - x = 1
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: snm95ls on December 31, 2009, 03:06:30 PM
It''s a simple question that will most likely be answered, if at all, by a smartass comment about how they are junk and that is the reason why it needed recalibration during a tuning session with some reference to how I must be inept to even ask said question.

Also, not a fan of clearing the pipe and calibrating without removing the sensor?
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Corey on December 31, 2009, 04:14:57 PM
It''s a simple question that will most likely be answered, if at all, by a smartass comment about how they are junk and that is the reason why it needed recalibration during a tuning session with some reference to how I must be inept to even ask said question.

Also, not a fan of clearing the pipe and calibrating without removing the sensor?

ive noticed the lc1 need to be calibrated multiple times to work right. we had to do hotrexs at least 3 times before it worked right. i have no idea why.

how do you "clear" the pipe?
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: ratcityrex on December 31, 2009, 04:23:11 PM
It''s a simple question that will most likely be answered, if at all, by a smartass comment about how they are junk and that is the reason why it needed recalibration during a tuning session with some reference to how I must be inept to even ask said question.

Also, not a fan of clearing the pipe and calibrating without removing the sensor?

ive noticed the lc1 need to be calibrated multiple times to work right. we had to do hotrexs at least 3 times before it worked right. i have no idea why.

how do you "clear" the bong?

Take your finger off the carb and suck.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: Joseph Davis on December 31, 2009, 04:50:47 PM
How exactly is an LC-1 hard to calibrate?

 :?:

Pulling the sensor out of the exhaust 2-3 times to recalibrate during a tune eats up a lot of time.


Why did you have to free air calibrate three times during a tune?



Why did the Innovate wideband throw heater codes with NIB sensors ~three times during several (not "a") tunes, forcing free air calibrations?

And, no, I don't like cranking with injectors disabled to "clear" the system.  It doesn't always work right.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: sewell94 on December 31, 2009, 05:57:06 PM


x - x = 1

i see your x-x=1, with a 1+1=0

I haven't had any issues with my lm1's bedsides having to resolder the power connector.  I must have a magic lm1 beause i dont have the problems other have.  But i do run the power and grounds straight off the battery, and do a heater realibration before every car i tune, i also have a sensor for pump gas, race gas, e85/98, and meth.

one of the best wb wasn't included in the test, the motec. If i were to buy another Wb that would be the one i'd get.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: snm95ls on December 31, 2009, 06:01:45 PM
It''s a simple question that will most likely be answered, if at all, by a smartass comment about how they are junk and that is the reason why it needed recalibration during a tuning session with some reference to how I must be inept to even ask said question.

Also, not a fan of clearing the pipe and calibrating without removing the sensor?

ive noticed the lc1 need to be calibrated multiple times to work right. we had to do hotrexs at least 3 times before it worked right. i have no idea why.

how do you "clear" the pipe?

Elevated RPM, induce fuel cut by whatever means you prefer, and keep the throttle open while the engine coasts down.  then you can recalibrate.  Probably not the most accurate method, but it seems to work okay for me.

I haven't had any issues with heater codes or having to recalibrate in the middle of a tune.  I guess I am one of the lucky ones or I don't do enough tooning.  The latter is probably the most likely scenario.

Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: lilpooh21186 on January 01, 2010, 12:40:54 AM
fuck that mag what do they use to accuratly know the afr 10 dif wb will have 10 diff readings so which is correct.
Title: Re: Magazine rates widebands: I think they are lying
Post by: PhilStubbs on January 01, 2010, 02:25:01 AM


x - x = 1

+1, i have never had any trouble with my lc1. i calibrate once before each tune and look at the plugs to make sure i believe it. i never get any codes and never have to spend any time playing with it. it just works every time.

i am considering running a JAW as a permanent install unit if JD will ever do a write up on it or just sell me his half price so i dont have to worry about them not shippiing it

i see your x-x=1, with a 1+1=0

I haven't had any issues with my lm1's bedsides having to resolder the power connector.  I must have a magic lm1 beause i dont have the problems other have.  But i do run the power and grounds straight off the battery, and do a heater realibration before every car i tune, i also have a sensor for pump gas, race gas, e85/98, and meth.

one of the best wb wasn't included in the test, the motec. If i were to buy another Wb that would be the one i'd get.