Topic: Track Racing, Cooling Issues for Turbo Civic (Read 9663 times)

imburne · « **on:** October 19, 2011, 01:56:49 PM »

I can see and have been told that I will be running into issues running on a track while boosting. I have a few ideas for keeping the car cool and want to see if you guys have others.
Let me know about what I have listed as well if you wish.

1. Carbon fiber hood that I can cut and bend to vent (they are cheap if you look for ones with clearcoat damage or cosmetic damage)
2. Large Intercooler
3. Possibly a Oil Cooler
4. Turbo exhaust Jacket/Cover
5. Not boosting as much psi as I can?
6. DIY Front Splitter?

B18C1 with HX35, Neptune, on a 99 civic hatchback, Drag racing will be full boost, and track will be anything that's fun and allows the car to give me a 30 minute run at top speed.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #1 on:** October 19, 2011, 02:29:37 PM »

Keep the timing down, run a little extra fuel, wrap all exhaust, biggest radiator you can fit.

I would monitor oil temps an make a desicion. Sure you could use cold oil to keep engine temps down, but oil needs to be 180Â°f.

An air/air intercooler on a road course, doesn't seem like it will matter too much how big it is. They suck the heat out while doing a pull, then you drive in vac so they will cool back down to be ready to go again. Constant boost will just heat soak it and it won't cool anymore.

I'm sure somebody that knows more than me will chime in, but those are my thoughts.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #2 on:** October 19, 2011, 02:30:55 PM »

Oil cooler is a must! And I would put it in front of my intercooler off to one side, or up behind the upper grill on your civic. And then I would build ducting around it so it got plenty of air movement across it. If you can keep the oil temps down it will greatly help the car from overheating. Then I would address proper airflow across your radiator to keep the coolent temps down. If you can keep those bot within proper operating range, Then I would work on keeping the underhood temps down like you said exhausting hot air out and heat wrapping. Talk to Random Hero about keeping oil temps down and the affect they have on extended pulls/hotlapping

chris · « **Reply #3 on:** October 19, 2011, 03:13:47 PM »

Sadly the overheating issue will not be an easy fix I have yet to see a turbo honda be successful road racing in the California 110+ degree tracks. Now calm fall weather you should be alright but come summer time I would be shocked if the car doesnt drive you crazy.

Also any dream of keeping a half radiator needs to be thrown out the window. This is the biggest investment that needs to be made as stock b series motors struggle in that heat with a full size integra raditor in a civic chassis. Halfie is not going to cut it.

The sad fact here is the track temps out there are purely insane so the guys up in washington may be fine with certain things but you live in the hottest part of the country.

92CXyD · « **Reply #4 on:** October 19, 2011, 03:21:54 PM »

Wonder if you experiment with a second radiator in the back w/ fans underneath the bumper.

Where holes are usually cut better drag reduction.

And with a belly pan to help smooth the airflow towards the back.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #5 on:** October 19, 2011, 03:24:30 PM »

Quote from: chris M on October 19, 2011, 03:13:47 PM

The sad fact here is the track temps out there are purely insane so the guys up in washington may be fine with certain things but you live in the hottest part of the country.

Never see a car running in anything over lower 90s up here. I guess I didnt take into consideration where you were. Now if it was in phoenix or 115* Your gona have your work cut out for you. But Im sure it can be done. What about a air-water intercooler? That way you can have full air for your condenser, radiator and oil cooler

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #6 on:** October 19, 2011, 03:41:32 PM »

I would monitor oil temps before sticking a cooler in it. I have never tried road racing a Honda, but if only the coolant is getting hot then you are doing more damage than good by cooling it.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #7 on:** October 19, 2011, 04:13:29 PM »

I agree 100% with monitoring your oil temps, but I can almost bet that your o will get hotter than u would like.

chris · « **Reply #8 on:** October 19, 2011, 04:47:48 PM »

Quote from: ratcityrex on October 19, 2011, 03:24:30 PM

Quote from: chris M on October 19, 2011, 03:13:47 PM
The sad fact here is the track temps out there are purely insane so the guys up in washington may be fine with certain things but you live in the hottest part of the country.

Never see a car running in anything over lower 90s up here. I guess I didnt take into consideration where you were. Now if it was in phoenix or 115* Your gona have your work cut out for you. But Im sure it can be done. What about a air-water intercooler? That way you can have full air for your condenser, radiator and oil cooler

He is in lancaster/plamdale the high desert of los anageles. Willow springs the local track reaches 120+ in the sun throughout summer/early fall. The bonus here is it never rains so the track is open year round so winter/spring he may get away with some cutouts on the bumper and baller full size radiator.

I use to road race out there back in the day and had issues with a stock zc/full integra radiator in the summer in my civic so summer events are imo not an option but anything is possible.

stealthiskey · « **Reply #9 on:** October 19, 2011, 08:17:59 PM »

i love titties

HiProfile · « **Reply #10 on:** October 19, 2011, 10:26:17 PM »

Coolant will be the first problem. Once solved, the normally hot honda oil will want to start boiling. The people I've talked to say 220-240F is ideal for a Honda, above that is too hot.

One way you can combat heatsoak is by raising the mass of that being heated. A larger reservoir for both oil and coolant will help. For the radiator elements you'll want direct airflow, and you'll want to seal the ducts. Zero air should be allowed to flow around them.

speedjunky01 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 20, 2011, 10:25:11 AM »

I have a 99 vented CF Hood you can have for cheap shipping would be a bitch maybe greyhound?

Run the OEM oil cooler that goes below the oil filter, if you go with an aftermarket oil cooler use a thermostat

I'm in ne so the OEM oil cooler worked well enough by it's self for me and keeps oil around 200-210

HiProfile · « **Reply #12 on:** October 20, 2011, 01:46:23 PM »

One thing I was thinking about the oem cooler was giving it it's own small cooling system. Rather than 195F water, use a small 12v pump, trans cooler, and a temp switch so the oil never gets too cool. Other coolers cool the oil directly, but you can loose pressure and reliability in the process.

speedjunky01 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 20, 2011, 09:33:26 PM »

thats actually a great freaking idea!

having a dedicated cooling system would cool better and you could put the oil temp into ectune or neptune since temp sensors use 0-5v then at a set temp just have a general purpose output switch the pump on

it would allow the oil to warm up like normal and stay cool shouldn't be to hard to pull off at all.

HiProfile · « **Reply #14 on:** October 21, 2011, 12:05:14 AM »

Actually temp sensors are mostly non-linear thermistors (variable resistors). They do make solid-state temp sensors, but the types we have access to are only in a small transistor package/shape. Just find a fan thermoswitch that kicks on at a really high temps (>210F)and you're fine.

I was also thinking about cooling the oil by pulling it right out the oil pan. Get a gear pump, suck from one side of the oil pan down low, pass through filter, pump, and air cooler, then dump it into the other side of the pan.

92CXyD · « **Reply #15 on:** October 21, 2011, 09:34:53 AM »

Quote from: HiProfile on October 21, 2011, 12:05:14 AM

Actually temp sensors are mostly non-linear thermistors (variable resistors). They do make solid-state temp sensors, but the types we have access to are only in a small transistor package/shape. Just find a fan thermoswitch that kicks on at a really high temps (>210F)and you're fine.

I was also thinking about cooling the oil by pulling it right out the oil pan. Get a gear pump, suck from one side of the oil pan down low, pass through filter, pump, and air cooler, then dump it into the other side of the pan.

You may have to watch oil sloshing away from the pump in the turns and under acceleration and deceleration.

speedjunky01 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 21, 2011, 12:22:11 PM »

Quote from: HiProfile on October 21, 2011, 12:05:14 AM

I was also thinking about cooling the oil by pulling it right out the oil pan. Get a gear pump, suck from one side of the oil pan down low, pass through filter, pump, and air cooler, then dump it into the other side of the pan.

two drain bolts

turbob16hatch · « **Reply #17 on:** October 26, 2011, 11:25:56 PM »

Quote from: chris M on October 19, 2011, 03:13:47 PM

Sadly the overheating issue will not be an easy fix I have yet to see a turbo honda be successful road racing in the California 110+ degree tracks. Now calm fall weather you should be alright but come summer time I would be shocked if the car doesnt drive you crazy.

Also any dream of keeping a half radiator needs to be thrown out the window. This is the biggest investment that needs to be made as stock b series motors struggle in that heat with a full size integra raditor in a civic chassis. Halfie is not going to cut it.

The sad fact here is the track temps out there are purely insane so the guys up in washington may be fine with certain things but you live in the hottest part of the country.

This is just proof that absolutely ZERO honda ricers know a thing about how cooling systems work and thats it. If they concentrated less on system volume and more on air flow this wouldn't be an issue. Word to the wise slapping a huge old radiator on doesn't do shit when you put a 3 times to big intercooler in front of it.

The best advice i can give for keeping a car cool is controlling air flow into/over the coolers. Understanding the required fluid volumes needed for your use and the use of the correct fluid.

Also as mentioned an oil cooler is a MUST in a turbo road race car. There are some old hater-tech threads talking about extremly high oil temps in a mild hp turbo b18c car.

92CXyD · « **Reply #18 on:** October 27, 2011, 08:13:27 AM »

Also look in using a low temp thermostat.

Better yet use a thermostat with the guts taken out or hole drilled in the thermostat to allow flow all the time.

imburne · « **Reply #19 on:** October 28, 2011, 12:03:58 AM »

Everyone's opinion is greatly appreciated, thank you.

Thoughts on Methanol Injection coupled with some of these ideas?

theidealone · « **Reply #20 on:** October 28, 2011, 01:04:14 AM »

And wire your fan to a toggle switch. Dont use the stock temp switch to control it. I believe they shut off over 30mph or something, but the intercooler heats and blocks the air flow. So youll want the fans on even at 70mph.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #21 on:** October 28, 2011, 07:01:29 AM »

You can just run it with the ecu. I hate fan switches

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #22 on:** October 28, 2011, 01:36:22 PM »

Larger IC = causes overheating. I know of several successful roadrace and hillclimb turbo Hondas, they all run half radiators and offset the IC to the other side of the car. The amount of time you are in boost is really minimal so the IC never heatsoaks at speed. Past 350 on a road course, less if the car doesn't way much, the tires just turn to goop and you slide everywhere.

DO NOT WIRE YOUR COOLING FANS TO A SWITCH. If you want to run an extra switched ground to the factory fan relay (already used by thermoswitch and ECU) and turn them on as you see fit, awesome, but when you get in and screw up the thermoswitch and the ECU's ability to control the fans you WILL end up overheating the car because you forgot to turn them on. My way is actually easier than gutting the factory wiring.

Figure out best timing on a dyno where the car is going to struggle more, and temps are going to be higher. Target 11.5:1 AFR as this is max cooling you can get on most water jacketed cars without inducing misfires.

theidealone · « **Reply #23 on:** October 28, 2011, 10:24:50 PM »

Yea. I have mine adjusted through the ECU. But I didnt know what software he was going to use, and if it had an adjustment/parameter for that. I just used a switch with a fuse inline in my hatch. Never had an issue, but it was a drag car.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2011, 08:32:13 AM »

I think he is using Neptune. Either that or ectune, but I know he is using decent stuff so can control is there

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Author Topic: Track Racing, Cooling Issues for Turbo Civic (Read 9663 times)

chris

chris