Topic: When you talk about ARP fastener stretch vs torque... (Read 8051 times)

jabberwock · « **on:** June 27, 2010, 12:29:30 PM »

... you aren't talking about this.

Yes, headstud stretched at approx 50 ft-lbs with wrench set to 60. What. The. Fuck.

So it wasn't the threads stripping out... it was this stud getting ready to let loose. If I turned it any more it would have broken off.

darkelvis · « **Reply #1 on:** June 27, 2010, 12:39:28 PM »

good story, glad I can now be a part of it

Jorsher · « **Reply #2 on:** June 27, 2010, 01:28:54 PM »

Maybe your torque wrench is way off calibration?

Mine were torqued to 80lbs as quoted by ARP, on four occasions.

jabberwock · « **Reply #3 on:** June 27, 2010, 01:33:59 PM »

I doubt it, the other 9 didn't do shit and came out of the block with an allen wrench and not nearly as much force. The torque wrench is brand new never used.

Jorsher · « **Reply #4 on:** June 27, 2010, 01:53:03 PM »

Ah damn. Well I guess all of them can't be perfect.

jabberwock · « **Reply #5 on:** June 27, 2010, 01:58:00 PM »

I have a new set on the way from Slummit and sent a "wtf?" email to ARP. Meanwhile JD makes fun of me for torquing to 150ft lbs... I ;D

I guess I'll also pick up a beam style torque wrench somewhere

crttaz · « **Reply #6 on:** June 27, 2010, 03:08:28 PM »

You are not the first to have this issue with ARP bolts/studs.

jabberwock · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2010, 08:38:24 PM »

Gay... I hope they do something about it. I really don't know what I could have done wrong, considering they were previously torqued to spec and worked fine. The stud in question was in just as far as all the others so $:-\$

crttaz · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2010, 09:18:20 PM »

be glad it wasn't a rod bolt and the damage totaled over $10k.

jabberwock · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2010, 09:20:35 PM »

What is the option besides ARP?

Can ARP rod bolts be reused once if they take torque properly?

Fastener failure from a fastener company is really unfortunate.

Hotrodlincoln · « **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2010, 09:44:18 PM »

Was the threads lubed or did you shove it in the hole dry?

jabberwock · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2010, 09:51:10 PM »

Lubed with the supplied moly lube 3 or 4 years ago when I initially put the motor together.

jabberwock · « **Reply #12 on:** June 28, 2010, 05:48:56 AM »

Quote from: crttaz on June 27, 2010, 09:18:20 PM

be glad it wasn't a rod bolt and the damage totaled over $10k.

Speaking of...

dvst8r · « **Reply #13 on:** June 28, 2010, 10:46:19 AM »

It happens, contact ARP, I am sure they will send you out a new stud.

HiProfile · « **Reply #14 on:** June 28, 2010, 10:58:18 AM »

Quote from: jabberwock on June 27, 2010, 08:38:24 PM

Gay... I hope they do something about it. I really don't know what I could have done wrong, considering they were previously torqued to spec and worked fine. The stud in question was in just as far as all the others so $:-\$

We're talking about steel, not some exotic alloy. Pull it past it's yeild strength, and it's junk. It's specifically the point where it changes from elastic deformation (rebounds) to plastic deformation (permanent stretch). That's the reason you can't reuse stock head bolts on Hondas. Crank it a tad further (past ultimate strength), and it changes from loading the material around it to "necking" like shown. I'm not a metalurgist, but I would take a guess that the process that makes ARP's strong also raises the yeild strength much closer to the ultimate & breaking strength. Good if you don't overtorque them...

As for as other HS's, I want to say GE or AEBS had them. Maybe another, but it probably depends on the motor. Whatever they were, I think they were also had ball-ends for Hondas so they'd touch the bottom of the hole. Some people put a ball bearing below ARP's when they worry they'll walk out of the hole (finger-tight in hole).

BTW disregard my speculation above, I know what the problem is. Peniswhistles who can't use a camera's MACRO MODE to save their lives tend to over-torque headstuds.

jabberwock · « **Reply #15 on:** June 28, 2010, 11:03:28 AM »

60 plus or minus however off my tq wrench is... Whatever i got a new set of studs coming

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #16 on:** June 28, 2010, 11:10:27 AM »

HiProfile · « **Reply #17 on:** June 28, 2010, 11:19:53 AM »

With a tongue like this...I need my raincoat!

jabberwock · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2010, 02:37:12 PM »

Quote from: dvst8r on June 28, 2010, 10:46:19 AM

It happens, contact ARP, I am sure they will send you out a new stud.

Yup, they did.

jabberwock · « **Reply #19 on:** May 13, 2013, 03:29:49 PM »

Bump for relevance. Taking "new" motor apart to figure put why my engine bay was getting sprayed with oil.

I didnt know iphones had macro mode.

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #20 on:** May 13, 2013, 04:09:43 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on June 28, 2010, 11:10:27 AM

jabberwock · « **Reply #21 on:** May 13, 2013, 04:37:59 PM »

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 13, 2013, 04:09:43 PM

Quote from: Joseph Davis on June 28, 2010, 11:10:27 AM

Tim · « **Reply #22 on:** May 13, 2013, 05:35:14 PM »

I just torqued my ARP rod bolts down with a stretch gauge. I'm taking bets on how long this engine lasts, my money is on <1000 miles for some reason. I just don't have a good vibe and its all used stock parts.

rawr · « **Reply #23 on:** May 13, 2013, 06:42:35 PM »

Quote from: jabberwock on June 28, 2010, 11:03:28 AM

60 plus or minus however off my tq wrench is... Whatever i got a new set of studs coming

Should be +/-6% if its breaking. You can easily feel the difference between 50/80 lbf-ft. Its probably not your wrench. Exersize that bitch 5-8 times at set torque in the direction youre goi.g to use it in before you tighten nuts and you shouldnt have a problem unless your wrench is obviously fucked.

Beam style/ dial is best besides the digital cdi/snap on.

Also apply torque on the line in the handle or the center of the handle. Makes a bit of a difference if youre being anal about torque specs.

jabberwock · « **Reply #24 on:** May 14, 2013, 12:07:40 AM »

Yeah it had popped on my 60 setting on some of the studs.. that one just kept turning and turning. I probably got a quarter turn before I thought I was pulling threads out. nope.avi

I wonder if it's still usable without a timesert. I had to really turn the allen key hard to get the stud out but still the lever arm is so short, it may have only been 20ftlbs to fuck the top couple threads up. The bottom threads of the stud could have cleaned up the top threads in the block. Idk ARP sent me a replacement stud but I had already gotten a new set.

Also how should I find an oil leak with the motor out of the car on a stand. I have no clue where it's coming from. When I would drive it oil would just be everywhere but it was weird, I never had to add any the level was ok. Seems like it was just spraying a thin mist out of somewhere or the timing belt (no cover) was throwing that shit everywhere.

snm95ls · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2013, 10:30:02 AM »

Quote from: HiProfile on June 28, 2010, 10:58:18 AM

Quote from: jabberwock on June 27, 2010, 08:38:24 PM
Gay... I hope they do something about it. I really don't know what I could have done wrong, considering they were previously torqued to spec and worked fine. The stud in question was in just as far as all the others so $:-\$

We're talking about steel, not some exotic alloy. Pull it past it's yeild strength, and it's junk. It's specifically the point where it changes from elastic deformation (rebounds) to plastic deformation (permanent stretch). That's the reason you can't reuse stock head bolts on Hondas. Crank it a tad further (past ultimate strength), and it changes from loading the material around it to "necking" like shown. I'm not a metalurgist, but I would take a guess that the process that makes ARP's strong also raises the yeild strength much closer to the ultimate & breaking strength. Good if you don't overtorque them...

As for as other HS's, I want to say GE or AEBS had them. Maybe another, but it probably depends on the motor. Whatever they were, I think they were also had ball-ends for Hondas so they'd touch the bottom of the hole. Some people put a ball bearing below ARP's when they worry they'll walk out of the hole (finger-tight in hole).

BTW disregard my speculation above, I know what the problem is. Peniswhistles who can't use a camera's MACRO MODE to save their lives tend to over-torque headstuds.

You can't reuse Honda head bolts eh? On certain ones that may be the case, but certainly not with the Honduh engines most of us are playing with.

Lol!

I like the GE stud design better, but the ball bearing idea for ARPS is a solid one as well. Hadn't thought of that.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2013, 01:11:32 PM »

Honda bolts are intended to be replaced every use, doesn't mean they won't work more than once

Joseph Davis · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2013, 02:39:13 PM »

Quote from: jabberwock on May 13, 2013, 04:37:59 PM

Quote from: Joseph Davis on May 13, 2013, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: Joseph Davis on June 28, 2010, 11:10:27 AM

HiProfile · « **Reply #28 on:** August 12, 2013, 11:45:08 PM »

Did ARP send a new stud or a new kit? I'm needing a 2nd h22 set, maybe I could borrow your pic...

Quote from: jabberwock on May 13, 2013, 03:29:49 PM

Bump for relevance. Taking "new" motor apart to figure put why my engine bay was getting sprayed with oil.

I didnt know iphones had macro mode.

They do - it's called don't hold the phone 3" from the object.

jabberwock · « **Reply #29 on:** August 13, 2013, 12:54:16 AM »

A stud.

And fuck you.

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Author Topic: When you talk about ARP fastener stretch vs torque... (Read 8051 times)