Topic: Our cutting shop - starting to take shape (Read 163235 times)

Passenger · « **Reply #60 on:** December 02, 2011, 01:41:12 PM »

If I was going to do it over I would buy a Kaeser rotary screw, I tired to do that initially, but our local Kaeser dealer fired a bunch of people and was having some problems, bla bla bla. But they have something ridiculous like a 10 year warranty as long as they do the annual service ( I think around $200-300).

I was desperate for more air so a local shop sold me their backup quincy 20hp rotary and Hankinson dryer, then I grabbed a 400 gallon receiver at an auction, then Kaeser decided to start answering their phones and sold me some aluminum airlines so I got those and slapped the system together. I can't run a complete loop at the moment so I have another 60gallon tank at the end of the system.

Including labor and wiring I think I did the whole system for under 20k, not bad for a reliable 100cfm@90psi of clean dry air.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #61 on:** December 02, 2011, 03:09:11 PM »

Adam, can you cut me a hx35 exhaust flange without the wastegate hole in it?

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #62 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:05:06 PM »

Sure, just need to get this bastard compressor running again though - each waterjet uses 30cfm and the compressor we rented today - blows. We traced the problem down to the motor finally gave up. $2200 later, we have a new baldor motor here being installed right now.

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #63 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:08:54 PM »

Dave I was drooling over the KAESER units myself. The lead time from everybody really killed my immediate upgrade thoughts tho. I dont want to buy a used rotary compressor if I can avoid it and 4-6 weeks lead time is a lot time to be down. So we are going to fix this one, then order a replacement machine and move this old one to our shipping warehouse. Going to arm the girls with pneumatic staple guns - it will be scarey.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #64 on:** December 02, 2011, 07:11:33 PM »

Adam, let me know when your up and running and ill shoot you a payment

Passenger · « **Reply #65 on:** December 02, 2011, 08:11:05 PM »

Quote from: mandrel-bends on December 02, 2011, 07:08:54 PM

Dave I was drooling over the KAESER units myself. The lead time from everybody really killed my immediate upgrade thoughts tho. I dont want to buy a used rotary compressor if I can avoid it and 4-6 weeks lead time is a lot time to be down. So we are going to fix this one, then order a replacement machine and move this old one to our shipping warehouse. Going to arm the girls with pneumatic staple guns - it will be scarey.

I hear you, I didn't want a used compressor either, but same problem, lead times. I needed something RFN and this unit had squat for hours on it as it was emergency backup only. When I get some more hours on this and get another hmc cell system I'll buy a new Kaeser airend and revert this Quincy to a backup. Parts for this quincy are a heartbreaker, a full service, belts, two filters and oil is $1000, no labor, but the oil is good for 8000hrs and filters around 3k so at least you get good life out of them.

rawr · « **Reply #66 on:** December 03, 2011, 09:16:27 PM »

You guys have machine shops. Why dont you make your own damn compressors

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #67 on:** December 04, 2011, 01:41:16 AM »

I would rather push a couple days revenue into a new compressor then spend 3 months trying to design, machine and assemble something that someone else can do better and more then likely would end up costing more then it's worth.

rawr · « **Reply #68 on:** December 04, 2011, 03:55:30 AM »

But you could be like "fuuuuuuck yeah i built this compressor", or you could be like "Oh yes, I feel like I have made an excellent choice in purchasing this compressor. The time I saved purchasing this compressor allowed for me to use my time making widgets for other people and to run my business more efficiently. I feel complete."

Up to you, bros.

Passenger · « **Reply #69 on:** December 04, 2011, 06:05:29 AM »

First of all I wouldn't ever build a commodity piece of equipment unless it was something I was planning on marketing.

But if I really had nothing to do I absolutely could machine a case, a couple rotors and shafts and roll my own. But it would cost more then anything I could buy. That said I was planning building my own air receiver, and some sanitary stainless air lines but the tank popped up the day I was going to order materials and it turned out SS lines were going to cost a bit more then the Aluminum lines which are much better suited to the job so I just bought them instead.

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #70 on:** December 04, 2011, 05:27:42 PM »

Got the big ingersol back up and running finally. The old motor drew 37 amps at 480V. The new one draws 23. So atleast there was one positive from this thing taking a crap. Never realised how many machines and tools use air until we didn't have it.

Ill throw that hx flange up tomorrow. Gotta run a rush job for monday that has the machine booked up for 13 hours today. Probably wont be sleeping much tonight. Need to get the jet edge cutting, trying to run all this work on one machine is stupid crazy.

ratcityrex · « **Reply #71 on:** December 04, 2011, 07:25:06 PM »

Sweet! Thanks Adam.

glustic · « **Reply #72 on:** December 05, 2011, 02:10:56 AM »

God damm. That entire thread went clear the fuck over my head

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #73 on:** December 05, 2011, 11:30:54 PM »

That hx flange with deleted gate opening is up.

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #74 on:** December 09, 2011, 07:16:58 PM »

Some progress.

Finished up the tank. Sand blasted it and painted it with two coats of Dupont Industrial coatings color matched to the machine.

About 85% done with all the wiring now. What a pain.

DSharp · « **Reply #75 on:** December 31, 2011, 03:20:49 PM »

are you going to leave your ball screws exposed? water and abrasives are not good for ball screws

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #76 on:** January 01, 2012, 01:08:20 AM »

No. There are covers that encapsulate the screws and blowers that maintain a positive pressure on the screws to keep abrasives out. The screws remain exposed until we dial the slave encoder into square with their setup program.

HiProfile · « **Reply #77 on:** January 02, 2012, 11:43:15 AM »

Take some old engine blocks, change the valve springs to be one-way valves (soft spring and a limiter), put check valves in the spark plug holes (or have delta double-lobe the intake cam), then hook up a big fat 440v 3-phase motor to the flywheel. Sure it may waste some energy, but people have done this for years and they work. If nothing else, it would make for a high-cfm backup unit.

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #78 on:** January 02, 2012, 04:49:35 PM »

or do that to 4 of the cylinders and use the other 4 to run it. no electricity needed. lol

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #79 on:** January 04, 2012, 02:54:13 AM »

The only engines I have sitting around as backups are a BMW S85 and a N62 in the event our cars go boom. I dont think either would make good sacraficial air compressors.

I did pickup a spare 30hp IR head when this thing went south just in case. We really depend on air it seems.

On a low note, I accidentally cut off the tip of my finger loading the water jet tonight with 1" plate by myself. I was being a bit too clever with the crane, working night shift alone, and I thought I had more clearance. Plate landed on my finger that was just about an 1/8" over the top of slat. Really gross. Hurt like a bitch. Really need to get a vacuum lifter for the crane to to avoid this in the future. Getting the chains out is super dangerous.

On a high note, I just cut our 165th nest of parts since we opened the cutting shop. We average ~32 parts per nest. Which brings baby waterjet to a part count of >5280 parts since we turned it on 3-4 months ago (if even that long). She has run on average 450 hours a month. ROI on this thing has been incredible.

d-rail · « **Reply #80 on:** January 04, 2012, 11:29:32 AM »

You dont realize how much you use air until your pump locks up and it smokes the belt and your buddy who locked it up replaces the belt(not looking into what he did) and turns it back on and makes awesome shavings in your pump...... then you go to use it and its fucked. I need troubleshooting friends instead of trouble friends I guess. Thatd be trouble shooting on my part

PhilStubbs · « **Reply #81 on:** January 04, 2012, 05:40:27 PM »

That sucks about your finger. Sometimes it takes something like that to realize the danger of the things we do complacently.

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #82 on:** January 05, 2012, 07:23:01 PM »

Thinking about getting a vacuum lifter of some sort. Found out that two other people here have cut themselves relatively badly loading the damn machine and didnt tell me.

Maybe this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anver-M150M-Vacuum-Plate-Lifter-w-12-cup-Used-z030-/280750885770?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415e0e8b8a

Or maybe this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANVER-Self-Contained-Vacuum-Sheet-Lifter-600-LB-Capacity-13-x-4-156-x-48-/230702168034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b6ebb7e2

92CXyD · « **Reply #83 on:** January 05, 2012, 09:03:19 PM »

Quote from: mandrel-bends on January 05, 2012, 07:23:01 PM

Thinking about getting a vacuum lifter of some sort. Found out that two other people here have cut themselves relatively badly loading the damn machine and didnt tell me.

Maybe this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Anver-M150M-Vacuum-Plate-Lifter-w-12-cup-Used-z030-/280750885770?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415e0e8b8a

Or maybe this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANVER-Self-Contained-Vacuum-Sheet-Lifter-600-LB-Capacity-13-x-4-156-x-48-/230702168034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b6ebb7e2

Is the wt. capacity enough for plate your dealing with?

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #84 on:** January 05, 2012, 09:42:38 PM »

Not looking like it. Just ran some calc's on large plate weights... I guess we need more like a 1500lb capacity minimum. Hmm. What to do....

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #85 on:** January 17, 2012, 11:15:26 PM »

Looking for suggestions on a large turning center.

Requirements:

8" Bar capacity through spindle
25" swing min
800 RPM min
Hydraulic Chuck

We are building a new building to house this machine and a few machining centers so 40,000-85,000 lb machines are OK.

So far I've identified a few:

>200k range:
Daewoo Puma 700

100-200k range:

<100k range:
Warner Swasey SC-25 or SC-28

Suggestions?

Our current supplier runs the majority of our parts on a PUMA 700ML and 400L

Passenger · « **Reply #86 on:** January 18, 2012, 02:25:19 PM »

*Edited because I am a retard

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #87 on:** January 18, 2012, 03:50:36 PM »

Most of the parts are 3-5" long, but are 4-8" wide. It's a lot of pipe to pipe and tube to tube couplings. Billet heavy wall reducers and unions. Specialty alloy stuff. Nothing particularly special. We had company that was doing these by cutting down 12" pieces of material and then turning out 3 pieces of product but it lefts tons of dead rems and was a real waste of money. The current company bar feeds most of the parts I believe.

We also need to be able to build tooling in house. Our monthly tooling bills is staggering for just maintenance items (new mandrels, wiper tipers, etc)... Not to mention everytime I need to buy a new tool set I'm looking at 10k for a small diameter, and 20k+ for a large diameter. I'm also paying out of the butt for waterjet maintenaince items which are just mostly turned parts.

Passenger · « **Reply #88 on:** January 18, 2012, 04:02:56 PM »

Quote from: mandrel-bends on January 18, 2012, 03:50:36 PM

Most of the parts are 3-5" long, but are 4-8" wide. It's a lot of pipe to pipe and tube to tube couplings. Billet heavy wall reducers and unions. Specialty alloy stuff. Nothing particularly special. We had company that was doing these by cutting down 12" pieces of material and then turning out 3 pieces of product but it lefts tons of dead rems and was a real waste of money. The current company bar feeds most of the parts I believe.

We also need to be able to build tooling in house. Our monthly tooling bills is staggering for just maintenance items (new mandrels, wiper tipers, etc)... Not to mention everytime I need to buy a new tool set I'm looking at 10k for a small diameter, and 20k+ for a large diameter. I'm also paying out of the butt for waterjet maintenaince items which are just mostly turned parts.

*Edited because I am a retard

mandrel-bends · « **Reply #89 on:** January 18, 2012, 06:04:24 PM »

All of the parts have an array of holes on the outside. The largest diameter of this type would be 8" for current product line. I could expand the couplers up into larger industrial sizes if I had the machinery.

My concern with gantry loader is the waste product. Arent you going to end up with a big rem at end of the blank because you need something to hold onto?

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Author Topic: Our cutting shop - starting to take shape (Read 163235 times)