Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jorsher]

Mechanical timing is perfect, I checked it while the engine was out the car.

Vacuum lines are all where they were the first time I drove it and the timing was fine.

It idles around 500rpm and should be at about 750-1000rpm.

If I give it gas and let off, it doesn't always catch itself and usually dies.

Distributor is turned all the way towards the front of the car (advanced?) and still isn't enough.

Yes I'm trying to set it with the service connector jumped.

WHAT WAS WRONG: http://www.realhomemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?topic=13756.msg154011#msg154011

[jagojon3]

Distributor all the way forward is retarding the ignition.

Are you absolutely sure the mechanical timing is still fine? It's possible that it jumped a tooth, check it out quick.

[Jorsher]

Mechanical timing perfect, just double checked it.

[DmC]

Mechanical timing perfect, just double checked it.

That makes me 100% sure it's wrong.

[Jorsher]

Mechanical timing perfect, just double checked it.

That makes me 100% sure it's wrong.

Why?  Because the notch should be slightly ahead of the notch due to the slack?  If that's the case, yes it's right.

[DmC]

Mechanical timing perfect, just double checked it.

That makes me 100% sure it's wrong.

Why?  Because the notch should be slightly ahead of the notch due to the slack?  If that's the case, yes it's right.

Fantastic

[Minor Threat]

If your mech timing is 100% correct then you should be pretty damn close to stock distributor position. Which means either two things:

1) Your mech timing is wrong. Are you sure you're setting it with the right marks?
2) You've got the wrong distributor.

[Jorsher]

Here's the puzzling thing...

The first time I started engine #1, I was able to set the ignition timing but had to retard the distributor fully.

After I realized the coolant/oil were mixing, took off the head, re-plugged the oil passage for vtec, and put it back together, I was unable to set the ignition timing.

Now on engine #2, don't have any of the problems as engine #1 except the ignition timing is still just as far off.

What could cause the ignition timing to advance?  Any sensors?  IACV/FITV?

I thought maybe the distributor went to shit so tried a known-good ignition coil and control module from Doug's GSR.  Ran exactly the same.

Mechanical timing is 100% sure definitely positively without-a-doubt correct.

The distributor is a TD68U, which I think is the same as the 95 GSR distributor.  The cams are from a GSR.  The head is a B18C5 head.

ANY other ideas?  I'm willing to try just about anything.

[Minor Threat]

Do you have the service connector jumped?

[Jorsher]

Do you have the service connector jumped?

Are you fucking with me?  Yes, I said I did in the original post

I'm trying to find someone with an OBD1 distributor I can "borrow" to make sure it isn't the problem.

[Minor Threat]

I'm still betting 100% that your mech timing is off.

Triple check it and try retarding the mech timing by a tooth, should bring you back into the right range if you're all the way advanced now.

[Jorsher]

I'm still betting 100% that your mech timing is off.

Triple check it and try retarding the mech timing by a tooth, should bring you back into the right range if you're all the way advanced now.

I tried this on the previous engine when the ignition timing still could not be set.  The car ran worse.

The mechanical timing is where it should be.  Like I stated above, when I double, triple, quadruple checked it, when I turn the crank so the cams line up, the TDC mark on the pulley is maybe half a centimeter past the notch on the timing belt cover...but I can turn the crank back enough to line it up without moving the cams.  If I set it a tooth off either way, the TDC mark is way off the notch.

Mostly I'm looking for other suggestions.  Mech timing 100% sure correct.

What, other than mech timing, can cause ignition timing to be off?

The ignition timing also fluctuates with the RPM while it's running, it's idling 100-500rpm.

[ratcityrex]

Have you checked it with a timing light? You need to get your idle set, then start fucking with the timing.

[Jorsher]

Yes, I've been using a timing light that's how I know it's off

I think it would idle a lot better if it was firing where it should.

I'll paypal $10 Friday to whoever can help me figure this out.  Pissing me off.

[Jorsher]

Does anyone know if all B-series cam gears are the same?

I have cam gears from a JDM B16A and some from an LS.  I compared them before and thought they were the same however someone told me the B16A ones are slightly "off."

[Doug]

maybe need adjustable came gear?

-Adjustable cam gears (even for stock cams, because lsvtec timing will ALWAYS be slightly off)

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1676914

[crttaz]

You mean the slight difference in deck height could effect cam timing???

B16 is 9mm shorter than B18C, but teeth on the timing belt are spaced 10mm apart.

1 mm.

B18A is .55mm shorter than B18C.

So where is your cam timing and why haven't you looked up the part numbers on the cam gears??

This ASS-U-ME's you have it in correct mechanical timing.

But you've already stated you are 5mm off at the crank pulley when cams are at TDC.

All in theory of course as you couldn't give me a B series motor to run.

[snm95ls]

You mean the slight difference in deck height could effect cam timing???

B16 is 9mm shorter than B18C, but teeth on the timing belt are spaced 10mm apart.

1 mm.

B18A is .55mm shorter than B18C.

So where is your cam timing and why haven't you looked up the part numbers on the cam gears??

This ASS-U-ME's you have it in correct mechanical timing.

But you've already stated you are 5mm off at the crank pulley when cams are at TDC.

All in theory of course as you couldn't give me a B series motor to run.

Every single set of OEM cam gears I have seem for  B series have been stamper PR3.  Just sayin...

The crank gears all index the same way AFAIK as well.


Either you have some odd electrical gremlin that is fucking with your ignition timing, or your mechanical timing is not 100% perfect.

Y49

[Jorsher]

You mean the slight difference in deck height could effect cam timing???

B16 is 9mm shorter than B18C, but teeth on the timing belt are spaced 10mm apart.

1 mm.

B18A is .55mm shorter than B18C.

So where is your cam timing and why haven't you looked up the part numbers on the cam gears??

This ASS-U-ME's you have it in correct mechanical timing.

But you've already stated you are 5mm off at the crank pulley when cams are at TDC.

All in theory of course as you couldn't give me a B series motor to run.

Every single set of OEM cam gears I have seem for  B series have been stamper PR3.  Just sayin...

The crank gears all index the same way AFAIK as well.


Either you have some odd electrical gremlin that is fucking with your ignition timing, or your mechanical timing is not 100% perfect.

Y49

I think Y49 is the problem

Mechanical timing when turning by the crank and lining up the cams, is a few degrees off, not much by any means, and can be attributed to the "stretch" of the timing belt because I can turn the crank back to make it line up without moving the cams at all.

I'm interested in the "odd electrical gremlins" you mentioned.  It worked before without issue so I don't think it's a mechanical problem.  What are good places to check?

Right now I have the map wire connected to the firewall mounted sensor, is it worth trying on the throttlebody mounted map?

[Minor Threat]

You fix it yet? curious to know what the prob/solution was.

[Jorsher]

You fix it yet? curious to know what the prob/solution was.

The problem was as stupid as I thought it'd be.  I used the map sensor on the firewall because the wire wouldn't reach to the throttle body.  Well, looking at it today, I noticed none of the vacuum lines coming from the map sensor were going to anything.  I *assume* one should have went to the front/top of the throttle body, however there is no bung there for me to use it.

Anyway, extended the wires, ran it to throttle body map, and bam started/idled just fine.

Now the HUGE question I have was how in the FUCK was I able to drive it without issue before when I had it hooked up to the firewall map?  Makes no fucking sense at all.

[Minor Threat]

Maybe you had vac line running to it?

Glad it was an easy fix.

[snm95ls]

Jorsher...

lol.

At least you found the issue.

[chris]

Without the vacuum line for the map hooked up it would ran horrible. Im assuming you most likely just tapped into another vacuum line etc which will make the car run rich teeing off the map sensor but will drive around. You also would of been throwing a map sensor code.



Never ever ever tee off the map sensor vacuum line.



Are you now using a map sensor on the throttle body? Or just using a fitting tapped into the map sensor hole and running the vacuum line to that?

[Jorsher]

Just extended the wires and using the throttle body map.

[chris]

thats the way to do it

[Jorsher]

Seems kinda boggy although it picks up at WOT.  What am I supposed to do with the hole on the top of the throttle body near the idle air adjustment screw?  Plug? Leave alone?

[Doug]

Seems kinda boggy although it picks up at WOT.  What am I supposed to do with the hole on the top of the throttle body near the idle air adjustment screw?  Plug? Leave alone?

Probably because it's running rich as hell with no O2 sensor and a GSR base map on that low compression. Bastard we could have been doing open header rippers yesterday. I remember asking you about that sensor/vac lines a few times. Next time you'll listen 

[Jorsher]

Yeah yeah.

It worked last time, still don't understand how.

[crttaz]

Why did you extend the wires???

Unbolt fuel filter, remove wiring, put fuel filter back in place, plug now reaches the TB.

92-93 DX/LX thang.