:::RHMT::: Real Home Made Turbo

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Daspoop/Trevor YOU WILL BE MISSED, RIP (link)  :'(

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?  (Read 8406 times)

Phate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659

So my friend's got an elantra.  Kinda cheap feeling car in some ways, but overall not bad at all.  The motors in them are actually not too bad, but there doesn't really seem to be much out there in the way of engine management.  Plenty of turbo and supercharger hardware, but I'm not sure what they run for management.  If we can find decent management, we are probably gonna show it a few pounds of boost.

Car has:  2.0L DOHC I4
MAF with a little bit of headroom (although the older ones were speed-density on the same engine)
gay returnless fuel system that doesn't let you run an FMU
Was designed by former Starcraft: Brood War tournament runner-up

The only piggybacks I've seen used are the SMT-6 and unichip setups with additional injectors, and even additional injectors activated via hobb's switch.  Seems kinda ghetto.  Mostly wondering if anyone's dealt with a boosted elantra or tiburon.

http://
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 12:03:22 AM by Phate »
Logged
It never ceases to confuse me that people think this is a car site.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/overdrive14/2vkkmt3.png

Robb

  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4624
  • Meat Popsicle
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 09:32:47 AM »

What year elantra?
Logged

blowoff valves are for pussies.

Phate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 11:33:35 AM »

What year elantra?

2004, first year they switched them over to a MAF.
Logged
It never ceases to confuse me that people think this is a car site.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/overdrive14/2vkkmt3.png

slappynuts

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2010, 06:38:53 AM »

I looked into tuning that ECU for a while.No matter what I did I could not get galletto to comunicate with that ecu.The ecu in that thing seems to be a korean bosch motronic ecu knockoff without an external eprom.There is a provision on the board for an external eprom however.

So here is what you need to do. Put the processor in boot mode and dump everything. Then toggle it to read from the external eprom.Then you need an adaptor for the 44pin PLCC chip to some sort of 16bit EEPROM.

Or rip that shit out and put in a haltech platinum sprint 500.
Logged

Phate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2010, 09:25:24 AM »

Wow, thanks hyundai.  I figured the ECU would basically be a ripoff of some other manufacturer's hardware.

Haltech or another standalone sounds a bit out of our price range for the time being.  We might just put boltons and a zex wet 50 shot on it and call it good.  Should still be pretty fun.

Although I might grab an ECU out of one of these from the junkyard next time I go to screw with.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 09:28:16 AM by Phate »
Logged
It never ceases to confuse me that people think this is a car site.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/overdrive14/2vkkmt3.png

92CXyD

  • Twincharged Smeghead
  • Global Moderator
  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6789
  • I look around and all I see is Smegheads
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2010, 11:10:40 AM »

Convert to a obd1 Honda p28.  ;D

If it can be to toyotas I can not see it not working for a Hyundai. :yes:

dvst8r

  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3737
  • Unobtainium
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2010, 11:18:04 AM »

Convert to a obd1 Honda p28.  ;D

If it can be to toyotas I can not see it not working for a Hyundai. :yes:

Have to convert from maf to map first.
Logged
There are two kinds of people: Sheep and sharks. Sharks are winners and they don'#039#039t look back '#039#039cause they don'#039#039t have necks. Necks are for sheep.

92CXyD

  • Twincharged Smeghead
  • Global Moderator
  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 6789
  • I look around and all I see is Smegheads
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2010, 12:20:16 PM »

Convert to a obd1 Honda p28.  ;D

If it can be to toyotas I can not see it not working for a Hyundai. :yes:

Have to convert from maf to map first.

That should be easy if using part of a honda harness. ;D

Joseph Davis

  • Verbal Assault Technician
  • Moderator
  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34733
  • Eugenics prevents retards like widebody93
    • TURBO THIS
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2010, 12:23:49 PM »

I'm somewhat confident that's another permutation of the Evo motor.  You might be able to swap one in, but it'd require some research before you pull the trigger.

kgx

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 256
  • MR2fag
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2010, 03:39:52 PM »

^that's what i was thinking. i wonder how close the cam/crank triggers are. DSM hardware might be an easier swap than honda hardware.

either way, i think that's your answer- find cheap programmable hardware and figure out what signals it needs to see.
Logged

t_cel_t

  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3147
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2010, 04:15:03 PM »

i know you guys are against it, for some unknown reason, but a megasquirt could click right into the harness.
Logged
malone labe

I think all cop cars need to have turbo. nbspnbsp Then they would understand the necessity of putting your foot down and how uncontrollable the urge is to fucking rail on that shit.

Robb

  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4624
  • Meat Popsicle
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2010, 04:44:13 PM »

That's the bastard vw ecu. Hang it up. Might as well get a standalone, or find lancer harness/ecu/sensors and swap what hyundai didn't use.
Logged

blowoff valves are for pussies.

Phate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 09:34:12 PM »

That's the bastard vw ecu. Hang it up. Might as well get a standalone, or find lancer harness/ecu/sensors and swap what hyundai didn't use.

I take it this is determined by it being a ripoff of a bosch motronic, without an external EEPROM?
Logged
It never ceases to confuse me that people think this is a car site.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/overdrive14/2vkkmt3.png

DasPoop

  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1761
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2010, 10:24:22 PM »

if its a maf car can you run a bigger dia maf and larger injectors much the same way you run a 2g maf and 550cc injectors on a dsm. are hyundai mafs still mitsu units? how about bigger injectors and an afc? i know its not ideal but sure easier than ripping everything out for a stand alone.
Logged
Na mike:"quotquotthe one i had was a real bbw, not just a fat chick, but a huge fat chick"quotquot

Joseph Davis

  • Verbal Assault Technician
  • Moderator
  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34733
  • Eugenics prevents retards like widebody93
    • TURBO THIS
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2010, 10:43:19 PM »

So your logic is since it's loosely related to a DSM it'll be okay to get the load axis completely fucked in a manner that advances timing for the sake of an AFR, and let the KS worry about it?

I'd rather have an MS, sorry.

FYI, my MS hatred is only partially the limitations and quirks of the small handful I have seen, and partly the cobbled together mess the cars are.  I'm a big fan of DIY, and if it's an "I turbocharged my car for $63.25" sort of affair of course it rocks, but the MS mentality generally results in a grand producing the $63.25 result with a layer of conceit.  Guess what?  I'm right which is why MS never caught on like Crome did for Hondas.  Sure is some potential there but it'll be a while before it manifests.

DasPoop

  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1761
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2010, 10:58:23 PM »

So your logic is since it's loosely related to a DSM it'll be okay to get the load axis completely fucked in a manner that advances timing for the sake of an AFR, and let the KS worry about it?
O0


A larger maf and larger injectors plus afc to make smaller adjustments wont skew it as much as using larger injectors and an afc to pull it back. if the maf still a bit of head room say 3 psi i would think if you paired all these together you could run 6-7 and still allow for decent timing and the ks not going crazy.

Also iifc i saw someplace a electric fmu for returnless cars or at least fords that alters the pwm to the pumps under boost for more fuel pressure. 
Logged
Na mike:"quotquotthe one i had was a real bbw, not just a fat chick, but a huge fat chick"quotquot

Phate

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2010, 01:27:26 AM »

Also iifc i saw someplace a electric fmu for returnless cars or at least fords that alters the pwm to the pumps under boost for more fuel pressure. 

I've thought about something like that.  I could easily make a box to do just that, using a cheap microcontroller.  The issue is that these engines really like keeping things at 14.7:1, and will aggressively pull fuel to stay there.

Actually, if they had a faster processor, I could probably run the whole engine with one of the basic stamp robotics boards I have laying around.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2010, 01:42:40 AM by Phate »
Logged
It never ceases to confuse me that people think this is a car site.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a380/overdrive14/2vkkmt3.png

DmC

  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3036
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2010, 02:07:44 AM »

Also iifc i saw someplace a electric fmu for returnless cars or at least fords that alters the pwm to the pumps under boost for more fuel pressure. 

I've thought about something like that.  I could easily make a box to do just that, using a cheap microcontroller.  The issue is that these engines really like keeping things at 14.7:1, and will aggressively pull fuel to stay there.

Actually, if they had a faster processor, I could probably run the whole engine with one of the basic stamp robotics boards I have laying around.
It's called a boostapump from KenneBell. Basiclly all it is is an amplifier that feeds the fuel pump a steady 18v and switched on or off from a hobs switch. We throw the instructions in the trash and pocket the hobbs switch for possible use elsewhere then just wire the boostapump to run all time after that just tune the maf transfer function to suit the new fuel flow.
And like you said the ecu's aggresively fight for 14.7 and with no way to tune the maf curve the ecu's going to be pulling 40%ish fuel for a minute or two and then decide the maf is junk and fail it.  ???  this is all ford dodge and gm stuff I'm talking about if I had to tune that hyundai it's already been mentioned look into fitting some evo hardware.
Logged

slappynuts

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 485
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2010, 09:38:05 AM »

Also iifc i saw someplace a electric fmu for returnless cars or at least fords that alters the pwm to the pumps under boost for more fuel pressure. 

I've thought about something like that.  I could easily make a box to do just that, using a cheap microcontroller.  The issue is that these engines really like keeping things at 14.7:1, and will aggressively pull fuel to stay there.

Actually, if they had a faster processor, I could probably run the whole engine with one of the basic stamp robotics boards I have laying around.

You are 100% on the money as far as what the ecu will do. We had a turbo tiburon at the shop that was a total bitch and the owner tried ever piggyback known to man with the exact same results.

And for the honda leg humpers  ;D Good luck fitting a honda distributor to that motor. If you want to fit a reasonable tunable ecu to the car I think the early 1.8t A4 may almost be a plug and play.lol  The other option would be a OBD1 BMW 319 from 93-95. You will have to put up with the mousetrap AFM though which will suck balls. I believe I may have a defenition file for tunerpro for this ecu as well (I built and tuned one of these).
Logged

Joseph Davis

  • Verbal Assault Technician
  • Moderator
  • Certified OG
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 34733
  • Eugenics prevents retards like widebody93
    • TURBO THIS
Re: Any decent management for hyundai Beta2 4 cyl (Tiburon/Elantra)?
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2010, 10:39:22 AM »

So your logic is since it's loosely related to a DSM it'll be okay to get the load axis completely fucked in a manner that advances timing for the sake of an AFR, and let the KS worry about it?
O0


A larger maf and larger injectors plus afc to make smaller adjustments wont skew it as much as using larger injectors and an afc to pull it back.

100% incorrect. 

For the same size "larger injector" you hit your desired AFR at precisely the same MAF voltage (or frequency) whether you arrive at that voltage via AFC or a larger/recalibrated MAF.  Your ignition timing is going to be the exact same.  Either method is dumb as shit, divorces the load axis, and is inferior to MS.


And for the honda leg humpers  ;D Good luck fitting a honda distributor to that motor.

Wrong thread, Doctor B.  That's not a motor I'd fit a Honda distributor to - they have their place, but it's not on everything.
Pages: [1]   Go Up