Topic: Igntion cutting out under load, HELP!, 1 engine down (Read 10524 times)

SiFlyBy · « **on:** June 20, 2012, 03:52:18 PM »

I'm going to give as many details as I can think of.

99 GSR
sleeved b20, wiseco/eagle, 9.5:1
b16 head
ITR intake
topmount, hx40 with BEP .70 a/r hotside
chipped p72 running neptune with a Moates Demon
2150cc FIC injectors, E85

The problem is this: the engine is cutting out under a moderate load. Initially after I got the engine put together, I began tuning on our dyno and made 323whp at 5800rpms under about 22psi when it sarted cutting out. I tried and tried and tried to tune it out. Got rid of the MSD crap that was on the car. After that a rod bearing ate itself. I rebuilt the engine complete with a new crank because mine was bent .030". All back together with a new distributor and nothing has changed. Before today I could hold 8ish psi to redline and it was fine. More than that and it spits and sputters. I have checked ECU power and grounds. The engine and body are grounded correctly. Switching between an emulator and a burned chip makes no difference. I am leaning towards ECU at his time but figured I'd ask around a little.

Thanks in advance for any insight. I am at my wits end.
Chris

92CXyD · « **Reply #1 on:** June 20, 2012, 04:53:14 PM »

What sparkplug and gap?

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #2 on:** June 20, 2012, 05:25:44 PM »

99% sure its NGK r5671a-9 and gapped at about .030". im not around the car right now to confirm. will do as soon as i can

skaterdudz02 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 20, 2012, 06:53:29 PM »

Friend of mine had the SAME problem.

I advised him to run a standard copper plug 1 step colder and problem vanished. Gapped at .028 too.

92CXyD · « **Reply #4 on:** June 20, 2012, 08:02:38 PM »

Quote from: SiFlyBy on June 20, 2012, 05:25:44 PM

99% sure its NGK r5671a-9 and gapped at about .030". im not around the car right now to confirm. will do as soon as i can

Clean and gap at 0.020" see if that cleans your issues.

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #5 on:** June 20, 2012, 10:35:13 PM »

So, I'm not really experienced with hondas. Is the plug that I (think) have 2 steps colder than stock? Also, running E85, would it be plausible to run a stock heat range plug. I'm shooting for 500whp.

jdmhatchracer94 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 20, 2012, 11:20:54 PM »

Same prob with the ls gaped down to .022 no problems

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #7 on:** June 21, 2012, 08:22:43 AM »

R5671A-9 are the spark plugs I have. Were at .030", now at .020" and no change.

A few things I forgot to mention before:

When attempting to tune on the dyno, whenever this sputtering/missing happens, Neptune locks up until I disconnect/reconnect its USB cable. That is what made me think either ECU or power/ground issues.

Also, the CEL comes on about 5 minutes after startup. EVERY TIME. I am unable to pull a code, however. OB2 port does not communicate(didn't expect it to) and I can't pull the code in Neptune with the Demon hooked up. I know the function in Neptune works because I had a couple sensors hooked up wrong the last time I got it back together and was able to pull the codes then.

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #8 on:** June 25, 2012, 05:29:01 PM »

Anybody? Please...Help...

92CXyD · « **Reply #9 on:** June 25, 2012, 05:39:23 PM »

Power/ground wiring, maybe

I have similar issues when I turn on the headlights and the datalogger stops working until unplug and then replug to computer.

patsmx5 · « **Reply #10 on:** June 25, 2012, 10:31:57 PM »

My guess is bad grounding. Can you datalog anything? If so, datalog your voltage for the ECU, and datalog sensors. When I had bad grounds, The ECU would report "spikes" of over 20V when it went ape shit. Sensors were really noisy too. Like CLT might be 190, but it bounced from 185 to 194, and got worse with load/power. How are your grounds hooked up? Are they ALL clean? Tight? You checked them? Battery cables also?

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2012, 06:28:35 AM »

I checked the grounds over well. About .8 ohms to ground from the ecu connector. I guess the real check would be a voltage drop test during the problem. They are bolted to the Tstat housing. I have a ground cable from the battery to the body and one straight to the bell housing. There is also the VC to body ground and a trans to body ground..all clean. I'll have to double check the wires again and the power to the ecu and all sensors.

This car ran perfect before it was taken apart 4 years ago. It has been sitting since and I got it for free with a LS trans, good clutch and a sleeved b20 block/b16 head.

I was hoping that some one would give me a "oh yeah, that happened to me exactly. Its this." Not so. I'll have to keep digging. I'll let you guys know what/if I find. If you never hear from me, my brains are splattered all over the inside of this car.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2012, 04:20:08 PM »

Quote from: SiFlyBy on June 26, 2012, 06:28:35 AM

If you never hear from me, my brains are splattered all over the inside of this car.

leave me the car in your will so I can spend 5 min fucking around with it to make it work and then go do burnouts in it.

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #13 on:** June 27, 2012, 08:26:00 AM »

Quote from: ratcityrex on June 26, 2012, 04:20:08 PM

Quote from: SiFlyBy on June 26, 2012, 06:28:35 AM
If you never hear from me, my brains are splattered all over the inside of this car.

leave me the car in your will so I can spend 5 min fucking around with it to make it work and then go do burnouts in it.

According to this thread, I have shit for brains. That means you will have 10lbs of shit to clean up on the inside of the car. Unfortunately, the car is already spoken for when I decide to get rid of it. The buddy who gave it to me wants it back.

Anyway, I got the CEL issue resolved and really thought that it was going to cure everything. I jumped the diag connector(F-ing DUH!) and got a code 23(knock sensor). Went into Neptune and disabled that. No more CEL but everything else is still the same. I would say I am one step further from hanging myself to death with the engine harness.

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2012, 09:32:52 AM »

Quote from: carkrazed on June 27, 2012, 08:10:37 PM

Plug wires?

I know that sounds stupid, but I chased the same kind of misfire for almost two months until I threw some magnecors on it and all was good.

It had some MSD wires on it from the previous owner. I swapped them for some new stock wires acouple days ago. no change.

HiProfile · « **Reply #15 on:** July 02, 2012, 01:02:07 PM »

With such large injectors and fuel flow, I'd take a look at the pulse damper. My stock LS was having weird issues and it turned out to be the screw in the damper under the plastic cover. I could have sworn it was an ignition issue, and I went as far as trying ectune on it with a wideband to confirm AFR's read fine. I've seen a few other people with issues like this.

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #16 on:** July 05, 2012, 08:11:46 AM »

Quote from: HiProfile on July 02, 2012, 01:02:07 PM

With such large injectors and fuel flow, I'd take a look at the pulse damper. My stock LS was having weird issues and it turned out to be the screw in the damper under the plastic cover. I could have sworn it was an ignition issue, and I went as far as trying ectune on it with a wideband to confirm AFR's read fine. I've seen a few other people with issues like this.

I'm not 100% sure what you are referring to here. I am guessing it is the stock FPR? If so, I have an Aeromotive FPR.

It just occured to me that I don't have a single pic of the engine finished. I will work on that.

HiProfile · « **Reply #17 on:** July 12, 2012, 09:39:37 AM »

On the inlet of the stock rail there is a pulse damper, looks like a tiny oem wastegate actuator w/o the rod. That thing can get fucked up, and affect shit even with an aftermarket FPR.

THe other thing I just remembered is people will use the wrong crush washer on that spot. You need the one from Honda that has 4 teeth on the inner circle to let fuel around the banjo stud, or cross drill a larger hole through that section of the inlet banjo stud.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #18 on:** July 16, 2012, 09:29:59 PM »

Ignitor

/thread

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2012, 08:00:39 AM »

Quote from: HiProfile on July 12, 2012, 09:39:37 AM

On the inlet of the stock rail there is a pulse damper, looks like a tiny oem wastegate actuator w/o the rod. That thing can get fucked up, and affect shit even with an aftermarket FPR.

THe other thing I just remembered is people will use the wrong crush washer on that spot. You need the one from Honda that has 4 teeth on the inner circle to let fuel around the banjo stud, or cross drill a larger hole through that section of the inlet banjo stud.

Sorry, afermatket fuel rail too.

Quote from: PhilStubbs on July 16, 2012, 09:29:59 PM

Ignitor

/thread

I did just put a brand new distributor on as well. Not to say that its good, but the problem is exactly the same as before.

I also swapped in a new p28 and no change there either.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2012, 08:30:31 AM »

Where did you get it? Cheap parts store distributors are just that. Cheap

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2012, 01:19:48 PM »

Quote from: PhilStubbs on July 26, 2012, 08:30:31 AM

Where did you get it? Cheap parts store distributors are just that. Cheap

I think it was a Cardone and about $200. I have heard that OEM honda stuff is the best, but our local honda dealer has jack in stock. Also the problem is exactly the same between old distributor/MSD coil and 6AL box/new distributor. I just haven't had the time to really dive into the problem for some amount time. work/wife/children=no free time

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2012, 02:45:29 PM »

My dealings with cardone stuff has always been good. Should be fine then.

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #23 on:** October 08, 2012, 08:10:19 AM »

Quote from: carkrazed on September 04, 2012, 10:51:20 PM

You ever figure this out?

No.

I spent about 8 hours on the dyno on Friday and got basically nowhere. I pulled a spring out of the WG and was running about 11 psi. With vtec turned off, I could make a clean pull up to 7k with no issues. Keeping it turned off in the ECU, we powerd the solenoid with battery voltage and it cut out. So, I fugured I would put more boost to it and tune it without vtec. More boost and no vtec and it cuts out. Over the weekend I was thinking I should check into colder plugs. I couldnt remember what heat range they were. Reading through this again, I now doubt that.

...

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #24 on:** October 08, 2012, 09:42:25 AM »

Put some NGK bkr7e p/n 4644 plugs gapped to .022" in it and see what happens. 9's are way too cold for 500hp. I skimmed over that part before and didn't realize what you had in there.

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #25 on:** October 25, 2012, 07:41:57 AM »

Quote from: PhilStubbs on October 08, 2012, 09:42:25 AM

Put some NGK bkr7e p/n 4644 plugs gapped to .022" in it and see what happens. 9's are way too cold for 500hp. I skimmed over that part before and didn't realize what you had in there.

Tried. No luck.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #26 on:** October 25, 2012, 09:55:31 AM »

Burn to the ground?

HiProfile · « **Reply #27 on:** October 26, 2012, 01:16:33 AM »

Quote from: SiFlyBy on July 26, 2012, 01:19:48 PM

Quote from: PhilStubbs on July 26, 2012, 08:30:31 AM
Where did you get it? Cheap parts store distributors are just that. Cheap
I think it was a Cardone and about $200. I have heard that OEM honda stuff is the best, but our local honda dealer has jack in stock. Also the problem is exactly the same between old distributor/MSD coil and 6AL box/new distributor. I just haven't had the time to really dive into the problem for some amount time. work/wife/children=no free time

Try calling some of the JDM importers for a low-milage OEM piece. Obvioiusly it's having problems firing the spark through such dense a charge. I wouldn't trust the MSD stuff anyways.

stealthiskey · « **Reply #28 on:** October 26, 2012, 09:21:32 AM »

Describe what you mean cutting out. Is it making terrible noises and no power, or just won't accelerate and no power? Does it act like a rev-limiter does?

Do you have a boost-cut set in neptune, and what is it set at? I imagine at 5800 rpm and 22 psi, boost is still rising, maybe your gauge/map sensor read a few psi off from one another?

SiFlyBy · « **Reply #29 on:** October 29, 2012, 11:23:20 PM »

Quote from: stealthiskey on October 26, 2012, 09:21:32 AM

Describe what you mean cutting out. Is it making terrible noises and no power, or just won't accelerate and no power? Does it act like a rev-limiter does?

Do you have a boost-cut set in neptune, and what is it set at? I imagine at 5800 rpm and 22 psi, boost is still rising, maybe your gauge/map sensor read a few psi off from one another?

Under any load(into boost) it will not rev past 5k or so. I have checked settings. At one point a few weeks ago, I had it on the dyno and it was making full pulls at 10ish psi with no vtec. So I figured it just turn it up and keep vtec disabled and drive it like that for awhile. Turned up the boost and it cuts out at 5 k. When the engine is cold I can make a couple pulls all the way to 6 or 7 k, but even then it gets to be sputtering in the upper revs. It's getting old and I may just sell the car the way it is. I don't have time for the headache. More importantly though, I no longer care.

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Author Topic: Igntion cutting out under load, HELP!, 1 engine down (Read 10524 times)