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[papercuts]

So I'm at the point in my build where I need to decide on intake manis. I have a d16z6. I have a blox intake, stock intake and a y8 at the house. Witch should I use. Or witch would be better to send to chris to gert ported. Would rather have it ported and matched to a ls throttle body.

[1slow91hf]

either ship him your Z6 or Y8 and have him port the fuck out of it

[chris]

Thats the problem is running that small throttle body. Boosted cars want volume going with a good flowing manifold is great. Running a small throttle body that doesnt allow the manifold to flow is a problem. Thats a huge mismatch in parts. Spend a little more and have a beast.



Joe's 10 sec car should speak volumes for that setup.

[papercuts]

I'm not lookin to run tens or anything.  In runnin 2.25 piping to throttle body. How big of a throttle body should I get. Rite now its a stock bottom end lookin to run low to mid twelves for the time being. I just don't wanna get somthing to big but I know u know ur shit chris so wat should I do.

[Rosario4124]

ported z6 mani , w/ spacer plate and TB from chris = end of conversation 

[chris]

65mm+ regardless I run 65mm on all motor sohc builds. The rule of going to big of a throttle body with boosted cars is another internet rumor,within in reason since you can only get a 70mm throttle body on stock/aftermarket manifold unless you run one of my tapered style throttle body spacers. Your ramming boost into a motor it wants that volume.




This mod is the first thing I do to a car because its cheap and it does the job. If you want to it budget style I cnc machine stock throttle bodies 3mm larger for 90 bucks shipped back to you if you supply a core.

[papercuts]

So u can get more out of porting the z6 mani then porting the obx one?either way how much for porting and one of ur throttle bodies

[crxvtec91]

So u can get more out of porting the z6 mani then porting the obx one?either way how much for porting and one of ur throttle bodies

Obx is cdm junk, what you think it gold? Just send Chris the z6 one.

[papercuts]

No I don't think its gold just figured that maybe just maybe it is a good starting point for porrting. Seeing as the runners are longer and the plenum area is laerger but as stated befor I don't know that is why I am asking. I only gavw 25$ for the obx.  Just waitin on chris to give me a qoute on wat iasked earlier.
 

[chris]

So u can get more out of porting the z6 mani then porting the obx one?either way how much for porting and one of ur throttle bodies

I would not touch an obx manifold. They are poorly designed manifolds and have horrible welds.



Honda got it right you just have to rework it a little.

[papercuts]

Sounds good to me. Just gotta get the moola together for it that's all. Will dwff be the next area I spend some loot on for sure. Then on to pistons and rods then headwork. Thanks for the info everyone. I really don't wanna half ass anything this time aroind.

[ironcrx]

I rock a ported y8 mani on my z6 motor.  Its mated with a stock b18c5 tb 

[92CXyD]

I rock a ported y8 mani on my z6 motor.  Its mated with a stock b18c5 tb 

Thats funny I'm going to be rocking a y8 head with z6 mani and either a h23 tb or a 70mm tb w/ spacer. ;D

Chris if I get another one of my turbos sold on egay I may hit you up for a 70mm tb and spacer.

I was going to use a 70mm tb from a 'stang but fell through.

[Joseph Davis]

I'm not lookin to run tens or anything.  In runnin 2.25 piping to throttle body. How big of a throttle body should I get. Rite now its a stock bottom end lookin to run low to mid twelves for the time being. I just don't wanna get somthing to big but I know u know ur shit chris so wat should I do.

So are you going to make 200 whp and run mid 12's, or are you going to make 300+ whp and only run mid-12's because you fucking suck at driving and your car isn't aligned, sitting on crap tires?

Sorry to be a mouthy ass, but it needed to be said. 

Get 2.5" charge pipe, minimum, it matches up with a 60mm B-series TB which is the MINIMUM you should be running if if you're reppin' the singlecam shit broke.  You can whine for five minutes and somebody'll give you a stock B-series unit, it's retarded to keep the stock one especially if you want a pimp IM... do you fill your bath tub with a straw, too?

Minimizing pumping losses (which in a boosted platform are flow restrictions that increase pressure which also increases temps) is the #1 rule of making power.  Minimizing thermal losses (heat) is also the #1 rule of making power.  It's almost like they are inextricably linked, the same thing.

If you have two shiny nickles to rub together, GET ONE OF CHRIS' TBs.  Unlike the Brand Name TBs that cost twice as much they don't stick, break, fail, or suck.  They are one of the best deals in motorsports today.  The problem is, TB and IM must match... just because they come as two pieces and are bolted together doesn't mean they aren't the same from a standpoint of flow through the combined unit.  It's really easy to upgrade one and get NO increase in performance because the other is stock or poorly chosen.

Chris needs to offer a TB/IM/head modification, smoothing, and port fisting service.  It'd be a bit pricey for most HMTers, but there is a serious problem with flow choking off in the stock size IM/head ports, even NA.  My 12.5:1 CR stock camshaft SOHC hit it's port choke point (as well as knock) at 142 whp, it's funny that I could make ~5-8% more off the existing combo with a halfassed port enlargement (and header collector mod) based off of what Belben and others have told me.  That's 150+ off of a stock cam, which sounds pretty ridiculous but makes sense; I've seen stock long block B16 make 158 whp off of the correct TB(chris')/IM(Skank9 Pro)/header(HyTech knock off) without breaking it's normal 109 wtq... the power just didn't fall off up top because the flow didn't choke and fall off up top.  We sidestep a lot of the flow problems NA cars have by increasing air density, but the ceiling on D16 is lower (due to stock IM, ports) and so there's a lot of power to be freed up even on streetcars.

[papercuts]

Rite now all I want is about 225 or so at the wheels. Probably less. Because its a stock bottom end. On my last build with a stock y8 and cing chong turbo and manifold I made 222 hp and 198 tq on a mustang dyno. Rthen I blew a head gasket and swapped bottom end our for a srp and eagle combo that saw 18#s with a turbonetics 48 60 but it had lag real bad for somwe reason. That is the reason I'm trying the smaller pipong this time. Later on I want to build the bottom end for sure and make 300 to 350 for sure. Just gathering all the info rite now and parts.

Sorry for the randomness of thius post I'm on the toilet at work on my blackberry so my mind is here and there. Lol. 

[ApexSilver06MR]

chris, got a webpage or something?  what all do you have in stock?

www.polarbeartuning.com

[patsmx5]

I'm not lookin to run tens or anything.  In runnin 2.25 piping to throttle body. How big of a throttle body should I get. Rite now its a stock bottom end lookin to run low to mid twelves for the time being. I just don't wanna get somthing to big but I know u know ur shit chris so wat should I do.

So are you going to make 200 whp and run mid 12's, or are you going to make 300+ whp and only run mid-12's because you fucking suck at driving and your car isn't aligned, sitting on crap tires?

Sorry to be a mouthy ass, but it needed to be said. 

Get 2.5" charge pipe, minimum, it matches up with a 60mm B-series TB which is the MINIMUM you should be running if if you're reppin' the singlecam shit broke.  You can whine for five minutes and somebody'll give you a stock B-series unit, it's retarded to keep the stock one especially if you want a pimp IM... do you fill your bath tub with a straw, too?

Minimizing pumping losses (which in a boosted platform are flow restrictions that increase pressure which also increases temps) is the #1 rule of making power.  Minimizing thermal losses (heat) is also the #1 rule of making power.  It's almost like they are inextricably linked, the same thing.

If you have two shiny nickles to rub together, GET ONE OF CHRIS' TBs.  Unlike the Brand Name TBs that cost twice as much they don't stick, break, fail, or suck.  They are one of the best deals in motorsports today.  The problem is, TB and IM must match... just because they come as two pieces and are bolted together doesn't mean they aren't the same from a standpoint of flow through the combined unit.  It's really easy to upgrade one and get NO increase in performance because the other is stock or poorly chosen.

Chris needs to offer a TB/IM/head modification, smoothing, and port fisting service.  It'd be a bit pricey for most HMTers, but there is a serious problem with flow choking off in the stock size IM/head ports, even NA.  My 12.5:1 CR stock camshaft SOHC hit it's port choke point (as well as knock) at 142 whp, it's funny that I could make ~5-8% more off the existing combo with a halfassed port enlargement (and header collector mod) based off of what Belben and others have told me.  That's 150+ off of a stock cam, which sounds pretty ridiculous but makes sense; I've seen stock long block B16 make 158 whp off of the correct TB(chris')/IM(Skank9 Pro)/header(HyTech knock off) without breaking it's normal 109 wtq... the power just didn't fall off up top because the flow didn't choke and fall off up top.  We sidestep a lot of the flow problems NA cars have by increasing air density, but the ceiling on D16 is lower (due to stock IM, ports) and so there's a lot of power to be freed up even on streetcars.

You gotta have a good volume plenum for a high RPM intake manifold. Your TB doesn't need to be any bigger than your charge pipes. Turbo increases the density of the air, and you get a lower specific volume. But the volume of the charge that gets pulled in at a given RPM is the same regardless of the density of the charge. So if a certain manifold works well to 6K, then it goes to shit afterward, then it will exhibit the same characteristics on a turbo motor too. Yall are neglecting turbine characteristics too, which directly affects cylinder filling.

[Joseph Davis]

Charge pipe diameter and TB do have an effect, too small hurts efficiency.

On an efficient system, boost will push the engine's VE point upward, and that includes the point at which an IM works well.

[patsmx5]

Charge pipe diameter and TB do have an effect, too small hurts efficiency.

On an efficient system, boost will push the engine's VE point upward, and that includes the point at which an IM works well.

chage pipe diameter has some effect, yeah. But very little. You're talking maybe .1 PSI pressure loss across all the charge pipes, not considering IC efficiency, which therein is much poorer.

That increase in efficiency would be from turbine efficiency going up. Less residual gases to expand and take up space, more room for the charge to fill the cylinder for the next cycle.

[Joseph Davis]

No, there's a difference in power between larger charge pipes.  Hundreds of hours of dyno time on a common platform is your friend when making little observations like these.

[patsmx5]

No, there's a difference in power between larger charge pipes.  Hundreds of hours of dyno time on a common platform is your friend when making little observations like these.

I said there is a difference. But it's not much until you get into the >250 ft/s range. Of course you have to pay for all the pressure drops, so they're important. But having 5 bends instead of 3 isn't why the torque line falls below 80% of peak torque quickly after reaching peak torque. Resistance of a compressible fluid flowing in a pipe is something with V^2 in the numerator and A^4 in the denominator IIRC. So bigger helps cut resistance a lot.

[Joseph Davis]

Pumping losses.

[papercuts]

Rite now I wanna see boost as soon as possible. I figured with 2.25 piping it would get into boost faster per say. On my last set up  just seemed laggey for a .48 hotside. Iknow later on we added some timing and that helped but it also helped burn a hole in a piston.

[Dr. D-Series]

With your goal of 225 whp I feel a ported z6 mani and 65ish TB would do wonders. You cant go wrong with the price and results from Chris' ported setups.

Do it.

[Joseph Davis]

The increase in charge pipe volume is miniscule, has no effect on spool.  The effect on  flow resistance, however is drastic.

[patsmx5]

Pumping losses.

Si. 

[papercuts]

The increase in charge pipe volume is miniscule, has no effect on spool.  The effect on  flow resistance, however is drastic.

so the smaller piping will create more resistance. u think a 1/4 inch will matter much? i figure it would help with spool if anything.

another question. i was running a 3 inch open downpipe that ended rite about where i sat in the car if not a lil before. could that have ben a factor also.

on this set up i will be running exhaust but it will be the 3 inch dp to the shifter or so then go to 2.5 inch th rest of the way. i just need to find a nice 2.5 to 3 inch piece. would really like to have one taht would slip over each end so i dont have to but it to weld it.lol just being picky though

and another question. this time im running wat looks like a csaddict miniram instead of a "rank1"(whomever that is) ramhorn,  from wat i have read the minniram  should spool faster. correct?

[BoostForLife]

Open down-pipe always spools faster because of almost not having back pressure.