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[fork]

So I want to get a wideband for tuning my car with a stupid baller quick fuel carb.  It has been perfect for a few years but just started acting up and running rich as fuck. 

Any way I want to get a decent cheap wideband.  I haven't looked at them much up until now, but at a cursory glance I'm thinking the LM1 the newer ones seem like they will be $$$ once I get every thing I need.  I was also looking at  a diy from 14point7.  I think all I really need is afr and RPM I'd like logging as opposed to just a read out, it looks like the 14point7 unit will pick up RPM right from the coil while others need an inductive pickup.  I've also thought about putting a vacuum or map sensor in the car with a 5V supply to help tuning.  So what do you guys think.

[asx]

With my limited knowledge of carbs id assume you'd only need an LC-1.
You've got idle jets for idling (duh) and low throttle and mains for everything else. Yeah? watch your lowspeed AFR and jet accordingly, watch your highspeed and jet accordingly, do throttle transitions to set your accel pump and tweak your idle with whatever that shits called.

Since the magic of carbs should keep your AFR relatively constant for each set you should be able to just glance at the gage.

Or I'm totally full of shit, eitherway. Its better than tuning with EGTs and timeslips

[Joseph Davis]

LC-1 is annoying as a piece of tuning gear.  Hardwired into a car that will never have any battery voltage problems, with a gauge, it does alright.

I have no experience with the unit, but between price point and features the 14point7.com SLC looks VERY FUCKING INTERESTING.

PLX or NGK AFX are your best no frills bets.  I'd say SLC, but again no experience.

[fork]

the 14point7 looks to be a pretty good deal and can even log a few 0-5v inputs but the quality and support dont seem that great.

I noticed this on their message board posted by the seller maker guy.

When the AFR is richer than 10.26 (0.68 Lambda) the unit will show "62.24".

there are also reports of the unit showing 20 when the afr is below 10.  He says  he will fix it in the next firmware but you have
to send the unit back to get programmed, that seems bogus.

[jabberwock]

He probably has you send them back because so many nubs used to lose power to the unit during a firmware update and tank the old JAWs. 

Alan To is legit.  I had problems with mine, put it in a box for 6 months.  He released 2 or 3 new versions in that time, supposedly with a free upgrade along the line.  I brought it up to him and he had no problem sending me an updated unit already assembled when my original unit was a DIY.  His old stuff used to have grounding offset issues, but that could have been my car.  I had the thing wired to the tstat housing with my ecu and still had an unpredictable offset.

[theidealone]

LC-1 is annoying as a piece of tuning gear.  Hardwired into a car that will never have any battery voltage problems, with a gauge, it does alright.

I fucking HATE my LC-1. I would rather have an AEM unit than this piece of shit.

[snm95ls]

lol.

[turbob16hatch]

LC-1 is annoying as a piece of tuning gear.  Hardwired into a car that will never have any battery voltage problems, with a gauge, it does alright.

I fucking HATE my LC-1. I would rather have an AEM unit than this piece of shit.

My friends lc-1 worked for years without a hiccup. I do find it interesting how so many people have issues. As his seemed perfectly fine.

[ratcityrex]

I love my plx m300. Solid as a rock! Only problem Ive ever had is I had the screen overheat b4 because I had it mounted in my heater control panel and I had the heat on full blast for like 3 fucking hours. Let it cool down for 30 or so min and it fired right back up and havent had a problem with it since. That was 3 years ago. Ive been rocking the same unit for over 5+ years

[snm95ls]

LC-1 is annoying as a piece of tuning gear.  Hardwired into a car that will never have any battery voltage problems, with a gauge, it does alright.

I fucking HATE my LC-1. I would rather have an AEM unit than this piece of shit.

My friends lc-1 worked for years without a hiccup. I do find it interesting how so many people have issues. As his seemed perfectly fine.

Once I learned the ins and outs of using one, i haven't had a single issue with either of my LC-1s.

Hence the lol earlier.

[fork]

so Im thinking do i really need some fancy controller if I dont want logging cant i just give a sensor 12 or 5 v or whatever it takes and read the output with one of those scaleable voltmeter displays?  I think thats the RHMT way

[snm95ls]

so Im thinking do i really need some fancy controller if I dont want logging cant i just give a sensor 12 or 5 v or whatever it takes and read the output with one of those scaleable voltmeter displays?  I think thats the RHMT way

Gotta have the controller in order for the sensor to actually work.  The controllers aren't just for outputting data for logging.

Heater control is essential to accuracy and longevity of the sensor if memory serves me correctly.

[PhilStubbs]

^^^
what that guy said. There is a lot more to it than just 12v for heat and 5v for signal.

Also, I am an avid lc-1 supporter. The only time I ever had an issue, innovate fixed it out of warranty for free.

[theidealone]

I did buy my LC-1 w/ XD16 used. And it works fine, through the gauge, or direct serial port. Which is great, because I use NepTune, which allows for direct port logging. But through the ECU, it reads some fucked up narrowband-like voltages. In lambda, it pretty much will only read .98-1.10 or something like that.

I have no idea why it sends the correct voltage readings to the gauge and direct serial. And yes, I have both the yellow and brown hooked up. Forget which is which, but narrow is hooked up to the stock input for o2, and the wide ouput is hooked up to ELD. I even switched the inputs in NepTune, and messed with the calibrations through Log Works.

It just sucks, because it makes On Board Logging worthless. I have to have my laptop hooked up, and hit buttons after my burnout.

Ill be going with an AEM or PLX next year.

[snm95ls]

Sounds like user error.

You do know that both outputs have programmable voltage outputs right?

I guess you could have an analog out that is burned out, but it would be odd if it was always putting out .45-/.55 volts.

There is no a correct voltage reading going to the XD16 as it uses Innovate's serial protocol.

[leed]

4+ years on my PLX.  Compact, easy to install for tuning, reliable.

[d112crzy]

4+ years on my PLX.  Compact, easy to install for tuning, reliable.

I had a good run of 5 yrs on my m300. Finally shit the bed a few weeks ago. Thinking of an lc-1 without a gauge for cheapness.

[ratcityrex]

OG,s use plx! 

[t_cel_t]

my lc1 is working pretty good now
dedicated power and ground strait to the battery are a must, before that i was about ready to give up on it.

[snm95ls]

my lc1 is working pretty good now
dedicated power and ground strait to the battery are a must, before that i was about ready to give up on it.

Where were you trying to get power before?

It has worked off of the ECU power for me before, but after a discussion about how the current draw variations could mess with the accuracy, I have always run a dedicated power and ground.

[HiProfile]

As stated, you don't really have to get the RPM. You adjust the jets for AFR's in the WOT rpm's you want your max power. If you're trying to diagnose a rich condition, you'll probably only need rough rpm values (eyeball them). You won't find weird spikes like a bad basemap (fuel injection). If it suddenly went rich, resizing the jets probably won't help.

Once I learned the ins and outs of using one, i haven't had a single issue with either of my LC-1s.

Same here. The only issue I had was trying to daisy-chain the LC-1 with an SSI-4. No matter what, the LC-1 would not appear. I read later on that can happen when using the same ground for both. Regardless, I just ran the LC-1 output into the SSI-4, set the logging parameters in the software, and went to town on the 3.4L Haltech'd Fiero, albeit only up to 5psi.

I also had an old M-300 (stolen), and now 2 TechEdge 2Y DIY boxes in my cars. IMO those are pretty cool (6 inputs, 3 can be thermocouples w/icepoint comp.), except I always have issues getting them to connect to a PC. I use a Moated O-Meter with all of them when I feel like it, and it works great if you keep the temps above 40F. That's apparently a known issue with the O-meter.

I'd have got some 14point7 boxes, but when I decided to get them the owner disappeared. Luckly I didn't send the money.